Plant Moisture Stress - Symptoms and Solutions

90cody said:

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also , since you seem to have a good head on your shoulders, may i pass this question to you?

let me know what u think is going on ..

Setup.
Closet 2x3.5
One T5 90watt grow light
One T5 light from lowes this one has more of a yellow tone compared to the grow light which is white blue
Coco Coir mixed with cut peices of rockwool and hydroton at bottom inch to stop coir and ensure drainage
Red cups until i transfer them to either bigger buckets or switch them to dwc buckets (depending on what people think i should do, im always willing to learn)
Feed once and water twice, i wait till top soil is dry and cup is light , coco coir has good water rentention.
Im not sure if feeding is to early but i am only feeding them 250 ppm, just basic grow big fox farms ( i start with a 25ppm tap water that is sitting in clean DWC resivour)

Pictures:
1. & 2. Are the same plant, Pic 1 being a close up of what looks like a pH issue, but runoff is 6.5-6.8. This is auora indica
3. I think this one is Ice, seems healthy for the most part , not sure if i should be looking for darker green or not..
4. Seems to have mutated leaves.. not sure what is causing this..
5. Purple Power, looking healthy , one concern is the yellowing tips and grey necrosis?

Thanks in advance

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Why are you using a bloom food at all? Sorry, but from your light situation to your plant's nutritional needs, it suggests you've got everything out of balance. DWC? Another gimmick you shouldn't bother with. I wouldn't grow a dandelion in that manner. If you're doing water culture, you need a complete food like Dyna-Gro Foliage Pro, and stop pushing them with salts. Get a book on indoor plant culture and learn what makes a plant tick.

Also, don't get hung on recommended ppm values. Nobody has your garden nor are their plants in the same state of growth as yours are. Learn to read your plants and not cannabis forums.

Good luck,
UB

Uncle Ben said:

Why are you using a bloom food at all? Sorry, but from your light situation to your plant's nutritional needs, it suggests you've got everything out of balance. DWC? Another gimmick you shouldn't bother with. I wouldn't grow a dandelion in that manner. If you're doing water culture, you need a complete food like Dyna-Gro Foliage Pro, and stop pushing them with salts. Get a book on indoor plant culture and learn what makes a plant tick.

Also, don't get hung on recommended ppm values. Nobody has your garden nor are their plants in the same state of growth as yours are. Learn to read your plants and not cannabis forums.

Good luck,
UB

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Im using hydro on my bigger plant, before starting all this i was stuck on DWC because of the advantages of not having to water and much faster growing and yields, of course i know this can not be achieved if u have constant problems..

As far as the nutes im using Fox Farm and the feeding chart calls for Big bloom , on the back of the bottle it says that it can be given to the plant thru out its entire life from seedling to flower, then your GROW BIG is for veg and TIGER BLOOM is flowering.. this is my first indoor grow so i have nothing else to really go off of except my own mind of trying to read my plants which im beginning to do more and more because every reference is so far off it seems and i understand that there are so many variables.

i do have a question about lighting.. what is wrong with the lighting of these?? they are T5's which are good enuf for veg if i understand correctly..

I Appreciate the continued help and knowledge, i am definitely willing to keep learning more from you.

there are no advantages by using dwc. its the same as any other hydro method.

you gotta be patient first. then you should read a book on plant nutrition. all you need to worry about is the ingredients and the numbers, NOT the "veg" and "bloom" part. your girls need enough N to keep them green till the end and most "bloom" foods just dont have enough so we use "veg" food in flower too. you want as close to balanced as you can get. (1-1-1 plus micros) when you start to see flowers then you might up the P a tiny bit and thats it.


soil

wyteboi said:

there are no advantages by using dwc. its the same as any other hydro method.

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when i refer to my DWC i was meaning general hydro growth from my understanding grows faster then soil.

wyteboi said:

you gotta be patient first. then you should read a book on plant nutrition

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any recommendation ?

wyteboi said:

all you need to worry about is the ingredients and the numbers, NOT the "veg" and "bloom" part. your girls need enough N to keep them green till the end and most "bloom" foods just dont have enough so we use "veg" food in flower too. you want as close to balanced as you can get. (1-1-1 plus micros) when you start to see flowers then you might up the P a tiny bit and thats it

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makes sense.. defenitely need a switch of nutes.. So dyna grow as you said previously would probably be better?

my nutes:

Grow BIG:

3% NITROGEN
2% PHOSPHATE
6% POTASH
2% Calcium
0.5% Magnesium
0.02% Boron
0.05% Copper
0.1% Iron
0.05% Magnese
0.05% Zinc

Big Bloom:
0.01% NITROGEN
0.3% PHOSPHATE
0.7% POTASH

Tiger Bloom:


2% NITROGEN
8% PHOSPHATE
4% POTASH
0.5% Magnesium
0.02% Boron
0.05% Copper
0.12% Iron
0.06% Magnese
0.05% Zinc

and then i have microbrew and kangaroots and cal-mag.. all with same stuff.. so can a plant tell the difference between these different nutes like adding micro nutes to the above combination ?

have been reading "the best n-p-k" topic and it really opened my eyes to the importance of nitrogen and how these companies are pretty much just selling crap. anyway,

i have purchased dyna grow Foliage pro and Bloom..

will keep you updated, thanks for all the help UB.

Hello UB,

This is such a quality thread! It's simple and accessible, just the way best things are.

I think I've had a light or heat issue (I'm outdoors using sunlight by the way). Can you check this pics and see if it fits? Or may it be other thing?



Thank you!

that's what I think I'm looking at right now, over wet may be the answer too - help! I think they are just gonna go in the garden...

90cody said:

have been reading "the best n-p-k" topic and it really opened my eyes to the importance of nitrogen and how these companies are pretty much just selling crap. anyway,

i have purchased dyna grow Foliage pro and Bloom..

will keep you updated, thanks for all the help UB.

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i like fox farm foods myself. dyna grow just makes things a lot easier for us. you will have more control with dyna. your meters should read right with that stuff too.

i didnt read any one book, when i finally decided that i need more knowledge on nutrition i came here and met UB... read most of this thread... then read about nutrition on google for another year or so. im still learnin , but i got the basics down and it all started with the same shit UB said to begin with.
a plant dont give a fuck how it gets its food or from where , but it needs​ all essential nutes (macro and micro) and if they are all present the plant will thrive period.

hydro usually does grow a bit quicker, but thats usually just because its easier to give the plant what it needs right now, and these forums confuse the fuck outta folks so people are just putting random shit in their soil to "correct" a prob that doesnt exist. a good dirt man will grow just as quick as a water guy.

ANY plant food will serve your purpose once you learn how to use them. (you'll get 1000 mj growers tell you that MG is crap because they use urea for N and the fact is they just dont know how to use urea.)


soil

wyteboi said:

i like fox farm foods myself. dyna grow just makes things a lot easier for us. you will have more control with dyna. your meters should read right with that stuff too.

i didnt read any one book, when i finally decided that i need more knowledge on nutrition i came here and met UB... read most of this thread... then read about nutrition on google for another year or so. im still learnin , but i got the basics down and it all started with the same shit UB said to begin with.
a plant dont give a fuck how it gets its food or from where , but it needs​ all essential nutes (macro and micro) and if they are all present the plant will thrive period.

hydro usually does grow a bit quicker, but thats usually just because its easier to give the plant what it needs right now, and these forums confuse the fuck outta folks so people are just putting random shit in their soil to "correct" a prob that doesnt exist. a good dirt man will grow just as quick as a water guy.

ANY plant food will serve your purpose once you learn how to use them. (you'll get 1000 mj growers tell you that MG is crap because they use urea for N and the fact is they just dont know how to use urea.)


soil

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i appreciate the comments, i think i will continue to keep one or two DWC bucket and rest soil so i can constantly compare and increase my knowledge on both..

with fox farms it makes my water filthy, from what i read, i think its like bat guano from the Big bloom, but whatever is in the big bloom it coats the bottom of the res. and does not stay mixed in, i assume that it is still asorbed into the water none the less, i am one of the people who are not using Fox farm correctly , therefore i am having poor results from it, I know many people do very well with it.. although i dont like that none of their nutes are Nitrogen dominent, even grow big is 3-2-6 (which is the highest N containning nute)

i know if there is anything in the world that depends on so many variables, its marijuana, i realize different things work better or worse for different people, its just dialing in on your own knowledge and work ethic.

Hugo29 said:

Hello UB,

This is such a quality thread! It's simple and accessible, just the way best things are.

I think I've had a light or heat issue (I'm outdoors using sunlight by the way). Can you check this pics and see if it fits? Or may it be other thing?

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Thank you!

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They look good to me.

First timer here, if you cant already tell by looking at that pic. Crappy camera, my bad.
bagseedlings in fox farm ocean forest cut with 25% miracle grow perlite and a dab of dolomite lime. watering with ph ~6.5 tap water that has sat out for several days. have not added any nutes yet. leaves are yellowing from the tips inward. upper green leaves are droopy but look healthy, lower leaves are yellowing and curling up along the centerline of the leaf. growth has nearly stopped! very frustrating. plants are 36" from 600w metal halide bulb that is air cooled with a 240 cfm 6" exhaust. this keeps temps at 80F for 18 hours of light, and then temps drop to 70F during 6 hours of darkness. thanks in advance. constructive critisim is welcomed! thank you!

humidity is 25 - 40%
another crappy pic if it may help.

Sorry to see your seedlings in such dire conditions.. I'm a first time grower as well. I don't have any growing experience (except for my current grow. my 10 plants are just about 7 weeks old).

When I started my seedlings, for the first week or so I kept the humidity above 50% (usually 55-65%) by keeping a plastic dome-like cover over them. From time to time, I would spray the inside of the dome with water or you could also spray their trays to keep the humidity level up.

How big/tall are the "pots" are you using? They kinda like a bird's nest (no offense) I've just never seen anything like it. (I'm sure drainage is not an issue =)
What type of Miracle Grow did you use? On the label, did you notice if it had "time release nutes"? What was the N/P/K ratio (nitrogen/phosphorus/potassium)
REMEMBER, I am a first timer also! But IF I were in your shoes, I would try raising the light to 40" or 44" just in case. And I'd keep a close eye on them. (But I doubt it's a light issue. Light being 36" sounds reasonable)

My guess is it's something in the soil mix/ some type of nutrient issues. But I'm sure someone with more growing experience will shed some light on your situation.. just hang in there, and keep checking back. Search the forums too, lots of great info on lights, soils, deficiencies, etc... best wishes on your grow

Thanks for the response. My pots are about 3" tall and they are made of coconut fiber (i think). I randomly grabbed them at the hydro store when I bought my soil. Also, the miracle grow is just plain perlite, with a fractional NPK value of .04:.01:.06, so not much nutes in there. It does not say anything about time release. I was hoping that the FFOF soil would feed them for now. indoorgrowbro do you grow in soil? What is the make up/brand/ratio of your mix? 3 of 8 of my plants are now pretty much dead, no considerable growth for the last 2 weeks. first time isn't going so well for me.

I germinated 10 bag seeds in wet paper towel (between 2-3 days) Then planted into soil, Fox Farm Ocean Forest with a little extra per-lite mixed in. In the seedling stage I didn't water my plants too often, BUT I did make sure to keep the environment above 50% humidity (mostly around 55-65%) Temps were kept around 75-85ºF. They've been getting 18 hours LIGHT / 6 hours DARK since day one. I've been giving them tap water. For my setup/environment, I found that the best time to water my plants was about 5 - 10 mins before LIGHTS OFF, this way the soil didn't dry up as quick. The entire pot is able to saturate really well. No additional nutes/ferts have been given to them, just tap water and the soil.

At about 3 weeks old, I transplanted all 10 plants from little 4"x4"x6" containers into 3 gallon pots. At about 6 weeks old (about 1 week ago), I transplanted 4 of the biggest/strongest looking plants into 5 gallon containers... I wanted to make sure they had enough time to re-coop/adapt to their new pots before I switched their light cycle, which will be very soon...

Don't worry, take it as a learning experience and make sure you apply what you learned on your next grow ___

Interesting. Do you remember how tall they were at 3 weeks old? My 8 are now pretty forgone, I don't think there is much hope for them. My next option is to purchase some clones from the local dispensaries. I guess I will have to go that route for now. I am disappointed, but it was just bagseed, so it could be much worse. Nice to hear that you use FFOF with perlite too. When did you start giving them nutes, if any?

Sounds like your grow is going good. What kind of lamp are you using for veg?

It's kinda hard to say exactly how tall they were, because when I transplanted them into 3 gallon containers, I buried part of the their stems for more support. I've been using CFLs since day one. And the only food my plants have had is whatever was in the Fox Farms (no extra liquid nutes have been added). These are also from bagseed that a friend gave me. =)


This is a pic at 3 weeks old. After the transplant and with their stems buried some, they varied in height from 3inches - 5inches tall

Excellent pics. They look healthy alright. Here are mine at 3 weeks. Definitely stunted growth. I have moved them back to the floros because the leaves are firm and soil went dry very quickly. I think 600w was too much. Do you think they can recover? It probably isn't even worth it now, since they will be stunted and yield will suffer... F$%*.


I JUST watered them with straight H2O, so ya, the soil looks wet. But they needed it, soil was dry and pots were light.

This is one of my seedlings at 2 weeks old... about 4 or 5 days before this pic was taken, it looked a lot worse. The seedling was bent over to the side, and those bottom leaves that are curved were in terrible condition. There was no new growth showing on top and I thought for sure it would be the first one to die on me. Eventually, the bottom leaves that were curved fell off and all new growth was looking a lot better..

At 7 weeks old now, this plant is probably doing better than my others. Don't lose all faith just yet.. between all the horror stories I've read on these forums, and all the videos I've come across I have realized one thing; Cannabis is a very resilient plant.. A lot of growers pin point there problem/issue, take action and their plants bounce back; with time. Just be patient and keep searching these forums for other growers who are sharing the same problems you are. And I'm sure a much more experienced grower will show up and provide you with more info than I can...

I also recommend keeping a personal journal with every single detail you possibly can.. very, very important to keep everything recorded, that way you can go back and check what worked for you, and what didn't.. take daily pics of your plants with temps/humidity level/etc, water ph, light distance, etc... Best wishes, bro!

REMEMBER: I'm a first timer as well, but let's figure this out together. Learning experience for both of us...

chronicis said:

...bagseedlings in fox farm ocean forest cut with 25% miracle grow perlite and a dab of dolomite lime...

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Well, since we both started in the same soil and my plants didn't show those signs, I'd rule that out... And the perlite you used had very small N/P/K values, so probably not that..I've seen dolomite mentioned in some of the threads and from what I remember it helps keep the soil ph balanced, so that's a good thing (though I'm not sure how much is recommended, or if one can overdo it)

chronicis said:

...upper green leaves are droopy but look healthy...

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From what I've experienced with my plants, if the stem is pointing up or straight out from the main stalk with leaf kinda droopy (but still looking healthy green), it's usually a sign of over-watering... And when the entire leaf and stem just seem completely lifeless (looking like it's just ran a marathon and is about to fall over) then it's a sign of under-watering.

chronicis said:

...growth has nearly stopped! very frustrating. plants are 36" from 600w metal halide bulb that is air cooled with a 240 cfm 6" exhaust. this keeps temps at 80F for 18 hours of light, and then temps drop to 70F during 6 hours of darkness...

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One of my plants stop showing growth at about 2½ weeks old. I transplanted at 3 weeks into 3 gallon containers. When I removed my seedling, sure enough it's roots were already hitting the bottom and had completely wrapped around inside the container. Perhaps you roots are looking for more area under the surface to create a secure anchor for it's main stem/stalk.

Did the guy at the store recommend those for growing your seedlings in? I'd just be worried myself that the roots might get tangled in it (it may not even be an issue at all though)

chronicis said:

..Definitely stunted growth. I have moved them back to the floros because the leaves are firm and soil went dry very quickly. I think 600w was too much. Do you think they can recover? It probably isn't even worth it now, since they will be stunted and yield will suffer... F$%*.

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Going back to floros, I'd say good move.. Who knows, they may show improvement after a few days. After about 2 weeks of healthy growth, stick'em back under that MH. hang in there, keep us updated.