Plant continues to drop and is spotted... help

Tim1987 said:

I think it's a little different indoors though. Because of the fertilizer we use. Soil inside may as well be soiless. We're using ionic fertilizer. The soil is almost lifeless.
Outside we're choosing our amendments. Manures, dynamic lifter, blood and bone, gypsum, limes, mulches etc. It's also the humus in the soil which is breaking down these materials and excreting humic acid. Fulvic acid as well. Worms aid this process as well.
Organic material needs to be broken down, to become available.

Indoors we have, next to no humus. No worms. No manures and mulches. The soil is lifeless.
Our bottled nutrients, are the required nutrients in their chemical form. They have pure humic, and Fulvic acid added as well. It's ionic, and available right away. As long as ph is in the right ranges, it can be absorbed.
I love making compost too. You can vary the ph of you compost, depending on what you add when it's composting.

Outdoors it's the life in the soil, that affects the ph and nutrient availability.
For instance, here in Australia. A lot of our soil is naturally acidic. Lots of our native flora like acidic soil. They don't like fertilizing either. Lots of them have proteoid roots, and really easily burn. The odd bit of mulch and rain is ample for them. It's also the types of microbes in the soil, feeding on the parent material, keeping the root zone in check.

Click to expand...

I grow complelty organic with living soil inside.

Manure, compost, worms and all.

whitebb2727 said:

I grow complelty organic with living soil inside.

Manure, compost, worms and all.

Click to expand...

Seriously!!!
Fuck that's awesome. You are one of a few, who can.
Much respect. Bravo dude

SuckMyBigBud said:

My humidity is between 38-50% constantly (I know it's best to keep it steady) and my temps are low aren't they? They're 64-70F . They're growing in an open room and whatever temp my house is at then the plants are also at that temp which is why it's so hard to make the necessary adjustments.
Thank you for your reply

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In your first posting you said 35-42 and now your claiming its 38-50 constantly...which is which dude? Seems to me you're not sure what's your humidity. Do you even have a hygrometer to monitor the humidity near your plant?

You mentioned 12 hours of sunlight...is that direct sunlight or reflected sunlight? Then you have a 200 watt CFL for another 12 hours. Combine those 2 heat source together + low humidity = rapid transpiration, no chance for your plant to cool down....dude canopy temperature is different from whatever your house temperature is....do you have a thermometer that monitors the heat on top of your plant? My house temp is 70-72 but my canopy is at 80-85

We can only surmise what's happening to your plant based on the data you provided. If the data you provided is not as accurate to what's your plant is subjected to then my assumption is as good as the next guy assumption in other words useless.

Tim1987 said:

Seriously!!!
Fuck that's awesome. You are one of a few, who can.
Much respect. Bravo dude

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Thanks.

It's fairly common. There is an organic section here.

whitebb2727 said:

Thanks.

It's fairly common. There is an organic section here.

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Yep.
Just not THAT organic.
It's a lot of work, maintenance and time.
Plus all the constant re introduction of worms, microbes etc.
It's admirable.
But for me not practical. I leave organic for outdoors.

I have browsed the organic section. There is some cool stuff in there.
Imho though, a lot of organic gardeners get too absorbed with amendments like kelp, barley etc. Compost is all you need.
Super soil, is a real oxymoron imo.

Nothing in organics, beats a good compost. Quality compost should be all we need.

Tim1987 said:

Yep.
Just not THAT organic.
It's a lot of work, maintenance and time.
Plus all the constant re introduction of worms, microbes etc.
It's admirable.
But for me not practical. I leave organic for outdoors.

I have browsed the organic section. There is some cool stuff in there.
Imho though, a lot of organic gardeners get too absorbed with amendments like kelp, barley etc. Compost is all you need.
Super soil, is a real oxymoron imo.

Nothing in organics, beats a good compost. Quality compost should be all we need.

Click to expand...

Nah. It's really not complicated. I have a worm farm. Just using castings alone the worms eventually hatch in the soil.

All manures I compost. I mix third each of base like peat, compost and castings. Add a bit of epoma garden tone, lime and a few other ingredients and good to go. No measuring. No mixing. Easy peasy.

That's awesome maing!!
Love it.

Xs121 said:

In your first posting you said 35-42 and now your claiming its 38-50 constantly...which is which dude? Seems to me you're not sure what's your humidity. Do you even have a hygrometer to monitor the humidity near your plant?

You mentioned 12 hours of sunlight...is that direct sunlight or reflected sunlight? Then you have a 200 watt CFL for another 12 hours. Combine those 2 heat source together + low humidity = rapid transpiration, no chance for your plant to cool down....dude canopy temperature is different from whatever your house temperature is....do you have a thermometer that monitors the heat on top of your plant? My house temp is 70-72 but my canopy is at 80-85

We can only surmise what's happening to your plant based on the data you provided. If the data you provided is not as accurate to what's your plant is subjected to then my assumption is as good as the next guy assumption in other words useless.

Click to expand...

Yes I have a digital hygrometer , today it jumped to about 52 hence why I added that new number in my post. I'm not guesstimating or full of shit I'm giving you whatever numbers I've seen for myself lately .

And that hygrometer sits inside of my tray where the seedlings are cause I figured that's where I'll get my most accurate reading since it's right beside the plants themselves .

As for sunlight it sits in a window sill, and about 4-5 hours out of a day it receives direct sunlight , rest of the day it's fairly shady as I have trees blocking some of the sunlight depending on the time of day.

And reading the hygrometer my canopy temp are the numbers I've previously given you . It's in my basement which is cooler then the rest of the house , at night she drops to about 66 canopy temp. It use to sit closer to 68-70 but I raised my light quite a bit since users said it was way too close .

Thanks

So I'm gonna test putting that plant into some darkness in the closet and let it get some sleep while my new sprouted babies soak up the light .

One of my babies that sprouted yesterday has a white spot on its leaf Almost looks like it's a hole and it's whiteish but not the whole way through .

So I had my hygrometer in the window , and by 10PM temps dropped to 62 and humidity was reading at 58 :/ that's way too high humidity and way too low temps right ?

Maybe I'll plug in a heater down here near the plants and see if that raises the temp enough . Or maybe I'll convert my closet into a grow space where I can add heat and control shit a little more , does anyone suggest that? Cause it gets cold in this open basement room.

Hope these new babies do alright , I posted a pic of the one with the white spot
I also lowered the light to about 4-4.5" from my closet seedling and also it's about 3" from my hygrometer/temp reader . I never place it this close to the light so now at least I'll get a more accurate reading of what the plants canopy temp is at. After it sitting there for 5-6 mins it's up to 70F so at least this light throws off a little heat .
The plants soil feels pretty damn cold which I'm sure isn't good at all , maybe another big part of my issues I'm facing is cold temps and fairly high humidity sitting near 60%?

Thanks for all the suggestions , help and info guys

SuckMyBigBud said:

So I'm gonna test putting that plant into some darkness in the closet and let it get some sleep while my new sprouted babies soak up the light .

One of my babies that sprouted yesterday has a white spot on its leaf Almost looks like it's a hole and it's whiteish but not the whole way through .

So I had my hygrometer in the window , and by 10PM temps dropped to 62 and humidity was reading at 58 :/ that's way too high humidity and way too low temps right ?

Maybe I'll plug in a heater down here near the plants and see if that raises the temp enough . Or maybe I'll convert my closet into a grow space where I can add heat and control shit a little more , does anyone suggest that? Cause it gets cold in this open basement room.

Hope these new babies do alright , I posted a pic of the one with the white spot

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Just keep them warm. 75-80 is ideal. 69 during the night.
Your humidity is good.
Keep them to a regular light schedule.

Tim1987 said:

Just keep them warm. 75-80 is ideal. 69 during the night.
Your humidity is good.
Keep them to a regular light schedule.

Click to expand...

Alright thanks man

Tim1987 said:

I think it's a little different indoors though. Because of the fertilizer we use. Soil inside may as well be soiless. We're using ionic fertilizer. The soil is almost lifeless.
Outside we're choosing our amendments. Manures, dynamic lifter, blood and bone, gypsum, limes, mulches etc. It's also the humus in the soil which is breaking down these materials and excreting humic acid. Fulvic acid as well. Worms aid this process as well.
Organic material needs to be broken down, to become available.

Indoors we have, next to no humus. No worms. No manures and mulches. The soil is lifeless.
Our bottled nutrients, are the required nutrients in their chemical form. They have pure humic, and Fulvic acid added as well. It's ionic, and available right away. As long as ph is in the right ranges, it can be absorbed.
I love making compost too. You can vary the ph of you compost, depending on what you add when it's composting.

Outdoors it's the life in the soil, that affects the ph and nutrient availability.
For instance, here in Australia. A lot of our soil is naturally acidic. Lots of our native flora like acidic soil. They don't like fertilizing either. Lots of them have proteoid roots, and really easily burn. The odd bit of mulch and rain is ample for them. It's also the types of microbes in the soil, feeding on the parent material, keeping the root zone in check.

Click to expand...

Truth be told, a plant cannot tell the difference between chemical ion and an organic one. It takes it up the same way and it makes no difference to the plant whatsoever if the potassium comes from an organic compost, or a chemical nutrient. The only thing organic helps with, is the grow overall is easier once the medium is dialed in, the soil will take care of the plant with less 'input' from the grower.
I actually use chemical nutrients with some organics for the roots, i also use the 'organic' form of pro mix, which has gypsum in it, i add liquid worm castings, humus, along with worm castings compost at the start, once or twice during veg i give fresh coconut water. Contrary to popular belief, using chemical nutes will not 'destroy' microbial life in the soil.

Blitz35 said:

Truth be told, a plant cannot tell the difference between chemical ion and an organic one. It takes it up the same way and it makes no difference to the plant whatsoever if the potassium comes from an organic compost, or a chemical nutrient. The only thing organic helps with, is the grow overall is easier once the medium is dialed in, the soil will take care of the plant with less 'input' from the grower.
I actually use chemical nutrients with some organics for the roots, i also use the 'organic' form of pro mix, which has gypsum in it, i add liquid worm castings, humus, along with worm castings compost at the start, once or twice during veg i give fresh coconut water. Contrary to popular belief, using chemical nutes will not 'destroy' microbial life in the soil.

Click to expand...

I agree with you.
That's the point.
Organic matter outdoors has to be broken down several times over, before it's available in chemical form. There's a latency.
Hydroponics things happen immediately. Or overnight.
Soil it takes a long time, for what you feed to become available. (unless we cheat, and use bottled nutrients)
Then it may as well be soiless.

Tim1987 said:

I agree with you.
That's the point.
Organic matter outdoors has to be broken down several times over, before it's available in chemical form. There's a latency.
Hydroponics things happen immediately. Or overnight.
Soil it takes a long time, for what you feed to become available. (unless we cheat, and use bottled nutrients)
Then it may as well be soiless.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't consider it 'cheating'! It's like using a microwave instead of an oven

Haha so something awesome happent ,

I put the AK in the dark closet over night and check her out

Whoever told me about the cfl and sunshine mixing / confusing the hell out of her was right , this is the first night I didn't put her under the cfl and it's the healthiest she's looked yet. I guess she just needed that slumber to perk her up,
Thanks guys ! Now I'm guessing that the spots on her are probably from the garbage MG soil. I'm gonna switch water today, no more tap water going to buy a big jug of water at the store and see how they like that.

Also, I moved the cfl 4 inches from plants and hygrometer , and the canopy temp was 79 this morning and 43% humidity so I guess I'll just use the cfl and do 18-6 as suggested , I'll give the little babies 24hr for they're first week of life and then keep them on an 18/6 regimen under the cfl . I only started noticing the drooping past the larger AK's 2nd week of life other then that she was pretty healthy with that light regimen .

I guess I probably wasn't over watering after all, I was in a very good mood to wake up to that ak standing right up and new sprouts 13 out of 16 babies have emerged thus far.

Thanks again RIU membs

Told you that the combination of 12 hrs sunlight + 12 hrs of cfl + low humidity = sucking the life out of your plant. Yes plant need some time to rest. good that you have your humidity up.

Cheers

Xs121 said:

Told you that the combination of 12 hrs sunlight + 12 hrs of cfl + low humidity = sucking the life out of your plant. Yes plant need some time to rest. good that you have your humidity up.

Cheers

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Thanks again,

She seems to have stunted in growth the last week because of these issues , so hopefully she starts growing nicely again .

SuckMyBigBud said:

Haha so something awesome happent ,

I put the AK in the dark closet over night and check her out

Whoever told me about the cfl and sunshine mixing / confusing the hell out of her was right , this is the first night I didn't put her under the cfl and it's the healthiest she's looked yet. I guess she just needed that slumber to perk her up,
Thanks guys ! Now I'm guessing that the spots on her are probably from the garbage MG soil. I'm gonna switch water today, no more tap water going to buy a big jug of water at the store and see how they like that.

Also, I moved the cfl 4 inches from plants and hygrometer , and the canopy temp was 79 this morning and 43% humidity so I guess I'll just use the cfl and do 18-6 as suggested , I'll give the little babies 24hr for they're first week of life and then keep them on an 18/6 regimen under the cfl . I only started noticing the drooping past the larger AK's 2nd week of life other then that she was pretty healthy with that light regimen .

I guess I probably wasn't over watering after all, I was in a very good mood to wake up to that ak standing right up and new sprouts 13 out of 16 babies have emerged thus far.

Thanks again RIU membs

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Yep!!!
I thought so.
That light cycle was stressing the shit out of them.

Nothing like a pissed off, tired female man. They need their beauty sleep. That's for sure.

Tim1987 said:

Yep!!!
I thought so.
That light cycle was stressing the shit out of them.

Nothing like a pissed off, tired female man. They need their beauty sleep. That's for sure.

Click to expand...

Haha yeah , agreed!
This AK was a regular seed, so I hope it turns out to be a she, and not a he or "heshe" lol .

10 out of 16 my other seedlings are feminized(6 were either bagseed or reg blue cheese seeds , I'm hoping they're BC)

it's my first time growing feminized seeds, all my other grows have been from regular seed. I've heard there's chances of hermies with fem seeds , or that the plant can have poorer genetics , hope that isn't true .

Thanks again guys