Plant continues to drop and is spotted... help

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SuckMyBigBud

Well-Known Member
i posted a few days back and got some good replies , but the plant is just looking sicker and sicker

I think it's this garbage miracle grow soil, but for some reason my plant continues to droop at night when I put it under my 200 watt cfl. I was told the light was too close at 2 inches so I raised it a bit each night and I made my way to about 6 inches , and again this morning it's dropping again
Isn't 6 inches plenty far? I just planted 10 more babies so I hope they turn out healthier than this one !

Here are some photos of her this morning , and photos of how she looks on the sunlight. Also , I can't figure out what these brown spots are , and the leave seems to be drying out a little , doesn't feel as lively as the new growth

Waters PH is about 6.2 , I make sure soil is fairly dry before watering , not giving any nutes , started it in a peat pellet and transplanted it in miracle grow seed starting soil (0.3-0.3-0.3) I grew / sprouted several seedlings in this soil in the past and had awesome results .
Hope someone can figure out what's wrong with her .

They are under 24 hour light , half sunlight and the other half night time under my 200W cfl.

Temps can go as low at 66 at night in my house , which is why I had the cfl so close beforenbut that didn't seem to make a difference , humidity is 35-42%

The last photo is what she looks like after spending time in sunlight in the window
 

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Tim1987

Well-Known Member
Hey mate.
In my opinion -

Why are you giving them 24HR of light?? Especially 24hrs of light from two different light sources. The plants would be really stressed, and have no clue where the fuck they are.
TBH I think you're better off leaving them under the cfl on 18/6 schedule.
You need to be heating your space, on a thermostat. 25'C during the day. 21-22'C during the night.
Try to keep your humidity stable. No big fluctuations. Between 40-60% is ideal.

Are you positive, you're not overwatering? The soil looks moist. There's also leaf wrinkling/cratering, which is a tell tale sign of overwatering. Also when roots are really wet, they start to rot, from lack of O2. This means the plant can't draw nearly as much water.
Severely over watered plants, have very similar symptoms to under watered ones. Even dry, crispy leaves. Just bare it in mind.

How often are you watering? Seedling mixes usually have really good water holding capacity.

What's your water like?

Besides all this, looks like the largest plants need a transplant soon anyway. But I'd find what the problem is first.

When you opened the bag of seedling mix. Was it damp, and clumpy at all? Any smell?
Or was it nice, and loose, smelled like nice dirt/humus?
 
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Blitz35

Well-Known Member
Seems to be a slight touch of over watering, The leaves are kind of puffy, which usually indicates too much watering..plant cant 'breathe'. Mircale gro is trash, i never had a good experience with it, even with my vegetables, so who knows. No need for 24 hours of light..all living organisms need 'rest', you're just wasting electricity with it on 24/0!
 
Xs121

Xs121

Well-Known Member
SuckMyBigBud said:
Temps can go as low at 66 at night in my house , which is why I had the cfl so close beforenbut that didn't seem to make a difference , humidity is 35-42%
Click to expand...
IMO, this is your problem, Hot canopy and super dry air. Your plant is transpiring to the max and will shut down if it becomes too much. Look up VPD, its not a holy grail but a guideline as to what is a healthy relationship between temperature and humidity. It doesn't matter if your medium is moist (or soaked) with that kind of heat and humidity it's sucking the life out of your plants.

You're trying to grow a plant, not drying a plant. Figure a way to increase that humidity or put your plant inside a big clear garbage bag (to act like a dome).

Just my 2 cents
 
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SuckMyBigBud

Well-Known Member
Tim1987 said:
Hey mate.
In my opinion -

Why are you giving them 24HR of light?? Especially 24hrs of light from two different light sources. The plants would be really stressed, and have no clue where the fuck they are.
TBH I think you're better off leaving them under the cfl on 18/6 schedule.
You need to be heating your space, on a thermostat. 25'C during the day. 21-22'C during the night.
Try to keep your humidity stable. No big fluctuations. Between 40-60% is ideal.

Are you positive, you're not overwatering? The soil looks moist. There's also leaf wrinkling/cratering, which is a tell tale sign of overwatering. Also when roots are really wet, they start to rot, from lack of O2. This means the plant can't draw nearly as much water.
Severely over watered plants, have very similar symptoms to under watered ones. Even dry, crispy leaves. Just bare it in mind.

How often are you watering? Seedling mixes usually have really good water holding capacity.

What's your water like?

Besides all this, looks like the largest plants need a transplant soon anyway. But I'd find what the problem is first.

When you opened the bag of seedling mix. Was it damp, and clumpy at all? Any smell?
Or was it nice, and loose, smelled like nice dirt/humus?
Click to expand...
I'm barely watering her mate , like one watering every couple days lately and I don't even drench the soil in fear that I may of been previously over watering. And I wait until Its pretty before I give her anymore water at all.

My water is plain old tap water With a PH of 6.2, I read that tap water is chlorinated so I do let it sit in a bottle for about 24 hours before using it incase it helps at all.

I was going to go and buy a big culligan jug of water, the plants would be better off being fed something like that right ?

To be honest I don't remember what it was like when I opened it Didn't play close attention but I will be from now on. I know it wasn't super clumpy though it was fairly loose, the odd tiny piece of clumped soil but barely any at all.

My cfl is a 200 watt so I was trying to save on my bill and figured the sun would do them some good, but I guess maybe I'll go and grab my smaller T8 tube fluorescents and keep them on an 18/6 schedule instead as you've suggested, your theory makes complete sense they're probably confused as fuck going from such a drop in heat and light from the window , thanks man.

I figure they probably don't need much more light then that to just beg for a couple weeks anyways right ? My Smaller fluorescent said should be just fine I reckon , as I've vegged under them in the past . Cause They're going outside in 2-3 weeks after the last frost as I can't really grow in my apartment , the wife won't be very happy if she finds an op down there lol


Tim1987 said:
I had a little read of your last thread.
The veggies. Are they under the cfl too?
Click to expand...
Yeah man they're also under the same CFL, receiving the same water and they're doing great. Only difference is that they are mostly still in they're peat pellets, but many of those veggies (about 10 plants) have been also transplanted into the same miracle grow seedling mix and they're doing great, no issues whatsoever with them . I figured if it was the soil that maybe I should be seeing at least some issues with even 1-2 of those plants?

Blitz35 said:
Seems to be a slight touch of over watering, The leaves are kind of puffy, which usually indicates too much watering..plant cant 'breathe'. Mircale gro is trash, i never had a good experience with it, even with my vegetables, so who knows. No need for 24 hours of light..all living organisms need 'rest', you're just wasting electricity with it on 24/0!
Click to expand...
I had amazing results starting my AK-48's with his same seedling mix about 6 years ago , so I thought hey this stuff will be perfect. But honestly it's the last time I ever use it, bags gonna go in the trash or just gonna mix it in with my large back of outdoor soil for my veggies .
Well about 12 of those hours was sitting in the window to save my electricity , but as the other guy who commented on my post said, it was probably fucking with my plants.

Will be switching over to 18-6 tonight , thanks for your input everybody I seriously appreciate it a ton.

So I'll switch to 18/6, possibly switch to lower wattage fluorescents , let the soil dry out even more , and grab some water like a culligan or something instead of using chlorine filled tap water .
If that seems like a good plan of action let me know guys, thanks again!
 
S

SuckMyBigBud

Well-Known Member
Xs121 said:
IMO, this is your problem, Hot canopy and super dry air. Your plant is transpiring to the max and will shut down if it becomes too much. Look up VPD, its not a holy grail but a guideline as to what is a healthy relationship between temperature and humidity. It doesn't matter if your medium is moist (or soaked) with that kind of heat and humidity it's sucking the life out of your plants.

You're trying to grow a plant, not drying a plant. Figure a way to increase that humidity or put your plant inside a big clear garbage bag (to act like a dome).

Just my 2 cents
Click to expand...
My humidity is between 38-50% constantly (I know it's best to keep it steady) and my temps are low aren't they? They're 64-70F . They're growing in an open room and whatever temp my house is at then the plants are also at that temp which is why it's so hard to make the necessary adjustments.
Thank you for your reply
 
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Blitz35

Well-Known Member
SuckMyBigBud said:
I'm barely watering her mate , like one watering every couple days lately and I don't even drench the soil in fear that I may of been previously over watering. And I wait until Its pretty before I give her anymore water at all.

My water is plain old tap water With a PH of 6.2, I read that tap water is chlorinated so I do let it sit in a bottle for about 24 hours before using it incase it helps at all.

I was going to go and buy a big culligan jug of water, the plants would be better off being fed something like that right ?

To be honest I don't remember what it was like when I opened it Didn't play close attention but I will be from now on. I know it wasn't super clumpy though it was fairly loose, the odd tiny piece of clumped soil but barely any at all.

My cfl is a 200 watt so I was trying to save on my bill and figured the sun would do them some good, but I guess maybe I'll go and grab my smaller T8 tube fluorescents and keep them on an 18/6 schedule instead as you've suggested, your theory makes complete sense they're probably confused as fuck going from such a drop in heat and light from the window , thanks man.

I figure they probably don't need much more light then that to just beg for a couple weeks anyways right ? My Smaller fluorescent said should be just fine I reckon , as I've vegged under them in the past . Cause They're going outside in 2-3 weeks after the last frost as I can't really grow in my apartment , the wife won't be very happy if she finds an op down there lol



Yeah man they're also under the same CFL, receiving the same water and they're doing great. Only difference is that they are mostly still in they're peat pellets, but many of those veggies (about 10 plants) have been also transplanted into the same miracle grow seedling mix and they're doing great, no issues whatsoever with them . I figured if it was the soil that maybe I should be seeing at least some issues with even 1-2 of those plants?



I had amazing results starting my AK-48's with his same seedling mix about 6 years ago , so I thought hey this stuff will be perfect. But honestly it's the last time I ever use it, bags gonna go in the trash or just gonna mix it in with my large back of outdoor soil for my veggies .
Well about 12 of those hours was sitting in the window to save my electricity , but as the other guy who commented on my post said, it was probably fucking with my plants.

Will be switching over to 18-6 tonight , thanks for your input everybody I seriously appreciate it a ton.

So I'll switch to 18/6, possibly switch to lower wattage fluorescents , let the soil dry out even more , and grab some water like a culligan or something instead of using chlorine filled tap water .
If that seems like a good plan of action let me know guys, thanks again!
Click to expand...
I would highly doubt that the change in light is having any effect on the plants!!! We dont see plants get all weird outdoors if they get 3-4 days of cloudy skies or variable sun. Here is a pic of a regular i had..it was grown under 10 23 watt cfl's..however when i left for work at 10am...plant was growing in the summer, i put it by the patio doors and it was in pure sunlight for 5-6 hours all afternoon, then back under the cfl's. i never had a plant look as healthy and problem free since!..and that was only my 2nd grow with weed! Ignore the 'lollipop quote lol..it should say defoliate:)
 

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Tim1987

Well-Known Member
SuckMyBigBud said:
I'm barely watering her mate , like one watering every couple days lately and I don't even drench the soil in fear that I may of been previously over watering. And I wait until Its pretty before I give her anymore water at all.

My water is plain old tap water With a PH of 6.2, I read that tap water is chlorinated so I do let it sit in a bottle for about 24 hours before using it incase it helps at all.

I was going to go and buy a big culligan jug of water, the plants would be better off being fed something like that right ?

To be honest I don't remember what it was like when I opened it Didn't play close attention but I will be from now on. I know it wasn't super clumpy though it was fairly loose, the odd tiny piece of clumped soil but barely any at all.

My cfl is a 200 watt so I was trying to save on my bill and figured the sun would do them some good, but I guess maybe I'll go and grab my smaller T8 tube fluorescents and keep them on an 18/6 schedule instead as you've suggested, your theory makes complete sense they're probably confused as fuck going from such a drop in heat and light from the window , thanks man.

I figure they probably don't need much more light then that to just beg for a couple weeks anyways right ? My Smaller fluorescent said should be just fine I reckon , as I've vegged under them in the past . Cause They're going outside in 2-3 weeks after the last frost as I can't really grow in my apartment , the wife won't be very happy if she finds an op down there lol



Yeah man they're also under the same CFL, receiving the same water and they're doing great. Only difference is that they are mostly still in they're peat pellets, but many of those veggies (about 10 plants) have been also transplanted into the same miracle grow seedling mix and they're doing great, no issues whatsoever with them . I figured if it was the soil that maybe I should be seeing at least some issues with even 1-2 of those plants?



I had amazing results starting my AK-48's with his same seedling mix about 6 years ago , so I thought hey this stuff will be perfect. But honestly it's the last time I ever use it, bags gonna go in the trash or just gonna mix it in with my large back of outdoor soil for my veggies .
Well about 12 of those hours was sitting in the window to save my electricity , but as the other guy who commented on my post said, it was probably fucking with my plants.

Will be switching over to 18-6 tonight , thanks for your input everybody I seriously appreciate it a ton.

So I'll switch to 18/6, possibly switch to lower wattage fluorescents , let the soil dry out even more , and grab some water like a culligan or something instead of using chlorine filled tap water .
If that seems like a good plan of action let me know guys, thanks again!
Click to expand...
Your veggies may tell the tale. Veggies like a slightly higher ph than cannabis. Close to 7ph. Even a little over 7 for some.
Can you test the soil ph at all? Any spare mix you can use to make a slurry?
 
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Blitz35

Well-Known Member
Tim1987 said:
Your veggies may tell the tale. Veggies like a slightly higher ph than cannabis. Close to 7ph. Even a little over 7 for some.
Can you test the soil ph at all? Any spare mix you can use to make a slurry?
Click to expand...
Not sure why veggies want a higher ph..they have the exact same needs as any other plant, and elements are taken up at the same ph. I grow cucumbers, tomatoes, 4-5 kinds of peppers, a bunch of herbs, cantaloupes, beets, and they want the same ph as cannabis! One time i got lazy and decided to give one pepper just straight tap water that had a ph of 7.2, and the next day, the plant was all messed up! Plants are plants, same needs for the most part..some rare things, like say blueberries do prefer extra acidity, but in general, there is no difference from your average veggy/fruit plants and cannabis!
 
whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
First you aren't giving anything enough time. You should also kept it in the other thread.

Remember in soil it can take a few days for changes to show. After correcting a mistake they can continue to get worse before getting better.

Leave it under one light for a set schedule. I know people say it's a c3 and can veg under 24 hour light. They need the break. Even just a few hours a day.

It's normal for them to droop after lights out and perk back up when lights come back on.

Water less. Thats the trick to mg soil. More water releases more nutes.

Quit worrying so much and leave the plant alone or you are going to kill it.

Seriously. Don't look at it for a couple days.
 
T

Tim1987

Well-Known Member
Blitz35 said:
I would highly doubt that the change in light is having any effect on the plants!!! We dont see plants get all weird outdoors if they get 3-4 days of cloudy skies or variable sun. Here is a pic of a regular i had..it was grown under 10 23 watt cfl's..however when i left for work at 10am...plant was growing in the summer, i put it by the patio doors and it was in pure sunlight for 5-6 hours all afternoon, then back under the cfl's. i never had a plant look as healthy and problem free since!..and that was only my 2nd grow with weed! Ignore the 'lollipop quote lol..it should say defoliate:)
Click to expand...
I don't think it's so much the light, that's the problem. It's switching the light source during the day.
The plants are being put under a 200watt cfl, with a different spectrum to the sun, and imo is confusing the shit out of the plants. They're under the cfl, when they're meant to be in the dark sleeping.
I realise you can run 24hours of light. But let's say for example, we run 24hrs of light. 18hrs at 1000watts, and 6hrs at 400watts. This photo period will confuse the shit out of the plants. Because there is less light for 6hrs of the day, the plants think it's dark. Even though it isn't.
They're essentially half asleep, and photosynthesizing at the same time. Very stressful. Stresses me out just thinking about it.
 
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Blitz35

Well-Known Member
"I'm barely watering her mate , like one watering every couple days lately and I don't even drench the soil in fear that I may of been previously over watering."
You HAVE to drench the soil when you water..there is no such thing as overwatering in any one instance..over watering comes from giving water too often and not letting it dry properly. You can dump 20L of waer on it today and it will be fine..but giving it 1L here and there is an issue as it never gets to fully saturate your medium, you're just keeping the top wet for the most part.
 
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Blitz35

Well-Known Member
Tim1987 said:
I don't think it's so much the light, that's the problem. It's switching the light source during the day.
The plants are being put under a 200watt cfl, with a different spectrum to the sun, and imo is confusing the shit out of the plants. They're under the cfl, when they're meant to be in the dark sleeping.
I realise you can run 24hours of light. But let's say for example, we run 24hrs of light. 18hrs at 1000watts, and 6hrs at 400watts. This photo period will confuse the shit out of the plants. Because there is less light for 6hrs of the day, the plants think it's dark. Even though it isn't.
They're essentially half asleep, and photosynthesizing at the same time. Very stressful. Stresses me out just thinking about it.
Click to expand...
Again, i do this with my flowers and vegetables..they spend, at this time of year..half under artificial light, and the other half under the sun, no issues at all..they love the sun more..always show an extra spurt afterwards! Plants are not that complicated..they photosynthesize when they need to/have to, and sleep otherwise, even with lights on. Plants can only feed what's in the medium, he has nothing for the most part..they can only transport this food with water, which he's not doing enough of in a regular manner.
 
whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
Yea. The barley watering thing is bad for seed starter. It's made of peat. If it gets too dry it becomes hydrophobic. Barley watering will cause dry pockets. I had an outdoor plant do that. It wouldn't take water. It looked crazy. Started with spots.

When using nutes it will cause salt build up.

Water them good and then let them go until they droop of under watering a bit. Then you will know what it looks like.

You are killing the plant with love. Seriously. The best thing a new grower can learn is to quit screwing around with thier plants.

Then learn proper watering technique.
 
T

Tim1987

Well-Known Member
Blitz35 said:
Not sure why veggies want a higher ph..they have the exact same needs as any other plant, and elements are taken up at the same ph. I grow cucumbers, tomatoes, 4-5 kinds of peppers, a bunch of herbs, cantaloupes, beets, and they want the same ph as cannabis! One time i got lazy and decided to give one pepper just straight tap water that had a ph of 7.2, and the next day, the plant was all messed up! Plants are plants, same needs for the most part..some rare things, like say blueberries do prefer extra acidity, but in general, there is no difference from your average veggy/fruit plants and cannabis!
Click to expand...
I LOVE MY VEGGIES BLITZ.
I probably like growing a veggie garden more than I like to grow weed.
Tomatoes are fairly acidic loving. But anything else. Leafy greens, brassicas etc. Is higher.

It's the same reason people harp on about not needing to ph for soil. Because most garden soils are very close to neutral.
Same reason heaps of people companion plant cannabis with tomatoes and grapes. The ph and npk needed in the soil is very similar.

Same goes with crop cycling. It's not only for the salts. It's ph too.
 
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Tim1987

Well-Known Member
whitebb2727 said:
Yea. The barley watering thing is bad for seed starter. It's made of peat. If it gets too dry it becomes hydrophobic. Barley watering will cause dry pockets. I had an outdoor plant do that. It wouldn't take water. It looked crazy. Started with spots.

When using nutes it will cause salt build up.

Water them good and then let them go until they droop of under watering a bit. Then you will know what it looks like.

You are killing the plant with love. Seriously. The best thing a new grower can learn is to quit screwing around with thier plants.

Then learn proper watering technique.
Click to expand...
THIS 100% OP.
Quit dicking around. Experiment with mixes, once you know what you're doing, and what each substrate does.
Use one light source 18/6
Use a soil that is tried, and proven.
Use a nutrient that is tried and proven.

Just grow simple.
If you think you're gonna come up with a better soil mix, than what's already available, the first few grows. Then you're kidding yourself.

Sorry to be blunt.


May I suggest as well, testing the ph of your soil, before you plant in future. Not phing in soil when you plant is a very amateur move IMHO.


Good luck op. I hope your plants recover.
 
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Blitz35

Well-Known Member
Tim1987 said:
I LOVE MY VEGGIES BLITZ.
I probably like growing a veggie garden more than I like to grow weed.
Tomatoes are fairly acidic loving. But anything else. Leafy greens, brassicas etc. Is higher.

It's the same reason people harp on about not needing to ph for soil. Because most garden soils are very close to neutral.
Same reason heaps of people companion plant cannabis with tomatoes and grapes. The ph and npk needed in the soil is very similar.

Same goes with crop cycling. It's not only for the salts. It's ph too.
Click to expand...
Most people harp on that fact simply because most people who grow veggies and such, do it outdoors, and nature will take care of ph on its own for the most part. I grow it all in containers in my living room for the most part lol, so i have to monitor ph, i companion plant as well so that when tey go on the balcony for a few hours, there is something to attract pollinators and deter pests..its why i have marigold, lavender, basil, chives, oregano, dill growing around it all:) Up to now..i have ph'ed the same way as cannabis, growing in same medium, so i give same ph, and growth is explosive! My 5 week old cucumber plant was over 5 feet tall last season..over 80 flowers on it within 3 weeks of starting flower.
 
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Tim1987

Well-Known Member
Blitz35 said:
Most people harp on that fact simply because most people who grow veggies and such, do it outdoors, and nature will take care of ph on its own for the most part. I grow it all in containers in my living room for the most part lol, so i have to monitor ph, i companion plant as well so that when tey go on the balcony for a few hours, there is something to attract pollinators and deter pests..its why i have marigold, lavender, basil, chives, oregano, dill growing around it all:) Up to now..i have ph'ed the same way as cannabis, growing in same medium, so i give same ph, and growth is explosive! My 5 week old cucumber plant was over 5 feet tall last season..over 80 flowers on it within 3 weeks of starting flower.
Click to expand...
I think it's a little different indoors though. Because of the fertilizer we use. Soil inside may as well be soiless. We're using ionic fertilizer. The soil is almost lifeless.
Outside we're choosing our amendments. Manures, dynamic lifter, blood and bone, gypsum, limes, mulches etc. It's also the humus in the soil which is breaking down these materials and excreting humic acid. Fulvic acid as well. Worms aid this process as well.
Organic material needs to be broken down, to become available.

Indoors we have, next to no humus. No worms. No manures and mulches. The soil is lifeless.
Our bottled nutrients, are the required nutrients in their chemical form. They have pure humic, and Fulvic acid added as well. It's ionic, and available right away. As long as ph is in the right ranges, it can be absorbed.
I love making compost too. You can vary the ph of you compost, depending on what you add when it's composting.

Outdoors it's the life in the soil, that affects the ph and nutrient availability.
For instance, here in Australia. A lot of our soil is naturally acidic. Lots of our native flora like acidic soil. They don't like fertilizing either. Lots of them have proteoid roots, and really easily burn. The odd bit of mulch and rain is ample for them. It's also the types of microbes in the soil, feeding on the parent material, keeping the root zone in check.
 
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