Phosphorus or Potassium during flower???

homebrewer said:

Well for starters a cal/mag deficiency doesn't exist - it's either one or the other. And considering any halfway respectable plant food contains both elements, you're NOT seeing a calcium or magnesium deficiency, that's just operator error.

"Well if it's not a cal/mag issue, it's definitely the pH" -every single know-nothing grower on the web

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Funny, I’ve experienced this using ph perfect. Same ph for both plants.....
Added additional cal/mag supplement to the one that showed a calcium AND magnesium deficiency and no longer had an ongoing issue with these deficiencies!
I did not adjust ph!

homebrewer said:

"Well if it's not a cal/mag issue, it's definitely the pH" -every single know-nothing grower on the web

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It makes me look stupid when i keep repeating myself..."needs more N". PH is the MOST overrated and abused word in the plant world..... its NEVER the ph unless your in water. EVER

homebrewer said:

Well for starters a cal/mag deficiency doesn't exist - it's either one or the other.

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mostly agreed but everything is possible, even ph of soil being wrong, not likely at all but very possible.

Hydro4life said:

Funny, I’ve experienced this using ph perfect. Same ph for both plants.....
Added additional cal/mag supplement to the one that showed a calcium AND magnesium deficiency and no longer had an ongoing issue with these deficiencies!
I did not adjust ph!

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'pH perfect' is not literally ph perfect. You don't even know how that stuff works do you? lol

getogrow said:

mostly agreed but everything is possible, even ph of soil being wrong, not likely at all but very possible.

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The actual magnesium needs of our plants is very low and as far as calcium goes, as long as our foods contain it, that's enough.

I've only seen a calcium deficiency outdoors on my butternut squash. I had a case of blossom end-rot so I fed them twice with just a few mls/gal of Calmag and probably got 40 pounds of squash later that year.

People's issue is that they feed too much of the wrong foods and then blame 'calmag' or the 'pH' when things go south. You've been on the forum longer than I have so I'm sure you've seen it.

homebrewer said:

'pH perfect' is not literally ph perfect. You don't even know how that stuff works do you? lol

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I know how it works, and yes it does work! Even on tap water of 8.5 ph!
The point I was making is that nothing was different in regards to nutrients, nutrient strength, ph (or chelated nutrients) environment etc. yet one strain showed a calcium and a magnesium deficiency where as the other strains did not. Dosed a little cal/mag into feeding regime and no longer had deficiencies. Did not touch ph.

Hydro4life said:

I know how it works, and yes it does work! Even on tap water of 8.5 ph!
The point I was making is that nothing was different in regards to nutrients, nutrient strength, ph (or chelated nutrients) environment etc. yet one strain showed a calcium and a magnesium deficiency where as the other strains did not. Dosed a little cal/mag into feeding regime and no longer had deficiencies. Did not touch ph.

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It's funny that I just posted the quote below last week. I think it's very apropos in this situation, lol.

homebrewer said:

Pro tip: anyone who uses AN is either a beginner or a grower who knows f*ck all about plant nutrition.

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homebrewer said:

It's funny that I just posted the quote below last week. I think it's very apropos in this situation, lol.

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I didn’t say I use it, I said “I’ve experienced it USING Ph perfect”
It’s a great product depending on your circumstance or life commitments.
It was great when I was working away for a week at a time using rdwc for example.
I could not rely on the other person in my house to monitor my ph while I was away.

Some people are so quick to bag out a nutrient line or auto flowers or equipment being used. Sometimes you have to work with what you can....

radiant Rudy said:

Gtfoh water boy

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Sometimes book learning will get you nowhere in the real world.

why is this forum always so "i know more then you" ?? Believe it or not , weed is still "new". The local guys who dont speak are still by FAR the best on the planet. The ONLY thing we agree on is that you have to use water..... then even that turns into a giant "Do you use ro" ? There are less then a dozen people on this forum you should be paying attention to. the rest is just for learning. ah its 2019 , maybe 20 or 30 good ones on here now....

getogrow said:

Sometimes book learning will get you nowhere in the real world.

why is this forum always so "i know more then you" ?? Believe it or not , weed is still "new". The local guys who dont speak are still by FAR the best on the planet. The ONLY thing we agree on is that you have to use water..... then even that turns into a giant "Do you use ro" ? There are less then a dozen people on this forum you should be paying attention to. the rest is just for learning. ah its 2019 , maybe 20 or 30 good ones on here now....

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But cannabis isn't this anomaly of a plant with special needs and requirements. Plant nutrition and the role of the essential elements has been well established for at least a half a century. Know-nothing growers are the issue with their need to over-complicate every step of the process. Any complete, balanced food at our local nurseries will absolutely kill it in our container gardens. It gets only a bit more complicated for hydro.

homebrewer said:

But cannabis isn't this anomaly of a plant with special needs and requirements. Plant nutrition and the role of the essential elements has been well established for at least a half a century. Know-nothing growers are the issue with their need to over-complicate every step of the process. Any complete, balanced food at our local nurseries will absolutely kill it in our container gardens. It gets only a bit more complicated for hydro.

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This is 100% true. I speak on weed being new because of all the different stuff we process it into. We are just now learning to isolate terps , thc, cbd, then there is 50 other elements in weed that can be used for different shit. We are just now getting labs that can actually give us a true thc%. (20 years ago it costs me 1000 bucks to test the ounce i sent them and the tests were nowhere near as accurate as they are now)
10 years ago , uncleben was getting clowned on left an right for using peters food on this forum. It seems weve matured a bit and realize food is food. Back then the word miricle grow got you laughed at.... now its just another food with a different N then "weed food ". Its all the same you just gotta know what your using.
Well said brewer.

homebrewer said:

But cannabis isn't this anomaly of a plant with special needs and requirements. Plant nutrition and the role of the essential elements has been well established for at least a half a century. Know-nothing growers are the issue with their need to over-complicate every step of the process. Any complete, balanced food at our local nurseries will absolutely kill it in our container gardens. It gets only a bit more complicated for hydro.

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I run in to clowns like this from time to time in the hydro store I manage. I have to remember that you can't reason with the unreasonable. They're often times clueless. They have a little bit of knowledge and then think they know everything. They don't know what they don't know and they're as closed minded as it gets. Or they ask for the info but they do it like these clowns, in a very disrespectful manner. I call them ask-holes. I let them be 'right' without offering them any advice. Why should I? They already know it all. They'd do well to understand that the mind is like a parachute; it only works when it's open. Because you won't hand them over the knowledge, they mock you, claiming is because your don't know. They're just fools.

Theophilus said:

I run in to clowns like this from time to time in the hydro store I manage. I have to remember that you can't reason with the unreasonable. They're often times clueless. They have a little bit of knowledge and then think they know everything. They don't know what they don't know and they're as closed minded as it gets. Or they ask for the info but they do it like these clowns, in a very disrespectful manner. I call them ask-holes. I let them be 'right' without offering them any advice. Why should I? They already know it all. They'd do well to understand that the mind is like a parachute; it only works when it's open. Because you won't hand them over the knowledge, they mock you, claiming is because your don't know. They're just fools.

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Nail on head!

homebrewer said:

Well for starters a cal/mag deficiency doesn't exist - it's either one or the other. And considering any halfway respectable plant food contains both elements, you're NOT seeing a calcium or magnesium deficiency, that's just operator error.

"Well if it's not a cal/mag issue, it's definitely the pH" -every single know-nothing grower on the web

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Dude really, STFU. You are without a clue. You aren't even fluent with the basic chemistry, concepts and best practices.

STFU AND SAVE US FROM YOUR IDIOTIC, MISGUIDED NEED TO FLAP YOUR GUMS

homebrewer said:

The actual magnesium needs of our plants is very low and as far as calcium goes, as long as our foods contain it, that's enough.
.

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That word shit of misinformation reveals your complete ignorance of the basics of plant nutrition.

Just 5 mins minutes of legit ag research around "preferred base satutation, Ca and produce quality, plant disease and the importance of minersl nuttition" etc. will show that you are as deeply Dunning f'en Kroger'd as they come.

Theophilus said:

I run in to clowns like this from time to time in the hydro store I manage. I have to remember that you can't reason with the unreasonable. They're often times clueless. They have a little bit of knowledge and then think they know everything. They don't know what they don't know and they're as closed minded as it gets. Or they ask for the info but they do it like these clowns, in a very disrespectful manner. I call them ask-holes. I let them be 'right' without offering them any advice. Why should I? They already know it all. They'd do well to understand that the mind is like a parachute; it only works when it's open. Because you won't hand them over the knowledge, they mock you, claiming is because your don't know. They're just fools.

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Did you get tuition assistance from your "management" job to pursue studies in biology or chemistry? Or your botany knowledge is from your GED studies?

It's the guys first grow, he asks a specific question and is provided with almost 4 pages worth of bolix.

Under what is hopefully the proverbial line of unhelpful, maybe somebody can get into ppm values they use for the elements/stages?.

I'll start off what I know.

For coco

30ppm P seems to be the minimum for veg. I don't know if going any higher in veg is beneficial. In flower some suggest building up to peak P values by week 4. The peak value as far as I can tell is no more than 90ppm P. Then begin ramping down slowly, maybe back to 30ppm during the stage people would call ''flushing''.

K doesn't seem to get much attention in veg, I've only seen limited info on it so call it 100-200ppm K. For flower, from week 6 the K doesn't seem to change much from this, but it would seem leaning toward 200ppm would be better if you were only running 100~ in veg/early flower. Perhaps run slightly more K during end of veg/early/mid flower to begin with, rather than jumping up the K by double.

If you don't understand the ppm values and so forth don't worry, just tell us what nutrients you are using and somebody will be able to convert or give an idea of what/how much you need if you are thinking of changing something.

As an easy answer, P will triple from it's minimum requirement for the peak of flower. K ''could'' double depending on what you were using and how high you decide to go with it.

In relation to each other, K spends a lot of time during veg/flower being at-least double the amount of P.

Saffasteve said:

How did you come up with this theory ?

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Huh???

P&K are present in adequate amounts in any decent nutrient designed to feed most plants. There is nothing special about cannabis. Many of the cannabis specific nutrients are not providing adequate amounts in their base nutrients because they want to sell you more bottles. And then another thing that happens is they overload your grow medium with too much stuff causing the medium to become toxic and stressing and or stunting plant growth. That is backed up by all the people posting photo's of crispy fried plants with blotches and spots all over the leaves even though they have a dozen bottles of cool sounding products with cartoon characters on the labels. I rarely see people having issues when using just a decent well balanced nutrient like Jacks or Masterblend supplemented with calcium nitrate. Plenty of p&K in both of those without the need to add any more ever.

Feeding plants is easy and not complicated. Keeping them healthy doesn't require any cannabis specific products or bottles of this or that to be given a 3ml per gallon weeks 3 & 4 followed by a couple more additives given at X & Y dosages for weeks 4 - 7. I look at those feeding charts for cannabis specific nutrients and shake my head. Why do people go through all that. Using a calendar to feed your plants is ridiculous.