you know i was thinking they could be aphids they are referred as plant lice or plant fleas, so that might be it, they are on stems they suck the juices out of plants, they produce a substance called honey dew, ants love this because its very sweet, in fact ants will take the aphids hostage & herd them around, its like they farm them, thats outside, preying mantis, lady bugs love to eat them, im still fighting spider mites, dont know why i keep getting them i scrubbed my grow room now it seems worse, i feel like this is a battle, we are having a bad storm tonight, the first time i found spider mites, there was a storm like tonight, i put the one plant that started this bug problem outside, next am no more spider mites, then someone said i s/was my room down with bleach, did that recleaned my plants changed them to grow bags( new grow bags & potting soil), & then it got worse , the neem oil spray does work but you got to spray more than once a week, when i get money, i might try something else, i might start moving them all outside, then close up my room for the summer, let the room get rebleached then start inside when the weather starts to get cold, just take clones , dont know for sure i guess looking for ideas thanks