Organic Vs. Synthetic Nutrients

Check out the microbial life in coco getting fed mineral salts and chlorine daily, I've yet to look at soil but I doubt it'll be as rich in diversity?
One could argue there's a microbial side to growing in coco it's right there to be seen?

Pot worms are a sure sign of healthy medium, there's nothing sterile about coco.

Star Dog said:

Check out the microbial life in coco getting fed mineral salts and chlorine daily, I've yet to look at soil but I doubt it'll be as rich in diversity?

https://www.thcfarmer.com/threads/dates-notes-and-things-of-interest.164145/post-3202802

One could argue there's a microbial side to growing in coco it's right there to be seen?
View attachment 5468072
Pot worms are a sure sign of healthy medium, there's nothing sterile about coco.

All about Enchytraeidae | white pot worms - A Chaos of Delight

The Enchytraeidae are a very common group of normally un-pigmented terrestrial oligochaeta, commonly known as pot worms

www.chaosofdelight.org

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That's cool bud that is a nice shot but I would expect a wider array of stuff in soil with salts and even more so in organic stuff but then again who knows though I've never stuck that dirt under the scope myself to check that I can remember anyway sure I've seen dirt from outside under a scope but not so much grow soil

conor c said:

That's cool bud that is a nice shot but I would expect a wider array of stuff in soil with salts and even more so in organic stuff but then again who knows though I've never stuck that dirt under the scope myself to check that I can remember anyway sure I've seen dirt from outside under a scope but not so much grow soil

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Hey Conor, I think regular garden soil (in my area) would be fairly low it's quite sandy but a bag of compost idk I'd expect that to have a good range of organisms, I've got my tomatoes in compost I'll grab a sample and check it out hopefully over the weekend, did you look at the run off video in the link?
It's heaving with life and what you're seeing isn't it all it's only the background noise so to speak too small to see properly...this is when I wish I had scanning electron microscope, they can see down to atom level omg what a toy lol

Edit...Afterthought...testing a new bag isn't ideal I should test a growing plant aswell?

Outdoors, there probably isn't anything better than natural soil -or what I would call dirt. You can add manures, meals, compost, worms, fungi, etc.....and it will just keep getting better and better as time goes on. It will balance itself....

...however, indoors is a whole different approach. I don't believe there is as much of a benefit to attempting to bring all of the outdoor "stuff" indoors. You don't have Nature assisting you when you grow indoors. YOU are Nature! YOU are the one who needs to take care of any and all pathogens that might arise indoors. It becomes a "sterile" environment, indoors, where the entire focus is on growing the plant and not on chasing after pests, predators and pathogens -especially in small grows such as tents and closets. In such condensed settings, pathogens can get out of hand very quickly. If, for example, you get mites indoors, then you can't rely on ladybugs to get rid of them. In addition, predatory bugs also poop all over the plants, too. You don't have any rainstorms to wash it all off....not to even mention how much pollution that rain water has in it (in populated areas). Don't believe me? Collect a jar of rainwater sometime and just look at it!...but I digress....

For me, indoors is all about cleanliness -"laboratory conditions." It allows me to grow inside my house without creating any secondary problems. "Synthetic" fertilizer may be interpreted as something bad because of how we, as humans, perceive the idea of eating synthetic food. A better word (in my opinion) would be "molecular" fertilizer -because all the NPK has been broken down to molecules that are instantly available to the plants.

Outdoor growing relies on God's input. Indoor growing...I am God!

skywalker707 said:

I agree that organics is the best usually, my question that follow is why around 50% of cannabis cup winners are synthetically grown? There was an old article from high times that was reflecting on what nutes previous cup winners used. Long ago deleted.

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I personally wouldn’t put much merit into what “wins cups” at cannabis competitions. It’s been a long time “secret” that most cups are rigged/bought and paid for. I’ve even read reviews in forums by people who’ve been to cups saying the judges had their heads up their asses or were paid off. Also, I base what I know about cannabis from my personal use and experience, not other people’s anecdotes. I stopped trusting critic’s reviews/opinions a long time ago, because there is almost always some bias happening. Not only that, but what experience does the critic/judge have that makes their opinion more valued than what I can taste and feel for myself through my own experience of smoking for over 20 years and growing for more than 10? I don’t fall for the “trust me bro” anymore

skywalker707 said:

Flavour and smell usually yes, but potency not always. Its hard to beat THC levels with grown organically chemdawg or og kush vs synthetic. Strictly in THC potency.

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I don’t know how long you’ve been smoking, but I regularly smoke herb that is around 20% THC that blows the doors off of some 30% strains in terms of potency. If THC was the ultimate deciding factor of potency, dabs/hash would be the most potent always, but it’s not. I’ve smoked herb that got me way higher than Fat 1g dabs. There is obviously a concert effect happening with all the different cannabinoids/terpenes that has a greater net effect on potency than THC content alone.

skywalker707 said:

Actually a lot of the best weed grown is combination of organics and synthetics like Cannabiotix who have some proper fire and lots of prestigious cannabis cups to back them up.

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A lot of the best weed grown will never make to or see a cannabis cup. It’s often times old time heads and gardeners who put out the best herb, that usually stays in tight nit circles or may still trickle down to the broader black market. No commercial grows that I’m aware of are producing anything close to what I would consider the best weed. If you’ve never smoked good organic greenhouse weed, I’d add that to your list or experiences to try, because that’s the very best weed that I’ve tried. Multiple strains, sativa, indica, it didn’t matter. It was always the best

Absolutely spot-on!^^^^ @cdgmoney250!

When I first got my medical card back in the day, I was expecting to be blown away at the quality and variety of all the different strains. In reality, what a big "nothing-burger" it was. All of it was pretty mediocre in comparison to some of the "illegal" "street" weed that I had been getting prior. And it was nowhere near the intense flavor of some of the stuff being home-grown at the time, either. Live and learn!

Even after I started growing my own again -actually learning the proper way- it took me several grows and seed purchases before I got anything that impressed me. It takes time (unless you happen to be lucky).

@tstick it sounds like we had very similar experiences. I moved to Colorado in 2014 to start growing and got my med card right away. I spent over $3000 at dispensaries in the first few months I was there “experiencing” what the market had to offer. What a disappointment that was coming from only ever smoking black market weed haha. We live and learn just like you said! What a great teacher experience is

Star Dog said:

Check out the microbial life in coco getting fed mineral salts and chlorine daily, I've yet to look at soil but I doubt it'll be as rich in diversity?

https://www.thcfarmer.com/threads/dates-notes-and-things-of-interest.164145/post-3202802

One could argue there's a microbial side to growing in coco it's right there to be seen?
View attachment 5468072
Pot worms are a sure sign of healthy medium, there's nothing sterile about coco.

All about Enchytraeidae | white pot worms - A Chaos of Delight

The Enchytraeidae are a very common group of normally un-pigmented terrestrial oligochaeta, commonly known as pot worms

www.chaosofdelight.org

Click to expand...

I always get little worms and springtails in my coco, I love them! lol

Proper hydroponic grown weed with pure conventional nutes is hands down, not even a close call, no competition, better than organic grown weed whether in recycled living soil, super soil, KNF, SIPs...

Potency, flavor, smell, smoothness of the vapor on the inhale and exhale… all better conventional hydro. Been vaping a long time and grown a bunch of different ways and tried tons of different peoples herb. There is no debate. If you know, you know.

grilla666 said:

ladybugs are a good defense.

any thoughts you can share?

thanks

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Beneficial/predatory insects are a great defense, I highly recommend them especially if applied preemptively. That said Ladybugs in particular are one of the least effective predatory insects, same with praying mantises.
Insects have multiple life stages, egg, larva/nymph, pupa, and adult. Some insects have fewer life stages but I think most go through four. Ladybugs as we recognize them are in their final life stage, in this stage they don't eat very often they are just looking for a place to lay eggs and die. They are sold at this stage because Ladybugs overwinter in huge clusters and people are able to easily scoop them up and sell them when they cluster like this. Ladybugs in the nymph stage are much more effective predators but commercial operations never sell them at this stage.
Praying mantises are highly territorial with other mantises and will eat all their fellow mantises within a fairly large territory so you will be left with only a few.
There are many much more effective predatory insects, some will even continue to kill harmful insects after they are full, they kill just to kill. Sounds brutal but that's what you want when trying to stave off an infestation. There are lot's of different places that sell predator insects, this a place that I usually order from, https://www.arbico-organics.com/category/beneficial-insects-organisms. There might be better places, do some research, but it's a good place to research what's available.

I'm an outdoor grower so I can't comment on the efficacy of predatory insects for indoor grows.

@Observe & Report

“Trust me bro”
“you just aren’t using right the nute line”
“you can’t even flush with organics”
“Synthetic buds just LOOK better”
“I can’t keep my plant fed with organics”
“But they keep winning cups with xyz nute line”
“I get 3x the growth rate with synthetic”
“Plants get chunkier on a synthetic diet”

I was wondering when somebody was gonna grab the bait

Fish scale said:

I always get little worms and springtails in my coco, I love them! lol

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Me too bro, I love those little characters, they eat away roots for me and shit out fertiliser!

My springtail numbers have diminished quite badly idk what it is I'm doing, occasionally I see a slight increase but it never gets to a proper springtail fest anymore....if I were to guess I say hid was a warmer environment for them, I remember fricken clouds of them on the surface of nutrient trays now I need to search for them.

Did you know springtails are blonde's lol

How could any gardener not love them

I think that if you pay attention to your plants needs and grow with intent and passion the product of that passion is going to be something great. Some folks grow organically for philosophical, environmental, or spiritual reasons. For anyone who doesn't have a preference and
is just curious I think they should try growing both ways and see which they prefer for themselves. Definitely don't rely on cannabis cup results or people on a forum to form your opinion. Or based on what you can get from dispensaries, grow your own and decide for yourself.

For me it's organic all the way no contest, but(and this took me a while to figure out) not everybody is me and you might be looking for different qualities than me. There are some very talented and passionate growers on this forum that use synthetic nutrients, I have respect for them.

That's how I feel about nutrients, when it comes to pesticides and herbicides I wouldn't touch anything that isn't organic(and some that are) with a ten foot pole.

Plants that are grown in coco are superior because if done correctly you cannot overwater coco which gets rid of the issue of overwatering and underwatering in soil. You can also have a lot of microorganisms in coco the same as you can in soil. Also, plants that are grown in coco grow faster than plants that grow in soil which means you get bigger yields compared to soil. Plants that have issues in coco are a lot easier to fix then plants grown in soil. And I hear the arguement that plants grown in soil have better terps and stuff but if the plants are terpy and have a lot of terpenes then it's going to have a lot of terps even if it's grown in coco so that's kind of a non-argument to me. And Hydro weed is more potent if you ask me, have you ever been to a dealer back in the day and he's like. I've got that hydro man! And when he's got the hydro it's always super dank!"

Fish scale said:

Plants that are grown in coco are superior because if done correctly you cannot overwater coco which gets rid of the issue of overwatering and underwatering in soil. You can also have a lot of microorganisms in coco the same as you can in soil. Also, plants that are grown in coco grow faster than plants that grow in soil which means you get bigger yields compared to soil. Plants that have issues in coco are a lot easier to fix then plants grown in soil. And I hear the arguement that plants grown in soil have better terps and stuff but if the plants are terpy and have a lot of terpenes then it's going to have a lot of terps even if it's grown in coco so that's kind of a non-argument to me. And Hydro weed is more potent if you ask me, have you ever been to a dealer back in the day and he's like. I've got that hydro man! And when he's got the hydro it's always super dank!"

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There's no competition bud Coco is a close second but soil grown definitely tastes and smells better imo I've had good hydro but its never as good as the soil grown don't get me wrong if I was going hydro Coco is what I'd use

Star Dog said:

Hey Conor, I think regular garden soil (in my area) would be fairly low it's quite sandy but a bag of compost idk I'd expect that to have a good range of organisms, I've got my tomatoes in compost I'll grab a sample and check it out hopefully over the weekend, did you look at the run off video in the link?
It's heaving with life and what you're seeing isn't it all it's only the background noise so to speak too small to see properly...this is when I wish I had scanning electron microscope, they can see down to atom level omg what a toy lol

Edit...Afterthought...testing a new bag isn't ideal I should test a growing plant aswell?

Click to expand...

Aye it be nice there pricey though idk I think even with it being sandy you still might suprise yourself where I'm at it goes from sand near the town and harbour yet up my way has farms and old forest so the dirt is a bit better I seen the video bud it's pretty cool like u said you be better off testing it after a plants been growing in it a bit mate

cdgmoney250 said:

I personally wouldn’t put much merit into what “wins cups” at cannabis competitions. It’s been a long time “secret” that most cups are rigged/bought and paid for. I’ve even read reviews in forums by people who’ve been to cups saying the judges had their heads up their asses or were paid off. Also, I base what I know about cannabis from my personal use and experience, not other people’s anecdotes. I stopped trusting critic’s reviews/opinions a long time ago, because there is almost always some bias happening. Not only that, but what experience does the critic/judge have that makes their opinion more valued than what I can taste and feel for myself through my own experience of smoking for over 20 years and growing for more than 10? I don’t fall for the “trust me bro” anymore



I don’t know how long you’ve been smoking, but I regularly smoke herb that is around 20% THC that blows the doors off of some 30% strains in terms of potency. If THC was the ultimate deciding factor of potency, dabs/hash would be the most potent always, but it’s not. I’ve smoked herb that got me way higher than Fat 1g dabs. There is obviously a concert effect happening with all the different cannabinoids/terpenes that has a greater net effect on potency than THC content alone.



A lot of the best weed grown will never make to or see a cannabis cup. It’s often times old time heads and gardeners who put out the best herb, that usually stays in tight nit circles or may still trickle down to the broader black market. No commercial grows that I’m aware of are producing anything close to what I would consider the best weed. If you’ve never smoked good organic greenhouse weed, I’d add that to your list or experiences to try, because that’s the very best weed that I’ve tried. Multiple strains, sativa, indica, it didn’t matter. It was always the best

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Strictly in THC potency, can you read? Butane Hash Oil is far stronger than normal bud rolled into a joint if made from the same plant. It's not even close. Here you go an exercise roll 0.6 grams of a plant bud which is 1 grams you love on a joint. Then roll another joint with the remaining 0.4 grams of the same bud in another joint, but this time add 0.2 grams of butane hash oil from the same plant on the bud. Come back later and tell me the second joint wasn't stronger.. And i never said overall potency.. I said strictly THC potency.. The terpenes in the plant make THC cross the blood barrier more or less. A plant that is 35% THC can feel less strong than a plant that is 20% i am well aware of this. I never said i am not, or contradicted this statement. We don't depend on THC alone for overall effect. But usually the highest testing THC strains are more indica leaning and they can take more nutes and more chemical nutes for that matter too..

I smoke from 22 years. And i prefer organic weed most of the time. As far as corrupt cups and competitions, do you have proof, beside what you read around? Show me definite proof majority of cannabis cups are rigged. What makes you think your taste is better than the taste of the judges in the competitions? Which smoke often 2 times longer than you? And have smoked perhaps way more than you and have way more refined palete than you? Better for most of the people or just you? Why do you think your biases are weaker than a panel of judges which are leading the whole industry who make a blind tests on majority of cups? (besides the supposed corrupt cups, now proof the majority of cups were corrupt)..
What makes you think this unknown small organic gardens can produce better quality than large companies growing thousands of plants, which grow both organically and synthetically? Which have far better resources and way more often better knowledge when we speak about the top breeders in the world.. So what makes you think you can get better phenotype expression or better growth when growing 20 plants with limited resources vs someone growing 5000 plants with almost unlimited resources?

A lot of great weed doesn't go to cup, true, but i bet that most of the cup winners in most of the competitions blew out of the water most of the very weed you envision. I have personally grown great outdoor not greenhouse but open field weed. I done my exercise. I've smoked a great weed i grown synthetically indoors too.. That i can compare with the best outdoor organic i've grown too.. I grow from 15 years and i smoke from 22.. And i believe heavy feeding indica plants can be done better with synthetics and mostly sativa dominants are better with organics..

I kinda agree with the strains that win the most cups on average.. Like go find me better sativa than great phenotype of super lemon haze before 2012 or better sativa on average from the best phenotypes of super silver haze before 2000.. or jack herer before 96th.. good luck with this assignment. I speak about the strains that dominate various cups, not just 1 cup.. I love kosher kush as well, or mk ultra or billy kimber og.. if they didn't won these cups perhaps i wouldn't have smoked many of these strains, and i tried at least 20 different type of og kush and 30+ different types of sativas which i don't even like more than the ones dominating the cups for so long in so many different competitions..

This is a bit like there is world boxing champions and amateurs boxing and training for fun.. They are very good at sparring, but never had great competitions and which nobody knows worldwide.. And you coming to say don't watch cup winners they don't matter, is the same like saying don't watch who is the world champion in boxing, or mma this guy from the gym will beat him in boxing or mma, yes sure thing.. most of the random nobodies you envision never been tested seriously.. and perhaps are not that great in the big picture

cdgmoney250 said:

@Observe & Report

“Trust me bro”
“you just aren’t using right the nute line”
“you can’t even flush with organics”
“Synthetic buds just LOOK better”
“I can’t keep my plant fed with organics”
“But they keep winning cups with xyz nute line”
“I get 3x the growth rate with synthetic”
“Plants get chunkier on a synthetic diet”

I was wondering when somebody was gonna grab the bait

Click to expand...

Do you know what people choice means in cups? Means bozos like you can buy their own kit and judge the very flowers that win cups themselves.. It started around 5 years ago.. and now it is a standard part of High Times Cups and other regional cannabis competitions..