Organic soil grow, necessary to flush?

I have some ladies late in flowering and ive been looking into how to flush properly but what ive read has sent me mixed messages. Is it necessary to flush if ive gone 100% organic from the start, including slow release ferts ie guano, bone meal,and compost?? all my books say too flush but i dont have any organic ones so i ask your opinions? also ive heard from growers in the past that organically grown tastes better BEACAUSE they dont flush in result not washing away any taste 'good' or 'bad'....

thanks!
 

madodah

Well-Known Member
Flushing is a mental hangover from hydro and chemical growing. If your grow medium is correctly prepared to sustain plants throughout their lifes cycles without chemical supplements you've created a living soil complete with microbe colonies that service plant requirements. What would be the purpose of flushing?

Taste is dependent on plant genetics, nothing else. Think about it; if plant taste/smoke was dependent on what's in the grow medium or (if one believes wild marketing claims) supplements, most would taste like bat/bird guano, decomposed cow manure and whatever else is in the grow medium.
 

Spanishfly

Well-Known Member
madodah - totally agree - I did an experiment one year, and found that there was no detectable difference between ´flushed´ and ´unflushed´plants.

Do tomato growers flush their plants? Can we taste ferts (generally horse shit) in the tomatoes we buy ?? NO to both.

It is another Old Wives´Tale read and believed by the naive kids who have never grown anything else. Who then just repeat the myth.
 

Dinosaur Bone

Active Member
Do tomato growers flush their plants? Can we taste ferts (generally horse shit) in the tomatoes we buy ?? NO to both.
What nobody else flushes their tomatos??? :lol: The onliest change in late season watering that any reg. gardner does is "turning off the water", [or tapering it off] to speed up the harvest, and gitter' done before hard frost.

If I did taste fertilizer in my tomato's it would be the special urea nitrate fertilizer my DOG applies.... thank god that flavor doesn't come through.
 

madodah

Well-Known Member
madodah - totally agree - I did an experiment one year, and found that there was no detectable difference between ´flushed´ and ´unflushed´plants.

Do tomato growers flush their plants? Can we taste ferts (generally horse shit) in the tomatoes we buy ?? NO to both.

It is another Old Wives´Tale read and believed by the naive kids who have never grown anything else. Who then just repeat the myth.
Myths encouraged by aggressive marketing of endless and mostly useless supplements.
 

Nullis

Moderator
Flushing is a mental hangover from hydro and chemical growing. If your grow medium is correctly prepared to sustain plants throughout their lifes cycles without chemical supplements you've created a living soil complete with microbe colonies that service plant requirements. What would be the purpose of flushing?

Taste is dependent on plant genetics, nothing else. Think about it; if plant taste/smoke was dependent on what's in the grow medium or (if one believes wild marketing claims) supplements, most would taste like bat/bird guano, decomposed cow manure and whatever else is in the grow medium.
From an issue of Cannabis Culture, words of Ed Rosenthal:

"The genetic code determines an organism's potential to grow. The environment determines how that potential is acted upon. Think of the genetics code as a set of plans and alternative plans that direct the plant's life progresses. It holds the information that the plant needs to grow. For instance, if the plant is shaded it senses the lack of light and produces hormones(gibberellins) that induce the stem to grow taller so it can reach the light.

The potential of a plant to produce THC and terpines is affected tremendously by the environment. Total production of cannabinoids is mostly dependent on growth because a large plant produces more THC then a small one, even if they are of equal potency. Thus, growing a large healthy plant utilizing intense light and plentiful fertilizers increases total THC production.

Additionally, plants grown under intense light produce a higher percentage of THC than those grown under dimmer light. High intensity light increases both growth and potency. In high-quality plants, the percentage of THC also increases as the amount of UV-B light increases.

Nutrients also affect the quality of the high. In an experiment on fertilizers done in the year 2000, clones produced vastly different quantities of bud depending on the fertilizers used. The buds looked different too, and each produced subtly different odors."


The keyword here is gene expression. It is why even genetically identical twins don't end up looking exactly alike, nor will they necessarily have the same health problems growing up; because diet, level of physical activity, other personal preferences/habits and a plethora of other environmental factors (exposure to pollutants, toxins, drugs, biological agents, etc.) will influence their development. Certain diseases (obesity, diabetes, cancers) for instance, a person might have a genetic predisposition to them but the outcome is ultimately reliant on confounding factors.

As far as cannabis goes, characteristics like a particular taste or smell are most notable when the plant was grown in ideal conditions and thus allowed to express its genetic potential to the fullest. Odor and taste are the result of the hydrocarbon profile, which includes those terpenes and phenolic compounds. While the genetics of a plant will primarily direct the manner in which these compounds are to be synthesized, the environment (which includes fertilizers used) influences when and how much- at least to some degree. Of course, a plant couldn't express any traits beyond that of its genetic potential, but the environmental conditions determine if such traits will be expressed to the fullest.
I've also heard that sulfur is an important component of the odoriferous components of cannabis, and thus is necessary in abundance in order for a plant to express odor to its full potential.

Obviously we can't taste the fertilizers themselves in the buds we smoke, because the fertilizers themselves are not taken up by the plant- the nutritional components of those organic fertilizers are. The plant doesn't directly absorb the guanos, manures or meals; they are broken down by microbes into the more basic components (nitrogen, phosphorous, potassium, calcium, magnesium, sulfur, etc.) which are available to the roots, or to the mycelium that assist the roots in the assimilation. These components are then utilized by the plant; assembled into amino acids, chloroplasts and other plant structures, or stored.

Beyond all of that, the herb needs to be dried slowly and properly cured; there is still a lot going on inside of the cells that make up the buds we just harvested. The THC undergoes a change into its more psychoactive forms, and the chlorophyll breaks down. So while I have never smoked weed that tasted like guano, I have smoked some that tasted like chemicals because it was likely grown with synthetics and not properly flushed.
 

Nullis

Moderator
Organic fertilizers cant burn right??
They certainly can. You can overfeed with organic fertilizers just as with synthetic/chemical ones, sometimes it is just a little more difficult to. Organically grown buds that were fed too much (nitrogen and phosphorous being the primary culprits) could probably taste about as bad and smoke as harshly as synthetically grown buds that weren't flushed properly.
 

haze2

Well-Known Member
NWchronno, Ill tell you rite now that it depends on what your growing in and what your fertilizers are to determine whether your going to be flushing or not. Ill tell you ANY BUDS THAT YOU SMOKE THAT ARE FLUSHED CORRECTLY WILL BE A MUCH MORE SMOOTHER SMOKING (NO BURN IN THE THROAT) AND IT WILL ALSO BE A MUCH CLEANER FLAVOR THAN YOU WOULD GET FROM A NON FLUSHED. Haze
 

plaguedog

Active Member
You dont flush organics out of soil, it doesn't happen. I do use just water and molasses for the last two weeks of flower though.
 

plaguedog

Active Member
Surely what?

THERE IS NO NEED TO FLUSH IN ORGANIC AMENDED SOIL. It's BS you are not going to remove all the excess nutrients with just water. The plant uses what it needs when grown organically as opposed to hydro, flushing comes from the hydro crowd. Have done it both ways people, it makes no difference in organics. Dry/Cure your bud the right way and it will be plenty smooth.
 

plaguedog

Active Member
Flushing is a mental hangover from hydro and chemical growing. If your grow medium is correctly prepared to sustain plants throughout their lifes cycles without chemical supplements you've created a living soil complete with microbe colonies that service plant requirements. What would be the purpose of flushing?

Taste is dependent on plant genetics, nothing else. Think about it; if plant taste/smoke was dependent on what's in the grow medium or (if one believes wild marketing claims) supplements, most would taste like bat/bird guano, decomposed cow manure and whatever else is in the grow medium.
Great post.
 

madodah

Well-Known Member
Surely what?

THERE IS NO NEED TO FLUSH IN ORGANIC AMENDED SOIL. It's BS you are not going to remove all the excess nutrients with just water. The plant uses what it needs when grown organically as opposed to hydro, flushing comes from the hydro crowd. Have done it both ways people, it makes no difference in organics. Dry/Cure your bud the right way and it will be plenty smooth.
Like wanting to flush organic grows, I have the feeling many new growers aren't even aware of the benefits of proper drying and then curing. Which makes me wonder how much reading and research beyond immediate gratification purposes (posts) they even bother with.
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
From an issue of Cannabis Culture, words of Ed Rosenthal:

"The genetic code determines an organism's potential to grow. The environment determines how that potential is acted upon....
Have to agree with Nul here. Great post. The taste (smell) has as much to do with genetics as it does with environment. And the quality of the smoke is dependent upon many factors, drying/curing being a large part of retaining good flavor and removing harsh green flavors (but not creating flavor).

People who say they can't tell the difference between a flushed bud and non-flushed bud are tripping. To begin, you can taste the chlorophyll... no argument there. Chlorosis benefits smoke quality by sucking some of the chlorophyll out before drying/curing even beings. This also reveals secondary pigments, and you "eat with your eyes". Curing is really just the anaerobic breakdown of chlorophyll, this is why curing makes herb taste better. If you can get a jump start by removing as much 'green' as possible pre-harvest, you have a jump start on the curing process.

Now, if you are growing with an abundance of slow release food in your mix, then flushing won't work. But if you are in a soil-less mix with little slow release food, then flushing will work. More than one way to do organics my friends, and soil is a loosely used word.
 

plaguedog

Active Member
Age old argument here.

I don't flush and just about everyone that smokes the well dried and cured product loves the taste compared to commercially grown shit that is probably never cured. Thats where I can tell the difference. Try out a bud that is cured for a few weeks and one that has been curing for six months and tell me there is no difference.... Flush or not....

"Now, if you are growing with an abundance of slow release food in your mix, then flushing won't work. But if you are in a soil-less mix with little slow release food, then flushing will work. More than one way to do organics my friends, and soil is a loosely used word."

I do somewhat agree with you here, I always use a nice amended soil mix in my grows. Having the necessary nutrients is a key to getting healthier rhizosphere which intern leads to better yields then using bottled organics with light amounts of amendments in the mix. Now with me just using molasses and water at the end it obviously cuts down a little and that is in large part to do with molasses being a natural isotonic agent......
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
Age old argument here.

I don't flush and just about everyone that smokes the well dried and cured product loves the taste compared to commercially grown shit that is probably never cured. Thats where I can tell the difference. Try out a bud that is cured for a few weeks and one that has been curing for six months and tell me there is no difference.... Flush or not....

I do somewhat agree with you here, I always use a nice amended soil mix in my grows. Having the necessary nutrients is a key to getting healthier rhizosphere which intern leads to better yields then using bottled organics with light amounts of amendments in the mix. Now with me just using molasses and water at the end it obviously cuts down a little and that is in large part to do with molasses being a natural isotonic agent......
Well, we can't compare anything to commercial herb, that is another conversation, any homegrown is obviously better than commercial. We are comparing homegrown Cannabis to flushed homegrown Cannabis, organic of course. And I will re-iterate that some media can be flushed and some cannot. Heavily amended mixes have residual food left over at the end, while mostly soil-less mixes can be flushed. It all depends on your priorities. If you want the tastiest smoke ever, try a soil-less run and flush the 'shit' out of it for the last two to three weeks.

And yes, 6 month cure is about my favorite amount of curing time. Remember friends, curing is an anaerobic process, so keep them jars sealed.
 

haze2

Well-Known Member
Have to agree with Nul here. Great post. The taste (smell) has as much to do with genetics as it does with environment. And the quality of the smoke is dependent upon many factors, drying/curing being a large part of retaining good flavor and removing harsh green flavors (but not creating flavor).

People who say they can't tell the difference between a flushed bud and non-flushed bud are tripping. To begin, you can taste the chlorophyll... no argument there. Chlorosis benefits smoke quality by sucking some of the chlorophyll out before drying/curing even beings. This also reveals secondary pigments, and you "eat with your eyes". Curing is really just the anaerobic breakdown of chlorophyll, this is why curing makes herb taste better. If you can get a jump start by removing as much 'green' as possible pre-harvest, you have a jump start on the curing process.

Now, if you are growing with an abundance of slow release food in your mix, then flushing won't work. But if you are in a soil-less mix with little slow release food, then flushing will work. More than one way to do organics my friends, and soil is a loosely used word.

I cant AGREE MORE!!!!! VERY WELL POSTED!!!!
 
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