Organic Growing Made Easy & Fox Farms Ocean Forest!

Originally Posted by hooked.on.ponics

This isn't actually true, but it all stems around the definition of "organic" you want to use. Ammonium nitrate is a naturally occurring chemical that is formed by a chemical reaction between ammonia and nitric acid. Both of which are naturally occurring substances in soil. The buzzword "organic" is commonly used to describe a process of making things without using "magical science" or whatever mumbo-jumbo you're concerned might make one chemical structure different than an absolutely identical chemical structure made by a more natural process.



"LOL. That is all I really have to read to be able to tell that you really don't get it. Don't be ashamed though, most people start off like you, this is just how we're being raised after the "Green" Revolution.

It has nothing to do with the fact that ions are ions and plants only absorb nitrogen as either ammonium (NH4+) or nitrate (NO3-), phosphorous as phosphate, potassium as K+, etc. It isn't entirely about carbon, either. Organic in this case has to do with something being related to or derived from living matter. Maybe you never heard, but nobody ever had to pour ammonium nitrate on an old growth forest. This is mostly because soil is alive, and the microbes and other organisms are cycling organic matter, nourishing the plants. This is, essentially, both why the Earth isn't covered in death, shit and what allows plants to acquire nutrients for growth (energy they get from the sun).

There are several things you have to understand about how soil actually works (in terms of chemistry and cation exchange), how plants work (in terms of roots behavior\nutrient assimilation), and what microbes\organism living in soil do for the plant in order to be able to understand and appreciate organics or gardening with the soil food web. I've written endlessly about this kind of stuff here in organics. Practically all organisms that live in soil are aiding in this cycle in some way. Plant roots produce and excrete substances through their roots (exudates) to attract micro-organisms to the rhizosphere. The rhizosphere, or root-zone is the area immediately surrounding the roots and this is where nutrients are absorbed. Microbes living in the rhizosphere are like little packets of fertilizer; each organism is producing a certain degree of 'waste' in the form of plant usable nutrients. The microbes are turning organic matter into usable nutrients. Most of the elements in soil, including those that plants need, are locked up in complex compounds which plants cannot absorb. Phosphorous is an example of a heavily bound element, and even high P fertilizer applied to soil will quickly (A.) Leach or (B) Precipitate from the soil solution or become locked up in organic matter. In neither case is that phosphorous plant available. The microflora and in particular symbiotic fungi are [ultimately] responsible for a good deal of the phosphorous acquisition by plants.


The organisms do more than just feed plants, though. Microbes are responsible for regulating the pH in the rhizosphere to enhance nutrient assimilation. Bacteria are protected by an alkaline bio-slime that they produce. Fungi produce organic acids and enzymes to digest minerals and organic materials. Beneficial microbes are in direct competition for resources against the comparatively rarer pathogenic or "bad" organisms. Some protect through direct means: some make their own antibiotics (e.g. Trichoderma, Streptomyces) and\or induce host-plant resistance. They also produce a plethora of other compounds including plant growth regulators that enhance root\plant growth. Mycorrhizal fungi are in symbiotic interaction with the plants, exchanging water and nutrients (such as phosphorous) for carbohydrates. The thread-like fungal hyphae are sleeker, they can colonize an entire substrate over vast distances and go places where plant roots cannot. Not to mention what these organisms do for the soil structure.

The problem with the chemical fertilizers is that they do absolutely nothing for soil quality. They use high NPK chemical fertilizers and the majority of it isn't even taken up by the plants; it washes right by them and into the water table. They decimate mycelium, microbes and other beneficial organisms such as earthworms (which do amazing things for soil). Due to this the soil quality gets worse over time and their solution is to apply more fertilizer. Synthetic pesticides are typically not narrow-spectrum, and tend to have wide-ranging and unforeseen effects on ecosystems. Most bugs are good, and that is a fact. Good bugs such as spiders, lady bugs, praying mantises, predator mites, etc. eat all kinds of pests, but they too are vulnerable. Insects and bees especially are absolutely essential to plant pollination; essential to your ability to buy produce and flowers! Colony collapse disorder is no joke and synthetic pesticides are a likely significant contributing factor.

I am not against hydroponics indoors with synthetic\chemical nutrients, that is different. I just love soil and also prefer it indoors as well."

The words of fellow RIU member @Nullis.

Cheers bossman

I used this soil mix:
-1.5cubic feet Fox Farm Ocean Forest
-38cups Wiggle Worms Earthworm Casting (1-0-0)
-10cups Perlite(may add more eventually)
-11tsp Rooters Mycorrhizae
*Soil Base
__________________________
-1.5cups Indonesian Hi-P Bat Guano (.5-13-.2)
-1.5cups Algamin Kelp Meal (1-0-2)
-1.5cups Espoma Tomato Tone (3-4-6)
*Nutritional Amendments
__________________________
-1.5cups Azomite(used as a rock dust)
-0.5cup Espoma Green sand
-1.25cups Hi-Cal Lime
*Mineral Amendments
To Grow This Happy Plant:



#GottaLoveOrganics

intenseneal said:

I use FFOF and Happy Frog straight out of the bag. Green lush happy plants and no need to use veg nutes.

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Thank you for posting this comment.....people go ape shit trying to ammend thier soil when the TRUTH is you dont have to get carried away with allot of that. The question was using FFOF.....I use FF happy frog to start and veg...I add nothing...absolutly nothing....once the seeds pop and get going...then I start watering with ph adjusted water....If you notice there in not a posted NPK ratio on happy frog......but the fact of the matter is that there is enough nutrient in that soil mix that ...like intense said.....happy, lush, beautiful, green plants.....without any signs of nut def.....only on a couple of occasions I had to up the mg just ever so slightly....the other thing I like about FFHF is NO BUGS!!!!....from seed to first transplant, if you use a standard plastic beer cup to start them, is about 14 days. I then move them into a one gallon pot again using FFHF....and they are good to go for an additional 15 to 20 days....then repeat the process to a slightly larger pot until you have sexed ( if using regular seed )....once I have sexed I transplant into the pot that I will flower in...usually a 5 gallon if indoor...on this final transplant....this is where I use FF Ocean Forest....this is the soil they will stay in until harvest...I continue to veg for ten days before I flip the switch to 12/12 so that the girl can make a full adjustment and recover from any transplant shock.....at this point I gradually start my feeding schedule starting off gradually......YOU DONT NEED A SHIT TON OF NUTS ON YOUR GIRLS!!!!!! they do very well with light to medium feedings....I have had GREAT results using this method.....and finally as you progress in the flowering stage just look at the girls closly....they will tell you what they need...and usually small amounts of nuts will fix it.... A good friend of mine who grew with some of the big names on the other side of the pond taught me.....YOU DONT NEED TO GO APE SHIT WITH FEEDING...its allot harder to correct problems from over feeding and making those types of mistakes....and I can attest to that because just like every grower here and around the world...I have made my fair share of mistakes doing just that....so Peace

Sincerely420 said:

166 views....0 replies...Well then.

I got my rock dust. Went ahead and added two and a half cups...
And we'll call it a day

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PS...I didnt mention this in my previous post but this is important....KEEP YOUR GROW SPACE CLEAN...think of it as a lab.....one of the best things you can do for your micro enviorment...

Ok so you mentioned feeding and a feeding schedule in your post above yea?? Yea..
Well the reason ppl go "ape shit" and amend their soil is so that they don't have to worry about a "feeding schedule". Ever.
If you amend the soil before you use it and you can go H20 only from start to finish.

Some say there's enough from start to finish like you, and some say otherwise...Alls I know is that my FFOF certainly has enough juice to go the distance.
Also, if you transplant using grow bags, you will NOT encounter transplant shock. Also, you take the time pH your water for whatever reason, and I don't worry about it because I know my soil buffers the pH of everything I put in it....
But should I give you hell because you pH your water and I think thats VERY unnecessary given the fact that I haven't done it it?

Seems like you got a beef with something someone said, but I certainly didn't say that you couldn't grow using FFOF and nothing more..
But

& I garden on carpet lol. Shit is CLEAN!

Sincerely420 said:

Ok so you mentioned feeding and a feeding schedule in your post above yea?? Yea..
Well the reason ppl go "ape shit" and amend their soil is so that they don't have to worry about a "feeding schedule". Ever.
If you amend the soil before you use it and you can go H20 only from start to finish.

Some say there's enough from start to finish like you, and some say otherwise...Alls I know is that my FFOF certainly has enough juice to go the distance.
Also, if you transplant using grow bags, you will NOT encounter transplant shock. Also, you take the time pH your water for whatever reason, and I don't worry about it because I know my soil buffers the pH of everything I put in it....
But should I give you hell because you pH your water and I think thats VERY unnecessary given the fact that I haven't done it it?

Seems like you got a beef with something someone said, but I certainly didn't say that you couldn't grow using FFOF and nothing more..
But

& I garden on carpet lol. Shit is CLEAN!

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I wont and cant disagree with you....perhaps I did come across like that...my apologies.....I was meerly trying to make the point that there is a tendency for people to think that more is better when in most cases it really is not....that was it....I was not saying that YOU were doing something bad or wrong....

It's all good bro. A lot of things can be made simpler than they are true!
But likewise, you can make the soil better by amending it..If that wasn't the case, this organics section wouldn't exist

Sincerely420 said:

It's all good bro. A lot of things can be made simpler than they are true!
But likewise, you can make the soil better by amending it..If that wasn't the case, this organics section wouldn't exist

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Again...I do not disagree but there is this pre concieved notion with allot of growers ( some new, some old ) that they have to somehow create this magical super soil in order for them to have good results....and thats really not the case. I to ammend my soils more so for my outdoor gardens but that can get way out there for someone starting out....and you pointed out that perhaps I was lashing out at something someone else said....well there is some truth to that....because on allot of these threads people spew out allot of bunk. I'm an old school grower...been at it for a while now and as you pointed out.....you can have great results without being a mad scientist!! Fox Farm Ocean Forest can and will take you to the finish line!! And by the way....I love my smoke grown in soil....oh my goodness!!! So I only grow in soil....but By saying that I'm not argueing that hydro does not wk and so on...

The more you learn about soil, the more you'll realize that there's more too it man.
You just gotta look a little deeper..And believe me, I'm ALWAYS lookin' for ways to improve anything that I can.

This magical super soil that your talking about, I think it exists. If you couldn't make better soils, FFOF would cost the same an Miracle grow and other cheaper soils, which are amended with few ingredients.
FFOF costs more per bag bcuz there' more in it per bag brother. That's fact, just your the labels.
And it's not the growers need to creat a super soil to be successful, growing in one just makes the process easier.
Like no problems at all easy.

For example, if you add more earthworm castings to your FFOF, you unleash the power of Nitrogen in your soil by adding more Nitrogen fixing baceria.
Adding more organic matter to the soil mean the potential for more life in the soil, which means the potential for more available nutrients..

Sure you can get by just fine with FFOF. That's true.
I'm not into getting by, I'm trying to excel...
I'm one of those "new" noobs bro. There's so much more to it....

edit-But in all, I agree with you bro that you can grow a perfectly good plant in FFOF alone!
I haven't done it myself as I haven't tried, but a few guy here including yourself are obviously getting it done! So kudos

http://www.theweedblog.com/whats-the-best-soil-for-growing-marijuana/

Sincerely420 said:

The more you learn about soil, the more you'll realize that there's more too it man.
You just gotta look a little deeper..And believe me, I'm ALWAYS lookin' for ways to improve anything that I can.

This magical super soil that your talking about, I think it exists. If you couldn't make better soils, FFOF would cost the same an Miracle grow and other cheaper soils, which are amended with few ingredients.
FFOF costs more per bag bcuz there' more in it per bag brother. That's fact, just your the labels.
And it's not the growers need to creat a super soil to be successful, growing in one just makes the process easier.
Like no problems at all easy.

For example, if you add more earthworm castings to your FFOF, you unleash the power of Nitrogen in your soil by adding more Nitrogen fixing baceria.
Adding more organic matter to the soil mean the potential for more life in the soil, which means the potential for more available nutrients..

Sure you can get by just fine with FFOF. That's true.
I'm not into getting by, I'm trying to excel...
I'm one of those "new" noobs bro. There's so much more to it....

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I hear you loud and clear....do you use fem seeds or regular seeds? I use reg seed to start and select my moms then clone from there but I have planted just regular seeds and sexed and grown them out...here is what I am thinking....I start them in happy frog like I stated before....I want to increase the N just slightly in my happy frog....just elevate it slightly....I want to increase my female ratios from seed by using a 16hr light/8hr dark, lowering the temp in my room slightly, increasing N just slightly in the soil i start them in and raising the humidity a tad.....I dont want to elevate the n to much.....using worm castings...what do you think would be a reasonable amount to mix into my HF just to increase N slightly.

I'm using fem. seeds atm bro. Everything I've got right now is ordered from Attitude except for the pic that I posted above of the bag seed.
I don't really have the luxury of owning the place and having ample space, so I make due in the closet. But with that said, I go with fem. just to save the time and space.

But why do you say that you can increase your odds of females by running the lights 16/8? I wasn't aware of that bro.
And happy frog is coir based rather than soil based, so it's a different beast than the FFOF.
I went with FFOF because it was soil. IDK that it's fact, but I've read that the pH in coir is less stable than that of a soil base.
But you can use several things to add more Nitrogen bro! CHECK THIS THREAD OUT HAHA! Everything you're asking is here 3 times!
Have a quick look and get back to me hahah! I promise your answers are here.
I stock pile shit that I find interesting and informative here, and revisit it all from time to time

But you can't elevate the N too much using worm castings. They're a very mild fert. You don't wanna over do it tho like with anything

Seedsman White Widow

#happyplants

Sincerely420 said:

I'm using fem. seeds atm bro. Everything I've got right now is ordered from Attitude except for the pic that I posted above of the bag seed.
I don't really have the luxury of owning the place and having ample space, so I make due in the closet. But with that said, I go with fem. just to save the time and space.

But why do you say that you can increase your odds of females by running the lights 16/8? I wasn't aware of that bro.
And happy frog is coir based rather than soil based, so it's a different beast than the FFOF.
I went with FFOF because it was soil. IDK that it's fact, but I've read that the pH in coir is less stable than that of a soil base.
But you can use several things to add more Nitrogen bro! CHECK THIS THREAD OUT HAHA! Everything you're asking is here 3 times!
Have a quick look and get back to me hahah! I promise your answers are here.
I stock pile shit that I find interesting and informative here, and revisit it all from time to time

But you can't elevate the N too much using worm castings. They're a very mild fert. You don't wanna over do it tho like with anything

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Well there are several reports out there that show these studies....its in several of the ...hmmm how could I put it....some of the reputable growers...for instance Jorge Cerevantes Mj horticulture and most recently Greg Green published Dutch Passions findings in his Mj breeders bible....I had been reading this for a while...I am going to try it out for myself...fortunatly I do have the space to grow out enough to see what the results turn out to be.....I guess thats looking like a future thread ha..!!

Those are nice pics....I never took pics of my grows but I produced colas the size of a regular size water bottle....huge...grade a smoke....

Of course....space is a non factor in my case....but those are beautiful girls...for sure!!

You kinda gotta pick thru it for the relevant info, but this is some good stuff for any soil nerd

http://swstout.articlealley.com/characteristics-of-good-quality-soil-1697929.html

Sincerely420 said:

You kinda gotta pick thru it for the relevant info, but this is some good stuff for any soil nerd

http://swstout.articlealley.com/characteristics-of-good-quality-soil-1697929.html

Click to expand...

I will look it up.....what are you using for lights?? HID...What

Bear Country said:

Those are nice pics....I never took pics of my grows but I produced colas the size of a regular size water bottle....huge...grade a smoke....

Of course....space is a non factor in my case....but those are beautiful girls...for sure!!

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One day I'll get there man(bottled sized colas haha)! Thanks tho! I can't believe it 3am lol. I my eyes are like glazed over I'm so zuited haha!
I just had to focus my eyes on the time to see it pfff
Take it easy bro, I'm out for the night

And good luck growing bro!