Optic Lighting Vero COBs updated

PSUAGRO. said:

How long did you measure the droop for? Hrs?

That's the problem, no one in this forum has run cree/blux top bin cobs with secondary lenses on for months or years.........that I'm aware of?

We already know what happens to the Chinese panels with them on== high failure rates, even melted smds/cobs.

I Guess guinea pigs are in order!....lol

Click to expand...

I took the pulsed measurements with the lenses off. Waited a few minutes then took pulsed measurements with lenses on. Then I let it run (several hours) with lenses off to make sure the lux and power meter readings had stabilized. Then I added the lenses and waited about 60 minutes to make sure the readings had stabilized. The lux meter was never moved for any of those readings. Those are the four data sets I used to determine the temp droop both with lenses off and lenses on 2% and 2.1% respectively.

Those temp droop results are consistent with the readings I got from Vero29 mounted on CPU cooler, no lenses, driven at 2.45A, fan running at 5V (.4W) Very impressive thermal performance from the Veros in both cases. Under the same condition, the Cree CXA3070 was ~4.5%. I have not tried the CXA3590 that would be very interesting.

SupraSPL said:

Then most likely the Vero top bins have been stripped out at some point.

The fact that Cree keys on minimum flux is very helpful and is made possible by the narrower bin range, so we are doing less guessing. If you want "typical" Cree figures just use the number between the minimum and maximum.
View attachment 3354626

If you have access to an integrating sphere why not compare the CXA3590 and Vero29 and see whats what There are so many question like, is the Vero2 3k warmer than the Cree 3K. What is the LER of Vero3K. Is Cree coming in at the "minimum" or somewhere between min and max.

Click to expand...

1) Unfortunately ,I did not had the chance yet ,to obtain a CXA3590 unit for testing ..
Still ,some tests where done with few of CXAs 3070 Z4s & ABs ...

2) Vero 29 vs CXA 3K ,have almost no CCT difference .They both remain within the 2800K- 3200 K range.

3) Vero 3K LER (range of 30 units tested ) = min: 320,7 lm/W max :323,1 lm/W .Average :321,58

4) 5 out of 5 CXA 3070 AB tested ,where found to be having higher than min. values .
1 of them ( AB bin ) was quite far from typ. . values .(towards max )
But that was only one exception out of five ABs .

Very valuable info tnnx SDS!!!

SupraSPL said:

Very valuable info tnnx SDS!!!

Click to expand...

And another weird thing ,I've noticed ...
Both CXA and Vero 29 ,won't show their max potentional ,when brand new !
Really weird ....
It seems that after couple of grows ,when they are rendered as "slightly used " ,
both of these COBs ,INCREASE their light output ....
Up till today ,I'm busting my head ,trying to give a rational explanation to that phenomenon ...

Cheers.

stardustsailor said:

And another weird thing ,I've noticed ...
Both CXA and Vero 29 ,won't show their max potentional ,when brand new !
Really weird ....
It seems that after couple of grows ,when they are rendered as "slightly used " ,
both of these COBs ,INCREASE their light output ....
Up till today ,I'm busting my head ,trying to give a rational explanation to that phenomenon ...

Cheers.

Click to expand...

It's pretty usual behavior of LEDs. Not that I can explain it
There is a few threads on CPF about LM and some of them also cover this phenomenon.

e:I remember that you mentioned you had ordered a sample of Seoul Semiconductor SDW87F1C. Did you ever receive it? And perhaps tested it?

stardustsailor said:

And another weird thing ,I've noticed ...
Both CXA and Vero 29 ,won't show their max potentional ,when brand new !
Really weird ....
It seems that after couple of grows ,when they are rendered as "slightly used " ,
both of these COBs ,INCREASE their light output ....
Up till today ,I'm busting my head ,trying to give a rational explanation to that phenomenon ...

Cheers.

Click to expand...

in my test, I noticed the same behavior....with CXA3070 series...
also keeping them always at low temperatures in air in closed lamp...
seems to be triggered an increase performance in lux about 10/15%, depending on the power output level....
more time they work and more evident is this phenomenon...
with professional photoradiometer and par meter, the real data are always more than theoretical...
more than cree spec and cree-tools at the reference condition...
parameters, I can guarantee, excellent...
I have no explanation...

The way I see it, it's like replacing old tires for a vehicle with new ones; you have to drive about a month or so before you break the tires in. Same thing goes for car speakers, women, lamp....



It's strange but I believe it's the way these COBs are manufactured, which differs from how they are used after created; all the components that make a COB are basically layered one by one (or perhaps multiples) until an egg is generated, followed by the egg being applied in a grow space where it gets hot and SOME of the components possibly MOVE around a little over time, finding a better position, therefore reducing tension and performing at higher levels.

Just a theory. Would like to hear what others think.

AquariusPanta said:

The way I see it, it's like replacing old tires for a vehicle with new ones; you have to drive about a month or so before you break the tires in. Same thing goes for car speakers, women, lamp....



It's strange but I believe it's the way these COBs are manufactured, which differs from how they are used after created; all the components that make a COB are basically layered one by one (or perhaps multiples) until an egg is generated, followed by the egg being applied in a grow space where it gets hot and SOME of the components possibly MOVE around a little over time, finding a better position, therefore reducing tension and performing at higher levels.

Just a theory. Would like to hear what others think.

Click to expand...

I suggest you stick with your theory.
My theory suggests the atoms are just getting comfy in their new home with roommates that are strange and unusual.

Aquarius you drive much or listen to music do you. Brand new tires and speakers are far better than month old ones. Shit after 2-3 months I have to get my tires rotated. Month old speakers are worn. Not as crisp.

hyroot said:

Aquarius you drive much or listen to music do you. Brand new tires and speakers are far better than month old ones. Shit after 2-3 months I have to get my tires rotated. Month old speakers are worn. Not as crisp.

Click to expand...

I agree with this concerning car speakers*, but reference/mixing speakers do benefit from a burn in period.

Most importantly, the suspension system of the driver, the magnet that physically moves to create sound waves and moves the speaker cone, is rigid and will settle after so many hours of use. After it has settled, the frequency response will change from where it was when the speaker was new. Mixers/engineers need to know this response will not change in order to trust what they hear and produce consistent mixes. Thus, running the speakers for 20-50 hours allows them to settle and will produce consistent sound going forward.

* Caution should be exercised when operating car speakers in changing temperatures. Ie, don't get in a cold car and crank the speakers- cold materials like plastics can crack and break if driven hard.

hyroot said:

Aquarius you drive much or listen to music do you. Brand new tires and speakers are far better than month old ones. Shit after 2-3 months I have to get my tires rotated. Month old speakers are worn. Not as crisp.

Click to expand...

It would appear we disagree on something. Woohoo!

Based on what experts say and what I've experienced, new tires drive better after they've been worn in after driving. Doesn't mean that it's always the case, but for me - yes.

It sounds like you either buy low-grade products (speakers, tires) or you're just extra rough on your gear. I don't disbelieve you, Hyroot.

Dloomis514 said:

I suggest you stick with your theory.
My theory suggests the atoms are just getting comfy in their new home with roommates that are strange and unusual.

Click to expand...

I didn't ask for your suggestion, merely your thoughts on the mentioned phenomena.

deadgro said:

I agree with this concerning car speakers*, but reference/mixing speakers do benefit from a burn in period.

Most importantly, the suspension system of the driver, the magnet that physically moves to create sound waves and moves the speaker cone, is rigid and will settle after so many hours of use. After it has settled, the frequency response will change from where it was when the speaker was new. Mixers/engineers need to know this response will not change in order to trust what they hear and produce consistent mixes. Thus, running the speakers for 20-50 hours allows them to settle and will produce consistent sound going forward.

* Caution should be exercised when operating car speakers in changing temperatures. Ie, don't get in a cold car and crank the speakers- cold materials like plastics can crack and break if driven hard.

Click to expand...

Nailed it.

Aquarius I use all high end. It only takes 100 miles to wear in tires. Or 2-4 miles at high speed. I drive more than that in one day. Speakers you definitely want them brand new. I'm also an audio engineer. Went to school for that. Also did skip barber racing school years ago.

hyroot said:

Aquarius I use all high end. It only takes 100 miles to wear in tires. I drive more than that in one day. Speakers you definitely want them brand new. I'm also an audio engineer. Went to school for that. Also did skip barber racing school years ago.

Click to expand...

I'm a Nascar driver and I work with Dre.

AquariusPanta said:

I'm a Nascar driver and I work with Dre.

Click to expand...

NASCAR isn't racing. That's just hicks crashing into each other. In any other racing if you did half of what they do in NASCAR you would be disqualified. Auto racing is a sport of grace.

hyroot said:

Aquarius I use all high end. It only takes 100 miles to wear in tires. Or 2-4 miles at high speed. I drive more than that in one day. Speakers you definitely want them brand new. I'm also an audio engineer. Went to school for that. Also did skip barber racing school years ago.

Click to expand...

I encourage you to contact high end monitor mfgs (barefoot, genelec, focal, etc) and find ONE that doesn't recommend burning in. In fact, I've looked at most of their manuals and they ALL recommend it. Why would they lie? They know engineers keep monitors for 20+ years, there's no reason to lie to customers.

This might not relate to LEDs, but at least admit when you're wrong.

deadgro said:

I encourage you to contact high end monitor mfgs (barefoot, genelec, focal, etc) and find ONE that doesn't recommend burning in. In fact, I've looked at most of their manuals and they ALL recommend it. Why would they lie? They know engineers keep monitors for 20+ years, there's no reason to lie to customers.

This might not relate to LEDs, but at least admit when you're wrong.

Click to expand...

monitors fail after 2 years even the genelec. At my school they had to replace the genelec monitors twice in 9 months. They were over genelec and went with jbl and m audio. I use krk. I had one monitor last 3 years. All others font last much at all. . We had an otari console and an SSL then the weak ass pro tools console that's just a control surface for 3k. The otari is half a mil. The SSL 120k. Business lie all the time. The very first monitors I ever had were m audio. They failed in the first week. I took them back and got krk's.

hyroot said:

monitors fail after 2 years even the genelec. At my school they had to replace the genelec monitors twice in 9 months. They were over genelec and went with jbl and m audio. I use krk. I had one monitor last 3 years. All others font last much at all. . We had an otari console and an SSL then the weak ass pro tools console that's just a control surface for 3k. The otari is half a mil. The SSL 120k. Business lie all the time. The very first monitors I ever had were m audio. They failed in the first week. I took them back and got krk's.

Click to expand...

You should stick to the toke n talk section. The grown ups here use science and logic to support their statements.

hyroot said:

monitors fail after 2 years even the genelec. At my school they had to replace the genelec monitors twice in 9 months. They were over genelec and went with jbl and m audio. I use krk. I had one monitor last 3 years. All others font last much at all. . We had an otari console and an SSL then the weak ass pro tools console that's just a control surface for 3k. The otari is half a mil. The SSL 120k. Business lie all the time. The very first monitors I ever had were m audio. They failed in the first week. I took them back and got krk's.

Click to expand...

Monitors, as in computer speakers yes or?

Similar to car or home audio too but not designed for the same purposes?

I have Mission bookshelf speakers, which I've dragged all across America over the past 4+ years. They were also used when I nabbed em'. They sound decent to me. I also have been running the same Alpine speakers in my vehicle for over 4+ years and they sound just as good as they did after the first month of using em'.

Then again, I'm no certified sound engineer - just a sound enthusiast. What sounds good to me may not sound all to great for the guy standing next to me.

Maybe you could explain what you mean by "fail"? I'm under the initial impression that you mean the actual speaker stops working.

deadgro said:

You should stick to the toke n talk section. The grown ups here use science and logic to support their statements.

Click to expand...

I use first hand experience. I don't just repeat what some people tell me . Like some people ^^^. I've been a certified engineer since 2007. I've been in the industry since 2003. How about you? Just a wack studio in your bedroom.

This is the studio where I learned everything. Its an otari console. They stopped making them because they cost $500,000 and require $45,000 in maintenance every year. An ssl console cost 1/5 of the price and has built in compressors. You don't need a rack compressor with those. You see the 2 m audio monitors and the last genolec monitors ever used there. The right one failed first then the m audios were brought in.,



The school was called soundmaster. After Brian Ingelsby passed. Pinnacle college bought the school. If you are an engineer then you will know who Brian Ingelsby is.

This is me on the same console



I no longer work in music. There's no money in it anymore. I do post production for films from time to time. Sometimes I'm the guy setting up foley mics and boom mics. Other times doing mixes. Sometimes both. Last big film I was on was the Candelabra. Worked on small films since.