On Tonka-Toy Cars ...

ViRedd

New Member
The Tax-Free Lunch


[SIZE=-1]By Charles Krauthammer
Friday, June 29, 2007; A21
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The senator was vexed. The U.S. auto companies were resisting attempts by her and other Senate well-meaners to impose a radical rise in fuel efficiency by 2017. Why can't they be more like the Chinese, she complained. Or, to quote Sen. Dianne Feinstein precisely: "What the China situation, or the other countries' situation, shows is that these automakers, in all of these countries, build the automobile that the requirements for mileage state. And they don't fight it, they just do it."

Yes. That is how things work in Communist Party dictatorships. It is odd to hold up China as a model of corporate-government relations. It is also poor salesmanship. Just a week after Feinstein made that statement, the Brilliance BS6 sedan -- "a car with which [China] wanted to conquer Europe's automobile market" -- failed a German crash test so miserably that it may be banned from Europe, reported the European news agency AFX News. "It was the second time in less than two years that a Chinese-made car has failed the test, following the spectacular failure of the Landwind sport-utility vehicle made by Jiangling Motors 18 months ago."

You get what you pay for. When you build lighter cars with more fuel efficiency, you know that ultimately -- even with the best (let alone Chinese) technology -- safety is compromised. That happened three decades ago when U.S. mileage efficiency rose dramatically in response to the oil shocks of the '70s. It will probably happen again.

Now we may, as a society, decide that the trade-off is worth it. We may reason that fuel inefficiency leads to dependency on foreign oil which in turn leads us to lives lost in other ways -- such as wars to defend our interests in the oil-rich Middle East and elsewhere. But what we cannot deny is that there are trade-offs. What is fundamentally wrong with the energy bill the Senate passed last week and with the debate leading up to it is the chronic, almost pathological, refusal to recognize that there are such trade-offs.

Look at the major provisions of the bill. First, a mandated 40 percent increase in fuel-efficiency standards for automobile companies. What's wrong with that? Apart from the safety issue, there is the issue of cost. Car prices will rise. That could in turn drive one or all of the Big Three U.S. auto companies, all reeling financially, into insolvency.

That might be a worthy trade-off. This country desperately needs better gas mileage. But it does not come free. The most efficient and equitable way to both increase mileage and reduce gasoline use (increased mileage alone can induce people, perversely, to drive more) is with a new gasoline tax, refunded by means of reduced payroll taxes to make it revenue neutral. But there is absolutely no congressional or administration support for that, because it is too honest and open an acknowledgment that there is no free lunch. The reason Congress loves corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) standards is precisely that they hide the cost -- in the sticker price of a new car.

Whatever blame there is for the unfairness of life -- that energy efficiency is not free -- goes to the auto company rather than the mandating body, namely Congress.

That's the great attraction of ethanol, too. Another free lunch. The Senate bill mandates a quintupling of ethanol use by 2022. That might be a good idea, but it also has costs. With huge tracts of land now being turned over to grow corn for fuel, the price of corn already is rising, as is the price of other foods whose cropland has been taken over. The beauty of ethanol? It hides the price of purported energy efficiency in the most unlikely of places -- your cornflakes.

Mercifully, the Senate failed to pass a third proposed mandate from on high, a decree that power companies produce 15 percent of electricity from alternative sources by 2020. Because solar is expensive, wind is inconsistent in places such as the South, and geothermal is not exactly bubbling up in most states of the union, this mandate would have meant higher electricity prices.

I have no objection to paying more to reduce our dependency on foreign energy. But it is hard to conceive of a more politically dishonest and economically inefficient way to do it than with mandates that make private industry do Congress's dirty work, hide the true cost of energy efficiency and perpetuate the fantasy of the tax-free lunch.
 

medicineman

New Member
so what are you trying to say, It's all fucked up and it's the governments fault? Go figure. If you had it your way, there would be the rich with their Hummers and huge RVs and the rest of us would be walking. The lack of vehicles on the road would make your commute very pleasant, and since there was no huge demand for fuel in the free market, gas would be about 50 cents a gallon. Keep dreaming. There are upwards of 8 billion humans on a planet that can only support 2 billion long term. What that means for your limited intellect is: we are going to run out of all natural resources, oil, fresh water, growable soil etc. within the next hundred years barring a natural selection episode, (nuclear war) that thins out the herd, or divine intervention. Either one won't directly affect you or I, unless it happens shortly, but humanity is in for a rough ride in the near future. I'm afraid we (you and I) have seen the best of times. we gobbled up resources like there was no tomorrow, and guess what, we we're right. for a lot of folks, there will be no tomorrow.
 

ViRedd

New Member
so what are you trying to say, It's all fucked up and it's the governments fault? Go figure. If you had it your way, there would be the rich with their Hummers and huge RVs and the rest of us would be walking. The lack of vehicles on the road would make your commute very pleasant, and since there was no huge demand for fuel in the free market, gas would be about 50 cents a gallon. Keep dreaming. There are upwards of 8 billion humans on a planet that can only support 2 billion long term. What that means for your limited intellect is: we are going to run out of all natural resources, oil, fresh water, growable soil etc. within the next hundred years barring a natural selection episode, (nuclear war) that thins out the herd, or divine intervention. Either one won't directly affect you or I, unless it happens shortly, but humanity is in for a rough ride in the near future. I'm afraid we (you and I) have seen the best of times. we gobbled up resources like there was no tomorrow, and guess what, we we're right. for a lot of folks, there will be no tomorrow.
Did you read the article, Med?

Vi
 

4theist20

Well-Known Member
I don't see how a fuel efficent car has to be less safe than a gas guzzler. I also don't see much meat in this article. Smaller cars are becoming more popular. Especially densely populated areas. If American auto companies want to remain successful in the world market place they will have to learn this. I think they already have learned it, just check out their sales.
 

7xstall

Well-Known Member
i bet the trial lawyer lobby is foaming at the mouth trying to force new regulations on the auto industry. they get to sue the auto companies when mangled, disfigured, and otherwise handicapped citizens get churned out on a daily basis from little more than fender benders on our highways...

then the auto companies get to turn to the gov for more subsidies...then the next generation gets to complain about how the corporations run our country while the government dangles shinny "solutions" to that set of problems too and this exact discussion is once again repeated by people that don't even exist yet.

when does it end??? yes med, it's when we stop letting the government perpetuate it.




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medicineman

New Member
i bet the trial lawyer lobby is foaming at the mouth trying to force new regulations on the auto industry. they get to sue the auto companies when mangled, disfigured, and otherwise handicapped citizens get churned out on a daily basis from little more than fender benders on our highways...

then the auto companies get to turn to the gov for more subsidies...then the next generation gets to complain about how the corporations run our country while the government dangles shinny "solutions" to that set of problems too and this exact discussion is once again repeated by people that don't even exist yet.

when does it end??? yes med, it's when we stop letting the government perpetuate it.

Since you singled me out on this post (I don't know why, could it be your blind hatred of my viewpoints) Let me try and answer this dipthological post. Without regulations, corporations would and do run ripshod over the citizens, (enron, Global crossing, etc) come to mind. It's not like they are telling the Auto Mfgrs. to stop making cars, they are telling them to be smart and make the cars the people want, IE fuel efficient ones. Especially since your Buddy Dubya has sent the price of gas to the moon, 1.20 to 3.00+ a gallon. The market place will solve this anyway as Toyota and most of the other Japanese Mfgrs., including Korean cars, are making fuel efficient cars. You're just afraid you might get sued for driving that land yaght when you run over some poor unsuspecting soul in a smaller vehicle and cripple and maim them. I drive a full sized pickup and pay the price at the pump. Needless to say, being retired I don't do much driving, If I had a long commute, I'd seriously consider a fuel efficient auto. My fuel bill @ 3.00 a gallon averages out to about $60.00 a mo. I can afford that so I won't be trading in my almost new truck anytime soon. For those that can't do the math, thats about 20 gallons a month, way less than most people spend and keeping my carbon signature to a minimum. Now go crawl back under your rock.


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medicineman

New Member
that's why i singled you out.

i drive one of two jap v6s, no gas guzzlers for me. BTW, where is your support for the American worker?

Did you notice the ?? Since when has the government put any restrictions on industry, Been a long while, since the 70s I believe. Since the repukes have taken over (And Clintons dynasty) the corporations have been left to their own evil ways, less restrictions and more free reign, and look at the mess we're in now Olly. Maybe had the government held the Auto mfgrs to a higher fuel economy standard, we wouldn't be in the situation we're in now, and the US auto makers would not be going broke. Corporations without regulations destroy the environment, workers security, and yes, even themselves as the corporations desire for more and more profit destroys the original premis to make a good product for less money. The profit motive becomes the driving force, in fact the only force being recognized by the corporations. Squeeze a penny here, squeeze a penny there, ship jobs to 3rd world countries, lay off all union employees, outsource, yeah these all make for a bigger bottom lines but at what cost, destruction of thousands of lives, poorer workmanship, Higher salaries for CEOs while laying off thousands. It is a ruthless way to run a business and sooner or later they will collapse



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