Obama kills the NASA Constellation program...so much for space

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13727-nasa-must-look-beyond-the-moon.html


In February 2008, a group of former NASA officials and ex-astronauts urged the agency to downgrade its plans for the Moon and focus more on Mars. Now a National Research Council (NRC) committee, chosen by the US National Academy of Sciences to review NASA's efforts, has reached similar conclusions.
Now this article actually is from 2008.

The subject is a report of a panel of experts selected by the National Research Council.

But nowhere does it say Moon missions should be eliminated, just that President Bush's plan for a manned lunar base as a 'stepping stone' should be downgraded.

I'm still looking for something to substantiate your original statement.
NASA decided they would focus on going to Mars

I saw it a few months ago when they made the decision. They couldn't do both they said. It was one or the other.

And they decided it was better idea to go to Mars for various reasons.
And without the Constellation Program, NASA can't go anywhere on its own.
 

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13330-nasa-urged-to-focus-on-sending-people-to-mars.html



NASA should focus its efforts on mounting a human mission to Mars, and downgrade its plans for a human presence on the Moon, says a distinguished group of space experts, including former NASA officials and ex-astronauts.
Okay now this is essentially just a bunch of guys who got together at Stanford for the purpose of criticizing Bush's space plans. Perfectly timed for the 2008 Primaries.

They stated NASA should focus more on Mars and international cooperation by abandoning NASA's 'critical path' doctrine. How nice! They did say NASA should go to an asteroid. But they did not say it should be a replacement for Moon missions.

In fact, the article goes on to state that NASA chief Mike Griffith testified before a Congressional hearing that the asteroid idea was "foolish, frankly."
The Moon is a more appropriate first destination beyond low-Earth orbit because it takes just three days to reach, Griffin said. NASA could develop its spaceflight abilities relatively easily there before embarking on more ambitious missions, he said. In contrast, it would take months to make a roundtrip journey to a near-Earth asteroid.
Griffith is a proponent of the Moon to Mars 'stepping stone' theory.

Still waiting to see anything official from NASA, or anybody else for that matter, saying NASA could not do both Moon Missions and Mars missions.
 

Vindicated

Well-Known Member
I think funding another moon lading is a waste of money. There is nothing about the moon that holds the key to mars. You go to the moon, because the moon is still interesting, not because it's a stepping stone to mars.

There are plans for going to mars. One is called Mars Direct, the other called Mars for Less. A few countries, notably Australia have have their own plans, but all of them are basically the Mars Direct plan with different rockets. In a nut shell, they say every 18 months Mars's orbit gets reasonably close to Earth. We could send a "Earth Return Vehicle" six months in advanced. Then send a crew of 6-8 explorers who will live on Mars for 18 month, then return back when the planet is at it's closet orbit. This plan is estimated to cost 55 billion dollars.

The "Mars for Less" is highly controversial. It proposes we send an explorer to live on Mars indefinitely by sending a team of explorers on a 500 year mission. We send them with a return rocket that's lacking in fuel. The idea is that while we are terraforming Mars, we can use the natural gases to create rocket fuel there. Its not clear how much we'll actually save, but just the fact that we are sending explorers to Mars indifferently is enough to kill this idea. I remember listing to this plan on NPR radio, and the radio host asked the question... is it ethical to send a team of willing scientist to mars with no plans of a safe return?" People made arguments for and against, but it was a really heated discussion. What if they get sick, what if they change their mind, what if things turn violent or a disaster happens, etc.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
Untrue...totally untrue. What the moon base can do is give us a place to launch at zero gravity..... it makes a huge difference on getting to Mars.

The moon program paid off in spades. Better than anything Obama could possibly do with the $$$. So far, Obama has only shown he knows how to waste $$$$ and he's on a tear to break all records.... and our future.
 

bigbuddc

Well-Known Member
Fuck the space program. What the fuck has it EVER accomplished, we went to moon FOR WHAT just so we can say we've been there fuck that. Its much better things that the money can be used for like SCHOOLS, HEALTH CARE, AND ALTERATIVE ENERGY. And lastly if REPUBLICAN ass holes would stop pissing the world away chasing money and being greedy we wouldn't need to leave earth in the first place. FUCK SPACE!!!!
 

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
Fuck the space program. What the fuck has it EVER accomplished, we went to moon FOR WHAT just so we can say we've been there fuck that. Its much better things that the money can be used for like SCHOOLS, HEALTH CARE, AND ALTERATIVE ENERGY. And lastly if REPUBLICAN ass holes would stop pissing the world away chasing money and being greedy we wouldn't need to leave earth in the first place. FUCK SPACE!!!!
That's an intelligent retort which addresses previous points in a rational manner. :roll:

Not really. Merely one more mindless Proggie rant.

Schools - Public education is a function of the individual states.
Health Care - Function of the individual states.
Alternative Energy - Free market capitalism could find a way, but Proggies wouldn't approve because of the evil profit motive. If the states wish to subsidize sustainable energy, that is their prerogative. I have already explained how green energy could be encouraged by the federal government. And, arguably, it would be Constitutional to boot.
 
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PadawanBater

Guest
Fuck the space program. What the fuck has it EVER accomplished, we went to moon FOR WHAT just so we can say we've been there fuck that. Its much better things that the money can be used for like SCHOOLS, HEALTH CARE, AND ALTERATIVE ENERGY. And lastly if REPUBLICAN ass holes would stop pissing the world away chasing money and being greedy we wouldn't need to leave earth in the first place. FUCK SPACE!!!!
Fuck this is so stupid.

Can't you look farther than 10 feet in front of your face to see the enormous benefits the space program has provided us with?

It's arguably the leading reason America became the technologically competent nation we are today.

Pick up a fuckin' book. Jesus Christ.
:wall:
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Fuck this is so stupid.

Can't you look farther than 10 feet in front of your face to see the enormous benefits the space program has provided us with?

It's arguably the leading reason America became the technologically competent nation we are today.

Pick up a fuckin' book. Jesus Christ. :wall:

Paddy...is Space exploration a power delegated to the Federal Government by the Constitution? If it isn't how should the NASA program be paid for?
 

gloomysmokes707

Active Member
well now a days technology is so advanced in in 3rd world countries that telephone and internet communication is by the far the fastest way of spreading news or information on a global scale not books my friend... this isnt 1952
 

gloomysmokes707

Active Member
just because you dont read books doesnt mean you dont read. Alot of school now a days are going towards the internet because theres zero paper waste, and the information is just as useful and kids in this generation are actually able to do it at a faster pace. Moving along faster than ever before, i dont like to say dont read a good book because i have ready many in my short life. Im just saying the internet is very good for fact finding and educational purposes if thats what you choose to use it for. I went to high school for 3 years completely online through a charter school. It worked great for me and i didnt have the time constraints that i had before. I wasnt exposed to the every day anxiety that i lived with for many years going to public schools. I do understand that to function in society people need to know how to function in public. Which is why most kids going to home school or charter school are usually more prone to either get into a hobby or tend to be more family oriented. Stay in school for sure. you spelled it skool
 
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PadawanBater

Guest
Paddy...is Space exploration a power delegated to the Federal Government by the Constitution? If it isn't how should the NASA program be paid for?
Nope, I don't believe it is, but I believe if the founders ever foresaw such exploration, they'd of definitely delegated the power to the Federal Government.

Similar to Columbus' expedition, or any of the early expeditions. Gov. always plays a role. I don't see it as a viable or realistic option for the private sector to fund space exploration, especially if we want to get anywhere (innovation wise) in any reasonable amount of time.

So, I see this as a necessary tax imposed on the people. It benefits us all in countless different ways that most of us don't even recognize.

It couldn't be any worse than the bottomless pits known as Iraq and Afghanistan, imo.
 

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
Paddy...is Space exploration a power delegated to the Federal Government by the Constitution? If it isn't how should the NASA program be paid for?
Nope, I don't believe it is, but I believe if the founders ever foresaw such exploration, they'd of definitely delegated the power to the Federal Government.

Similar to Columbus' expedition, or any of the early expeditions. Gov. always plays a role. I don't see it as a viable or realistic option for the private sector to fund space exploration, especially if we want to get anywhere (innovation wise) in any reasonable amount of time.

So, I see this as a necessary tax imposed on the people. It benefits us all in countless different ways that most of us don't even recognize.

It couldn't be any worse than the bottomless pits known as Iraq and Afghanistan, imo.
NACA, the predecessor to NASA, began under the auspices of the U.S. Navy, which is Constitutional.

At the time the NACA was eliminated and its assets transferred into the newly created NASA, the Cold War was at a fever pitch. A year earlier in 1957, the Soviets launched Sputnik. And they subsequently reached many, if not most, of the early milestones in space exploration. And had the U.S. continued Apollo to its logical conclusion, any Moon base would most surely be a military installation at some level.

NASA is a quasi-military civilian agency. But even with civilian status, it is an agency dedicated to National Security because outer space can become weaponized (if it has not already). A civilian space agency is not as threatening to other nations as a military space program would be. And because of it's civilian status, not all of its focus need be on discoveries and technologies specific to military applications.

The Constitution is a timeless document. The framers did not need to foresee space travel any more than they had to understand a Boeing 747 as a means of transportation.

I believe an argument could be made that NASA is Constitutional. And if I am wrong, it should be folded into the Pentagon's space program. Most people don't realize the U.S. has two.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
So let's put RobRoy down for being against space exploration as well.

Rob, you are the lucky winner today and the prize is a bucket of sand. You know what to do with it, I'm sure.... :wink:
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
So let's put RobRoy down for being against space exploration as well.

Rob, you are the lucky winner today and the prize is a bucket of sand. You know what to do with it, I'm sure.... :wink:

Sand? Certainly I know what to do with it, I will attempt to help you pull your head out of it, it would be impolite to do otherwise... ;-)

Perhaps you should review my posts.
I never said I was against Space exploration. I am against the use of force to extort money from people to fund it. If people want it, they should be free to pool their resources and achieve it. If people don't want it, they should be free not to be made to participate. Anything less is to deny freedom.

I'm going out on a limb here that you will break with your cognitive dissonance but... if you believe in freedom, you don't force yourself on other people, their property or the fruit of their labor.
Even if your name is "government"

You rail on that you are against forced healthcare. Good for you, so am I. Yet you like space exploration so the government using force to fund that is now okay? You are being hypocritical and inconsistent.
 
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