Obama FOOLED you all! pawned!

Don't you think reformism offer's a bit a a band-aid solution, if that? I find it to be historically ineffective, after all it's about altering current structures that are inherently designed to oppress. I'm not opposed to the concept of reform altogether but to the idea that all the necessary change comes about through reform.

buttery420 said:

Don't you think reformism offer's a bit a a band-aid solution, if that?

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When I speak of reform I refer to re-legalization, which would have an enormous impact.

Criminal cartels would be forced to move into other criminal enterprises.

Law enforcement, the courts, and prisons could focus on actual criminals.

Regulated and taxed cannabis would be free of illegal pesticides and Mexican wee wee.

Cannabis users would no longer be discriminated against and marginalized in the workplace.

Those of us who choose to grow our own for personal use could do so without fear of having our doors kicked in by jackbooted thugs with guns and badges.

Industrial hemp would lose the stigma associated with illicit drugs. Paper, textiles, food, building materials, fuel; all from one plant. The hemp industry could create jobs. Small scale farming would be energized.

That's a mighty big band-aide.

buttery420 said:

I find it to be historically ineffective, after all it's about altering current structures that are inherently designed to oppress.

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If it is historical, as you say, perhaps you could provide an example or two?

buttery420 said:

I'm not opposed to the concept of reform altogether but to the idea that all the necessary change comes about through reform.

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What is the alternative?

The status quo is unacceptable.

Allowing medical use only is fine for sick people, but leaves the rest of us out in the cold.

Decriminalization would result in law enforcement and the criminals retaining considerable power. The stigma connected to cannabis use would remain.

if your stupid enough to vote for someone with a name like that....this is the united states of america

ford442 said:

http://rawstory.com/2010/02/obama-admins-promise-dea-continues-raids-medical-marijuana-growers/

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Federal laws were not changed. The memo the administration released late last year related to medicinal cannabis was just that. This is not reform.

The man profiled in the article drew attention to himself by going on television bragging about about the size of his operation and the profits he was earning. In addition, he was growing one block away from an elementary school.

He essentially dared the DEA to raid him and they accommodated him.

Had the Federal laws actually changed, the situation would be completely different.

beardo said:

if your stupid enough to vote for someone with a name like that....this is the united states of america

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probably the stupidest thing I've heard in weeks. "this is the united states of america" as you say so obviously the name shouldn't matter.

But you're probably from the south or some other place where you're brainwashed to think that they're all the "enemies."

one thing is for certain my fellow potheads...... is that another black man will never be presidant after this negro!!!!! not that the white version of him is much better!!!!! i hope he doesnt tye to bring his punk ass back to chicago!!!! cuzz we dont want that motherfucker here. at this time with the economy has fucked has it is i dont even think those project niggas {who use to grip his balls nasty} want his flakey ass back.

FOR ANY ONE OF YOU TO BELIEVE IN A POLITICIAN MAKING RADICAL CHANGES NO MATTER WHAT COLOR OR DECENT IT AINT HAPPENING gov is the largest gang around if you didn t notice already and we all live in there territory

Anybody that enjoys growing their own herb, whether legally under medical laws or not, needs ta think before joining NORML. Ive supported them for years but have recently withdrew due to their recent backing of a new MJ bill that I cant remember the name of right now! HA! But this bill basically would make all medical marijuana only available thru a dispensary and would make it illeagal to grow your own at home. This bill is being backed by the owner of Oaksterdam Univ. and other big cannabusiness owners in an effort to maximize their already massive profits. If none of us could grow our own medicine and were forced to purchase it from dispenseries at outrageous prices, not only would we all probably go broke but the dispensery owners profits would increase by incredible amounts! Most of these Cannabusiness owners are NORML members which is why NORML, MPP and DPA back this bill.
Jack Herer is currently openly opossing this bill and NORML for backing it, reading some info on this website http://www.newagecitizen.com/MERP.htm is where I found out about this bullshit. Jack and several other MJ activists including Ed Rosenthal and Dennis Peron (Dennis Peron was actually fired from Oaksterdam Univ. for opposing this bill!) are backing The MERP Model, which is basically a draft that MJ Activists can model their potential bills after. The MERP Model would be much more benificial to the rest of us instead of screwing us and making the rich richer. Here's a lil somethin I found after googling MERP Model
Who is this "cannabusiness community"?

Johnnyorganic said:

When I speak of reform I refer to re-legalization, which would have an enormous impact.

Criminal cartels would be forced to move into other criminal enterprises.

Law enforcement, the courts, and prisons could focus on actual criminals.

Regulated and taxed cannabis would be free of illegal pesticides and Mexican wee wee.

Cannabis users would no longer be discriminated against and marginalized in the workplace.

Those of us who choose to grow our own for personal use could do so without fear of having our doors kicked in by jackbooted thugs with guns and badges.

Industrial hemp would lose the stigma associated with illicit drugs. Paper, textiles, food, building materials, fuel; all from one plant. The hemp industry could create jobs. Small scale farming would be energized.

That's a mighty big band-aide.

If it is historical, as you say, perhaps you could provide an example or two?

What is the alternative?

The status quo is unacceptable.

Allowing medical use only is fine for sick people, but leaves the rest of us out in the cold.

Decriminalization would result in law enforcement and the criminals retaining considerable power. The stigma connected to cannabis use would remain.

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I honestly think that we would all regret the full legalization of marijuana. I mean can you guys even imagine what these blood sucking corporations would do to our herb! Just thinnking about it makes me sick. There would probably be all kinds of regulations on growing it, if we were even allowed to grow at all! Remember were not allowed to make our own whiskey... why would herb be any defferent? They would tax the hell out of it too which would basically give govt the authority to jack up the prices as often as they want. We made the mistake of giving the Govt authority ta do this with tobacco and now were payin nearly 10 bucks a pack!
I personally would much rather see decriminalization. That way WE can retain control of the industry, not the corporations. Right now marijuana gives the little guy an oppurtunity to make some extra cash to support his family when times get tough. And even with herb being 100% illegal its a relatively easy going hustle. I mean compared to selling hard drugs herb is a cake walk! The clientel is laid back and not going thru withdrawl. You dont have ta worry about them over dosing on your product or their kids going hungry because of their herb addiction! Anybody thats sold hard drugs will tell ya that sellin herb is just a totally different game. The only good that will come from legalization and taxation is that you wont have ta worry about getting arrested and the prison population will decrease. But those two things can also be accomplished thru decrim as well, IF its done right!
I would just hate to see the same big wigs that have shit on us for years profit from our hard work and suffering. Because there is no doubt about it that as soon as legalization happens 99% of us are gonna be nothin but customers.
Does anybody feel me on this one???

buttery420 said:

Yep the only way we'll ever get true freedom is through revolution. Fuck the republicans, fuck the democrats and any other political party.

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agreed. i say we bear arms and storm the capitol!!

newb985 said:

probably the stupidest thing I've heard in weeks. "this is the united states of america" as you say so obviously the name shouldn't matter.

But you're probably from the south or some other place where you're brainwashed to think that they're all the "enemies."

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some things do matter and this countrys founding fathers were white christen outspoken men of action. our generation is a bunch of pussys who are afraid to stand up for anything afraid to assume that someone named Ackmed who wares a sheet or turban is probably not a friend...Trust and belive they wont have the same consideration and compassion for you..my friends and neighbors grew up in the U.S. and have american names and went to american schools....i love my friends family and neighbors....and want what is best for us and our grandchildren...P.S. not from south im from verry LIB state and the stuff were soposed to accept is discusting...homeless grandmothers...transvestite prostitutes...i guess thats freedom just dont J Walk

some things do matter and this countrys founding fathers were white christen outspoken men of action. our generation is a bunch of pussys who are afraid to stand up for anything afraid to assume that someone named Ackmed who wares a sheet or turban is probably not a friend...Trust and belive they wont have the same consideration and compassion for you..my friends and neighbors grew up in the U.S. and have american names and went to american schools....i love my friends family and neighbors....and want what is best for us and our grandchildren...P.S. not from south im from verry LIB state and the stuff were soposed to accept is discusting...homeless grandmothers...transvestite prostitutes...i guess thats freedom just dont J Walk

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Johnny, law reform won't change this sort of attitude...racism, homophobia etc. for example we have laws against hate crime, but this still occurs on a frequent basis because as you should know making something illegal doesn't stop it from happening. When I speak of revolution I'm alluding to social revolution, in which these kinds of attitudes aren't socially acceptable. Bureaucratizing the beaucocracy won't help anyone.
Yes pot smokers are 'oppressed' in a sense and this is something that could be helped by de-criminalizing but many more people in oppressive situations cannot be helped by simple tweaks in the law.

buttery420 said:

Johnny, law reform won't change this sort of attitude...racism, homophobia etc. for example we have laws against hate crime, but this still occurs on a frequent basis because as you should know making something illegal doesn't stop it from happening. When I speak of revolution I'm alluding to social revolution, in which these kinds of attitudes aren't socially acceptable. Bureaucratizing the beaucocracy won't help anyone.
Yes pot smokers are 'oppressed' in a sense and this is something that could be helped by de-criminalizing but many more people in oppressive situations cannot be helped by simple tweaks in the law.

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you will win your social revolution is here and soon statements like mine will be considered a hate crime freedom of speetch is being killed by political correctness. i just want the right to not have others lifestyles forced on me or my family. dont worry you won't have to deal with hard working honest hetrosexual american men long we are an endangered species with no one intrested in protecting our rights

beardo said:

you will win your social revolution is here and soon statements like mine will be considered a hate crime freedom of speetch is being killed by political correctness. i just want the right to not have others lifestyles forced on me or my family. dont worry you won't have to deal with hard working honest hetrosexual american men long we are an endangered species with no one intrested in protecting our rights

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Did I mention anything about criminalizing the discriminatory social commentary you offered? I am simply asking that one day people look at the shit you write and laugh.
No one is forcing their lifestyle down your throat, on the contrary this is something you want to do by criticizing people based on culture and sexuality, whilst promoting the image of a "hard-working, honest, heterosexual American male". And please stop with the victim mentality, you have just described the one of the most privileged groups of people in society.

im pretty positive after watching the nostradomus effect that obama is the anti christ. . .
lol

I don't blamy you and didnt say you want to criminalize my points of view or right to say what i belive but some people do and are working on it. hate crime laws can be used in the wrong ways and for the wrong purposed. why is assaulting me less of a crime than assaulting a minority ?? seems discrimotory to me. I dont know where you all live but i have transvestite prostitutes who roam my neighborhood blowing guys in public and their allowed to hang around soliciting. i walked across the street and got a ticket for j walking and didnt pay now they want over 600$ and im wondering who the real criminals are

hate crime laws can be used in the wrong ways and for the wrong purposed.

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What do you mean for the wrong purpose?

why is assaulting me less of a crime than assaulting a minority ??

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Because the assault isn't motivated simply by blind prejudice. You are not likely to be attacked without provocation and certainly not for your appearance or sexuality.

I dont know where you all live but i have transvestite prostitutes who roam my neighborhood blowing guys in public and their allowed to hang around soliciting. i walked across the street and got a ticket for j walking and didnt pay now they want over 600$ and im wondering who the real criminals are

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Certainly not "transvestite prostitutes"...

Writing Senators letters like one poster said, yeah, it lets them know we're out there, but something more "IN YOUR FACE" is better, pro-active marches with civil disobedience.

Martin Luther King in 1963 with his march in Washington D.C. had roughly 250,000 people with him as he walked from the Washington Monument to the Lincoln Memorial. THAT -was a true display of power! THAT is something like we need. MLK was fighting against what were unjust laws against blacks. We have UNJUST LAWS AGAINST us who use Cannabis...be it legal or not.

A pulling together of people to go from city to city, in INSANELY MASSIVE NUMBERS- if people would just set aside their fear! A nationwide march going from major city-to-major city would rattle Washington D.C. , it would get media and internet coverage like you wouldn't believe.

MLK advocated civil disobedience , and this is what will further the movement, they cannot lock all of us up, some of us will have to make sacrifices , but they CANNOT get all of us. We need a movement so huge that we can put it through to the legislators that if you arrest one of us- 10 more will fall in line of the one arrested, and we will NEVER STOP, NOT EVER!!!

We have the people to rattle the shit out of the U.S. GOVT. , we have the numbers if people just get over their fear.

Mark Twain once said (In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him for then it costs nothing to be a patriot).

I think many just want to stay underground and are reasonably satisfied with the current MMJ movement and are afraid of losing what little steps we've already made... IT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH !!!

Don't settle for a few crumbs, demand the whole meal ! We can't wait till 2025 or 2030 when it'll probably be legal by then. We need to force their hand. Enough marches and civil disobedience could... could have legalization if not at least nationwide ,decriminalization by 2012-to-2013 if enough people got over their fear. I've been to 2 legalization rallies before. I don't know anything about the grass roots and starting up but I'm going to contact NORML and MPP to see how to get something going.

chief greenleaf said:

I honestly think that we would all regret the full legalization of marijuana. I mean can you guys even imagine what these blood sucking corporations would do to our herb! Just thinnking about it makes me sick.

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It alarms me to no end to see such a rash of anti-corporate mentality lately. After all, a corporation is nothing more than a collection of individuals coming together and pooling their capital for the purpose of providing a good or service. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and state that your fear is not actually of corporations per se, but Corporatism; which is an alliance between government and corporations for the purpose of manipulating the economy for mutual benefit. Corporatism is not free market capitalism, it is the economic component of Fascism.

chief greenleaf said:

There would probably be all kinds of regulations on growing it, if we were even allowed to grow at all! Remember were not allowed to make our own whiskey... why would herb be any defferent? They would tax the hell out of it too which would basically give govt the authority to jack up the prices as often as they want. We made the mistake of giving the Govt authority ta do this with tobacco and now were payin nearly 10 bucks a pack!

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Of course there would be regulations, but that is a good thing. And taxes are a fact of life in any civilized society. Regulation and taxation would give cannabis legitimacy and take away many objections from people who are largely ambivalent to cannabis. Removing the upward price pressure which accompanies Prohibition will offset any taxes which result from re-legalization. Although I agree with you on the sin taxes angle; that is another argument.

You are incorrect about whiskey. Currently people can produce their own beer, wine, and whiskey without interference from the government as long they do not sell it.

chief greenleaf said:

I personally would much rather see decriminalization. That way WE can retain control of the industry, not the corporations.

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Decriminalization will allow law enforcement and criminal cartels virtually the same power they have now. And government will not benefit from tax revenues derived from full re-legalization.

chief greenleaf said:

Right now marijuana gives the little guy an oppurtunity to make some extra cash to support his family when times get tough. And even with herb being 100% illegal its a relatively easy going hustle. I mean compared to selling hard drugs herb is a cake walk! The clientel is laid back and not going thru withdrawl. You dont have ta worry about them over dosing on your product or their kids going hungry because of their herb addiction! Anybody thats sold hard drugs will tell ya that sellin herb is just a totally different game.

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Right now the little guy gets shat on by the criminal cartels and law enforcement. There are little in the way of opportunities and no prospects for a street level drug dealer. It's not exactly something one puts on one's resume. Maybe it is just me, but I have never known a drug dealer who sold cannabis exclusively. Again, that is just me and I have not purchased cannabis in years.

chief greenleaf said:

The only good that will come from legalization and taxation is that you wont have ta worry about getting arrested and the prison population will decrease. But those two things can also be accomplished thru decrim as well, IF its done right!

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I have already explained in a previous post how the benefits of re-legalization far outweigh any benefits of decriminalization. It is an apples and oranges comparison.

chief greenleaf said:

I would just hate to see the same big wigs that have shit on us for years profit from our hard work and suffering. Because there is no doubt about it that as soon as legalization happens 99% of us are gonna be nothin but customers.
Does anybody feel me on this one???

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With re-legalization, people will be able to grow their own because it will be legal. Just like beer, wine, and liquor. Furthermore, large corporations do not monopolize the alcohol industry now. There are thousands upon thousands of wineries, microbreweries, and small distilleries. Tobacco is slightly different because it does not grow in all climates, but people do grow and cure their own tobacco. And there are smaller tobacco companies as well.