NO! On Prop 19

Dan Kone said:

It makes me wonder what their real motivations are for opposing prop 19. They obviously see this and choose to ignore it. Hard to have an honest discussion with people who refuse to take into account obvious truths.



Yep. It'll be prohibition as usual. I'm not saying prop 19 ends prohibition, but it does give us a great way to fight prohibition. Hard to fight multimillion dollar lobbies on the national level. But on the county level every voter has access to their board of supervisors. You don't need to be a CEO. They have open office hours where anyone can talk to them. Big lobbies usually don't play on that level.

A single person can go out and gather a couple hundred signatures of registered voters on a petition. A county supervisor will take that very seriously. You don't need a million dollars to effect local progress. Prop 19 allows cities and counties to end prohibition entirely in a way that an average person can have a serious effect. There is no disputing that this is a good thing.

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A lot of wishful thinking in that post.

You're guessing. Nothing more.

We see glaring inconsistencies between what supporters claim, and what is actually in the bill.

You've chosen to believe what you will. You're wrong, but it will be your vote.

If you expect to get rich selling pot, you will be sadly disappointed. You'll be regulated into eating a bullet in frustration.

veggiegardener said:

A lot of wishful thinking in that post.

You're guessing. Nothing more..

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How so?

We see glaring inconsistencies between what supporters claim, and what is actually in the bill.

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You've got people on your side opposing prop 19 on these forums by claiming that prop 19 makes possession a felony. That is an outright lie.

These "glaring inconsistencies" are largely you misinterpreting prop 19. The original medical cannabis lawyer, norml, Tom Ammiano, and pretty much every prominent legal mind in the cannabis community all think you are misinterpreting prop 19. It's just a few people like you and the prohibitionists opposing it.

Please, tell me, what do you know about interpreting legal language that J. David Nick and Tom Ammiano don't know. What law school did you attend? Why should people believe your interpretation of prop 19 over prominent pro-cannabis activist lawyers?

You've chosen to believe what you will. You're wrong, but it will be your vote.

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Take a look at the people on your side. Mostly narcotics officers, DA's, other anti-drug groups, and the alcohol lobby. You're playing for the wrong team here.

If you expect to get rich selling pot, you will be sadly disappointed. You'll be regulated into eating a bullet in frustration.

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It's not all about getting rich. It's about being able to support yourself and your family off of doing something you love. There is nothing sinister about that. Sorry if I refuse to be a 9-5er and sit in a cubicle all day. I've tried that already. That life isn't for me. I guess that makes me a bad person.

Dan Kone said:

How so?



You've got people on your side opposing prop 19 on these forums by claiming that prop 19 makes possession a felony. That is an outright lie.

These "glaring inconsistencies" are largely you misinterpreting prop 19. The original medical cannabis lawyer, norml, Tom Ammiano, and pretty much every prominent legal mind in the cannabis community all think you are misinterpreting prop 19. It's just a few people like you and the prohibitionists opposing it.

Please, tell me, what do you know about interpreting legal language that J. David Nick and Tom Ammiano don't know. What law school did you attend? Why should people believe your interpretation of prop 19 over prominent pro-cannabis activist lawyers?



Take a look at the people on your side. Mostly narcotics officers, DA's, other anti-drug groups, and the alcohol lobby. You're playing for the wrong team here.



It's not all about getting rich. It's about being able to support yourself and your family off of doing something you love. There is nothing sinister about that. Sorry if I refuse to be a 9-5er and sit in a cubicle all day. I've tried that already. That life isn't for me. I guess that makes me a bad person.

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Dream on.... LOL

veggiegardener said:

Dream on.... LOL

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What a well thought out and articulate response from the prohibitionist.... He is right ya know. You can count yourself among cops, prosecutors, anti-drug and church groups. Those are the ones you are standing in solidarity with. I think it is assinine for medical marijuana users to trash prop 19.... it is ironic beyond comprehension. And yes, I know I misspelled the word.... but it fits....

Am I the only one that finds it hilarious mr. veggie only posts in threads that bash prop 19 or have gone that way. If it contains facts he can't touch it like a vamp touching silver.

He also tries and claims his wife NEEDS more smoke than any 3 of us in a month, ha. Grow better smoke than.

i do have to admit, i am in awe of the level of conspiracy that has been described here
not only does prop 19 create new felonies, destroy MMJ, and aid in the big business take over of MJ
but law enforcement(the real big winner from prop 19) has cleverly come out against this new major source of funding
it's just diabolical, and i thought the Illuminati was the ultimate in paranoia

growone said:

i do have to admit, i am in awe of the level of conspiracy that has been described here
not only does prop 19 create new felonies, destroy MMJ, and aid in the big business take over of MJ
but law enforcement(the real big winner from prop 19) has cleverly come out against this new major source of funding
it's just diabolical, and i thought the Illuminati was the ultimate in paranoia

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Yea, the BS that people can come up with to change minds is amazing,. well not really. When you present someone with the truth all they can do is make up shit. Take my thread of facts for example. Still haven't seen the major anti 19 folks on this board post in that thread.

the gov't fucks up everything... this will be no different... everybody that thinks this is gonna be some kind of miracle is sadly mistaken... any thing the gov't touches they ruin... this will be no different and you know this...

nathenking said:

the gov't fucks up everything... this will be no different... everybody that thinks this is gonna be some kind of miracle is sadly mistaken... any thing the gov't touches they ruin... this will be no different and you know this...

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Did they fuck up prop 215 to the point where you wish you voted no on it? They govt decriminalized marijuana in California, did they fuck that up? State and local governments touch and fix roads, did they fuck that up? They zone and require new fire depts, schools, police stations. Do they fuck those up?

So far, it seems like all you've posted is slander. So where are the facts to back up your statement?

look at the budget bro... look at the recounts, look at welfare... look at how any prisons and prisoners we have... look at corporations buying and paying for the senate and the presidency... you should take that photo of bob down man... seriously... you think that shit is o.k.? you dont think this country is going down hill, that we owe china a trillion dollars, that we are in wars we should have never even been involved with??? and your talking about roads and schools... News flash, our school system in this country is shit as well... especially in cali... dont even act like shit is o.k. it seems that you only care about Mj... congratulations, everything else is fucked but as long as you can have a ounce it will be alright.... its complete BS... pseudo activist BS...

nathenking said:

look at the budget bro... look at the recounts, look at welfare... look at how any prisons and prisoners we have... look at corporations buying and paying for the senate and the presidency... you should take that photo of bob down man... seriously... you think that shit is o.k.? you dont think this country is going down hill, that we owe china a trillion dollars, that we are in wars we should have never even been involved with??? and your talking about roads and schools... News flash, our school system in this country is shit as well... especially in cali... dont even act like shit is o.k. it seems that you only care about Mj... congratulations, everything else is fucked but as long as you can have a ounce it will be alright.... its complete BS... pseudo activist BS...

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you don't think I don't know all of that? Do you think Bob would be ok with marijuana being only medical and decriminalized or do you think he'd want it to be legal? I'm sure he would support prop 19 if he was still around. We can't change all of those things over night. They have gotten that bad through time. And as time keeps ticking so will the problems marijuana being illegal creates. How many people do you think are in jail because of marijuana being illegal in California? Have those people been released yet because of prop 215? No they haven't, with Prop 19 there stands a change those I think it was 60,000 people a year get their records cleaned and their case thrown out. How many people do you think have died because of marijuana being illegal through drug busts? How many people locked up for marijuana do you think have been murdered in the prison system by a killer? Prop 19 no passing continues the war on marijuana and drugs in general considering that's where it started. I hope you know your history.

Seems like you don't care at all. You can throw out all those different problems, but what are YOU doing to help them? Are you protesting anything? Do you have a non profit organization? NO bill is perfect the first time around, it takes years of changes to get it to be somewhat decent. You can not expect and you will not ever get the perfect legalize marijuana bill the first time around. If anybody is a pseudo activist it's the people who have MMJ cards and are voting no on the 2nd.

So you think voting no is helping lessen drug related crime? Is it helping random drug raids and busts on people growing a couple plants? Just because you're in California and you're safe doesn't mean you shouldn't care. There are hundreds of millions of people in this Country. Millions of people every year are locked up for stupid marijuana charges. It has happened in the past with Prop 215 that California is almost always at the front of the line when it comes to changing laws. It happened with 215, it can happen with 19. You voting no is not helping one soul. You sir are the pseudo activist. You are the one ruining this Country even more so. Don't give me all that reflection bullshit, you need to take a good look in the mirror because you are no better than the people who say marijuana is dangerous. You are voting the same. No to Prop 19. I pity you. I pity you and everyone who votes no thinking they are doing something positive.

I am voting no. It's just going to be one huge cluster fuck of shit. Trust me, I am psychic. No....really, I am.









when I'm stoned

I am voting yes. It's just going to continue to be one huge cluster fuck of shit if it doesn't pass.

Check out Allen's quote in my sig.

potroast said:

I am voting yes. It's just going to continue to be one huge cluster fuck of shit if it doesn't pass.

Check out Allen's quote in my sig.

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agreed

people are so worried about the money they have failed to remember we wont get arrested / fined anymore, which to me is what its all about

Keenly2 said:

agreed

people are so worried about the money they have failed to remember we wont get arrested / fined anymore, which to me is what its all about

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Quit with the simple logic please. It will spoil the fun of watching the conspiracy theorists predicting doom for all!

conspiracy is a word that does not apply here, as it does not fit the definition of the word

the term you are looking for is something i would call "financial speculation fear mongering"

you know, the "if it passes, this and this and this might happen"

It's good to see more people who are going to vote yes. I was getting a bit worried about this forum. I don't understand why people hate this bill so bad. All they have to do is read it.

mr2shim said:

It's good to see more people who are going to vote yes. I was getting a bit worried about this forum. I don't understand why people hate this bill so bad. All they have to do is read it.

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i think sites like these have a slant that may differ sharply from the broad based electorate
i saw a comparison of the number of registered 215 patients and the number of registered california voters
registered 215 patients are not going to affect prop 19 materially, the numbers are too small
and not all patients are anti 19
the polls are confusing, most seem to show 19 having a lead, it looks close either way

Keenly2 said:

conspiracy is a word that does not apply here, as it does not fit the definition of the word

the term you are looking for is something i would call "financial speculation fear mongering"

you know, the "if it passes, this and this and this might happen"

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Thank you for the clarification Keenly. You figured out exactly what I was trying to say.