New style Samsung LM561C Board

[ChiefRunningPhist]

Those are not 561C or Lm301B.......The LEDs you have pictured cost about 1/4 the cost of lm301B ..... Or 1/3 the cost of lm561C. Where did you get thrse and what led did they claim to give you?

They didn't claim a brand. I've been hunting for some time trying to figure out what they were because I don't want to go through the process of building out a frame for diodes under 140lm/w. I'd really like to plot their efficacy or come across the data sheet so I can calculate a build.

I tested them (in parallel) on the board @ 6v+ each so I know they aren't LM301b or LM561c but was curious what the dissent would be given the threads attention to ESD visibility.

Data:
12S/3P, 30w (~kilowatt reading)

- .38A measured in series between negative driver lead and board.

- ~73v measured in parallel at driver leads before board.

- ~6v measured in parallel at diode terminals

Was hoping they were similar to these...

https://www.rollitup.org/p/14640059/



Thanks for the reply and any insight!

Seems like theres quite the demand for top bin, they can't all be, I'm sure your lights are superior to the Chinese ones. If these will get me through a grow I'll be happy, though not as happy as using one of your lights haha If I had the cheddar, I'd be buying prime cut, I've heard nothing but good reviews about HLG when it comes to quality.

EDIT: How could you tell they weren't lm301b or lm561c? What was distinguishing? What are the visual characteristics of good 2835?

 

[Prawn Connery]

Er, maybe because LM301B are 3030 and LM561C are 5630? I don't know what those ones are, though. Someone else might be able to shed some light.

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

Er, maybe because LM301B are 3030 and LM561C are 5630? I don't know what those ones are, though. Someone else might be able to shed some light.

Lol just noticed that, but yes, hopefully, I'm just really curious at this point.

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

Is the 3 tier/level design an indicator of an Epistar LED? It looks like the ones I'm trying to determine have 3 levels.

They look kind of like these, too bad was hoping they were the better efficacy Luxeon chips lol..

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

I wouldn't even bother with those, I'd just get the lm561c boards for 25-30$

I have close to 150 of them, lol, I guess I could buy more QBs, but then when the "new" LEDs come out someone will predictably tell me to replace the LM301b's.

I am going to pick up some panels, but I think I'm going to try to build the mini-QB rack out but solely out of stubbornness now, lol.

 

[EmeraldØsiris]

So if you can NOT see the ESD device then they're high quality?

@Randomblame , @Prawn Connery , what would you say these are?
View attachment 4259428
From my scope, its only like 2.5MP...
View attachment 4259433 View attachment 4259435
View attachment 4259436 View attachment 4259437
View attachment 4259438

Looks like HLG diodes to me. Epistar?

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

Looks like HLG diodes to me. Epistar?

Idk, they're 6v so it narrows it down a bit. Seems they have 3 tiers or layers visible on one side and there are 2 terminal posts on each side split apart from each other.

The design looks like Epistar, but idk how many manufactures use that style of chip (3 tier). The first 6v 2835 that I googled and matched up with the power measurements were Luxeon, but not sure if they are those either. How many no-names are just Epistar and Luxeon, looks like the same style of chip, probably uses the same technology or machine to make it, what's the difference?

Part of what I was trying to get at was they were cheap Chinese diodes but you couldn't see the ESD device. I'm interpreting that people are saying if there is no visible ESD device then it's higher quality?

In my limited knowledge it makes sense that its just the thickness of the phosphor layer, and that if you couldn't see it you probably have a thicker layer than compared to a diode you could see the ESD device. But then if there's a thinner layer you might get more flux (?) than with a thicker layer. Then again with the thicker layer it's probably closer to designed spectrum (?). I don't know what to think about them lol

Ultimately these were 2835 and the lm301b is a 3030 and the lm561c is a 5630. I believe the shape of the chip effects its luminosity so I'm uncertain that even if these 2835 were top quality that they still wouldn't be lacking in a flux comparison based soley on the reflective properties of the different shapes and materials (at least with the 3030 because its symmetrical). But that's just a guess..

Epistar..


No name...


No name...

No name...


Luxeon...


^^^ All these look similar to what I have. I found them on Alibaba but only the Luxeon and Epistar were documented 6v, the others looked similar in terms of structure but were only 3v, all seem to have split terminals and the "3 tier" design...

 

[EmeraldØsiris]

Idk, they're 6v so it narrows it down a bit. Seems they have 3 tiers or layers visible on one side and there are 2 terminal posts on each side split apart from each other.

The design looks like Epistar, but idk how many manufactures use that style of chip (3 tier). The first 6v 2835 that I googled and matched up with the power measurements were Luxeon, but not sure if they are those either. How many no-names are just Epistar and Luxeon, looks like the same style of chip, probably uses the same technology or machine to make it, what's the difference?

Part of what I was trying to get at was they were cheap Chinese diodes but you couldn't see the ESD device. I'm interpreting that people are saying if there is no visible ESD device then it's higher quality?

In my limited knowledge it makes sense that its just the thickness of the phosphor layer, and that if you couldn't see it you probably have a thicker layer than compared to a diode you could see the ESD device. But then if there's a thinner layer you might get more flux (?) than with a thicker layer. Then again with the thicker layer it's probably closer to designed spectrum (?). I don't know what to think about them lol

Ultimately these were 2835 and the lm301b is a 3030 and the lm561c is a 5630. I believe the shape of the chip effects its luminosity so I'm uncertain that even if these 2835 were top quality that they still wouldn't be lacking in a flux comparison based soley on the reflective properties of the different shapes and materials (at least with the 3030 because its symmetrical). But that's just a guess..

Epistar..
View attachment 4259928

No name...
View attachment 4259942

No name...
View attachment 4259944
No name...
View attachment 4259943

Luxeon...
View attachment 4259940 View attachment 4259941

^^^ All these look similar to what I have. I found them on Alibaba but only the Luxeon and Epistar were documented 6v, the others looked similar in terms of structure but were only 3v, all seem to have split terminals and the "3 tier" design...
View attachment 4259945

Haha I was kidding about HLG using Epistar. But if it's from Alibaba and not specified I would guess it's Epistar for sure

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

Haha I was kidding about HLG using Epistar. But if it's from Alibaba and not specified I would guess it's Epistar for sure

Lol funny guy, Its from eBay, they cost $0.80 a piece, I figured they were sourcing parts from Alibaba and putting together domestically or just outright importing the entire product.

I've accumulated them over the years and just want to find a use for them. I currently grow with E27 so a build with these would be a minor upgrade (comparatively) in increased thermal management and the ability to vary the intensity via driver.

 

[EmeraldØsiris]

Lol funny guy, Its from eBay, they cost $0.80 a piece, I figured they were sourcing parts from Alibaba and putting together domestically or just outright importing the entire product.

I've accumulated them over the years and just want to find a use for them. I currently grow with E27 so a build with these would be a minor upgrade (comparatively) in increased thermal management and the ability to vary the intensity via driver.

Perhaps if you contact the eBay seller and ask them?

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

Aside from a "more visual ESD device," is there a measurable difference in the electric properties, resistance or something?

Just looking at some boards and can see the ESD device with the naked eye, want to be able to explain why I want compensation with some sort of credibility.

If I need to break the scope out I will but these are just zoomed in a bit...


Edit: I wasn't expecting lm561c s6 but want to get more at the reduced rate. Like someone else did, I can't remember who lol sorry

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

What's going on here exactly? Did you buy some lm561c boards and suspect that they aren't the correct diodes? If so you should just do what I did, go on mouser or one of those sites and buy an lm561c s6, lm561c s5, lm561b+ diodes of the same color temp and compare under magnification.

You wouldn't happen to have bought yours in 3500°? Could you post the macros of your comparison chips (b+,y, s5, ect)? It's a good idea just trying to save a little time.

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

Mine are 3000k, I was under the impression that 3500k s6 didn't exist but I very well could be wrong.

I found your pics. Thanks, looks like my ESD devices are much more visible than a c

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

Mine are 3000k, I was under the impression that 3500k s6 didn't exist but I very well could be wrong.

There is no electrical test to be conducted to tell definitively, correct?

Ordered:
-lm561b s2
-lm561b plus s0
-lm561b plus s5
-lm561c s5
-lm561c s6


**also, wondering if the 1200mA max is due to a lm561b max current calculation of 150mA...


***also, on these stress tests, can anyone explain the criteria for damage? Or what the results of the tests were??

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

I think they are lm561b, just by the look, from what I've been able to compare them to, from what Ive found online. Probably my biggest nudge is the 1200mA board max or 150mA chip max.

1200mA÷8 (parallel)
=
150mA

The LM561c s5 and s6 are drawing 150mA @ ~2.925v and the LM561b are drawing 150mA @ ~3.078v.


3.078v × 38 (series)
=
116.964v


2.925v × 38 (series)
=
111.150v


As soon as my CC drivers (320h-c2800a) get here I'll dim them down to 1200mA and measure the voltage.

If they are around ~111v, I'll be surprised, but know they are not LM561b (right?). If they are around ~117v then I'll wait till my lm561c s6 single gets here (digi-key) to validate my measurements.

Anyone see any holes to this test? @Stephenj37826 , @nxsov180db , @Randomblame ect...

 

[Randomblame]

I think they are lm561b, just by the look, from what I've been able to compare them to, from what Ive found online. Probably my biggest nudge is the 1200mA board max or 150mA chip max.

1200mA÷8 (parallel)
=
150mA

The LM561c s5 and s6 are drawing 150mA @ ~2.925v and the LM561b are drawing 150mA @ ~3.078v.
View attachment 4263144 View attachment 4263143

3.078v × 38 (series)
=
116.964v


2.925v × 38 (series)
=
111.150v


As soon as my CC drivers (320h-c2800a) get here I'll dim them down to 1200mA and measure the voltage.

If they are around ~111v, I'll be surprised, but know they are not LM561b (right?). If they are around ~117v then I'll wait till my lm561c s6 single gets here (digi-key) to validate my measurements.

Anyone see any holes to this test? @Stephenj37826 , @nxsov180db , @Randomblame ect...

LM561c has lower voltage so 111v with LM561c and 117v with LM561b but they could use a lower voltage bin and in this case the test says nothing.
But you could make a few macro shots of the diodes and upload the pictures here. Its pretty easy to recognize which one it is. We have a few threads about the chinese knock off boards with LM561b and I need only to see them.

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

LM561c has lower voltage so 111v with LM561c and 117v with LM561b but they could use a lower voltage bin and in this case the test says nothing.
But you could make a few macro shots of the diodes and upload the pictures here. Its pretty easy to recognize which one it is. We have a few threads about the chinese knock off boards with LM561b and I need only to see them.

Took 24 macros but can only upload 10. They were about 50/50 for being able to see the ESD (13/24).

5 best...






5 worst...







Everything else was somewhere in between...

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

LM561c has lower voltage so 111v with LM561c and 117v with LM561b but they could use a lower voltage bin and in this case the test says nothing.
But you could make a few macro shots of the diodes and upload the pictures here. Its pretty easy to recognize which one it is. We have a few threads about the chinese knock off boards with LM561b and I need only to see them.

Attached is a .7z zip file of 22 macros (24 put it over 10MB). I couldn't upload as a .7z file so I changed the extension to ".zip." You'll have to re-change it back and hopefully it still works.

Heres a macro of the 660nm just for shits and giggles..

 

[Randomblame]

Attached is a .7z zip file of 22 macros (24 put it over 10MB). I couldn't upload as a .7z file so I changed the extension to ".zip." You'll have to re-change it back and hopefully it still works.

Heres a macro of the 660nm just for shits and giggles..
View attachment 4263220

Wow, thats strange! A few look like true LM561c and a few not. Pretty much variance from chip to chip. With true LM561c the little dark dot next to the chip is almost invisible.
But I would say its LM561c but not sure if its really S6..

Invisible


Visible..



And the 660's are for sure Epistar diodes or Sanan..
Samsung LH351H looks different..

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

The drivers came and these were the measurements of the Folite Plus QB304+ with 660nm.

1200mA read 107.2v at begining cool temperatures, and settled @ 105.0v after the board equalized its passive resting temp of 155°F.

107.2v ÷ 38
~
2.82v

I added (4) 1.44w 7cm×7cm fans ontop of the heatsink (from what I can tell seems to be similar to a slate 1, a slate 2 is what I'd want in the future) and continued testing.


1200mA + (4) 1.4w fans = 106°F
1280mA + (4) 1.4w fans = 109°F
1320mA + (4) 1.4w fans = 112°F

1320mA measured 108.2v initially and settled @ 107.7v while reaching a final resting temp of 112°F (with fans).

1320mA ÷ 8
~
165mA

108.2 ÷ 38
~
2.85v

1.32A × 107.7v
~
142w


EDIT: I know they aren't high voltage chips which narrows it down slightly, but I still wish there was a definitive electrical test to determine chip identity.