Mycorrhizal fungi applications for cannabis - the caveats

Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Wolverine97 said:
Thanks for the info, I'll definitely check him out. I'm attending a master gardeners course locally this spring, we'll see how that goes.
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I'm a Master Gardener and loved the course and networking. Have fun.

If you aren't using it already, I'd highly recommend adding some trichoderma species as a soil innoculant in addition to the myc's.
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The product I use (Soluble Maxx) has trikes. http://www.mycorrhizae.com/tools-tips-products

Notice the article says it takes 3 weeks for the fungi to germinate. Also note the shysters like Humboldt are buying their products, reducing the amount of product by a 1/3 and selling the repackaged product for 3 times as much.

dannyboy602 said:
So as to your question of how fast does it contribute to rate of growth and overall plant health I'd say pretty darn fast.
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Just a thought, once you've established a colony, applied it, you should not have to apply it again.

Plant roots alone may be incapable of taking up phosphate ions that are demineralized, for example, in soils with a basic pH. The mycelium of the mycorrhizal fungus can, however, access these phosphorus sources, and make them available
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Yep. The link I gave you explains the P thingie.

rjl said:
UB,
I am intrigued by this thread and am going to start a program with careful documentation using Arbustular Mycorrhizal fungus. DIEHARD™ Root Reviver™, from Forestry Suppliers, Inc.
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Good luck with that.

Your comment in the first post “The use of this product is best when you're using soil-less potting mixes as mixes rich in compost will likely not see any real world benefit.” Indicates that one may use the following from your recipe:

a good organic soil, washed builder's sand, organic’s, horse manure and eco-wacky friend’s compost (he gets his green material free from the city, so the base material consists of leaves, grass clippings, twigs, chipped trees and then adds horse manure to the final mix).

can I assume that this mixture would be correct for a “soil-less” potting mix? I am trying to grasp the concept of myco’s and how they live, and feed. I do know that they have a symbiotic relationship with the host roots, which I assume will need feeding at some point.
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You can add it to your soil-less mix if that's what you mean. It'll just kick up a notch. See the link above. It covers all mediums and practices.

FWIW, don't know if I mentioned this but I recently got a test back from the Aggie bio-solids division of their water and soil testing lab and my friend's compost is gold when it comes to NPK values, it's a 13-5-8, has all micros, Ca, Mg and of course is loaded with humic/fulvic acids, microbes, etc. I put about a yd. in my garden and dumped the rest in my compost pile, which consists of wood shavings and misc. stuff. To that I added a drench of ammonium sulfate to feed the microbes N, lower the pH and poured on a drench of Myco-Apply Soluble Maxx. If you have the place for it and the materials, this is the way to go for several reasons - you know what's in it, you can gain a lot of bulk, and it's cheap. If you're in an apartment, then start a worm farm using an old ice box.

Good luck,
UB
 
rjl

rjl

Member
Uncle Ben in his first post; I recently applied 30 gallons of a MycoApply soluble product to alot of plant material, not cannabis, but all the same as I applied it to very similiar plants regarding their botanical makeup, growth habits, etc. I will be able to judge the results by the end of this growing season as a control group was set aside with no treatment. After reading the entire thread, I decided to delve into fungicides. I spent a day researching on the internet, and decided on a product known as "Diehard Root Reviver", a dry granular mycorrhizal fungi inoculant "cocktail" consisting of endo- and ectomycorrhizal fungi. The fungi was applied to two (2), 29 day old afghan plants that were started from seeds. I applied per instruction, 36 oz's of the product. Each plant got three holes around the root ball, about 4 inches from the plant stem 10 inches deep. 6 ounces granular fungi of fungi per hole was applied. Another 2 inches of top soil was added and the mycorrhizal fungi were "watered in" with approximately one gallon of distilled water without nutes. Also, two (2) clones from the "true node topping procedure" from the aforementioned plants, now showing roots from their jiffy pellets, were administered 2 ounces granular fungi. Procedure In layers: place two inches of soil in bottom of pot, add 2 ounces of fungi granules, add 2 inches soil, add jiffy pellet root ball and additional soil as needed to cover root ball. Firmly press down and apply generous amount of distilled H2O until saturated. place in humidity dome for 48 hours under 20/4 lighting.
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Prefontaine

Prefontaine

Well-Known Member
I use great white, I water with nutes great white and guano every time, each 3-5 days depending on soil moisture, when the top of the soil is drying I can see fungus clearly, whether or not plants benefit from microbes is not a debatable topic, they do, you can grow without them, but your are putting extra effort into growing against the plants natural design,

the snake oils are usually just nutritional mixes designed specifically to boost microbial populations, healthy populations=increased nutrient uptake=bigger denser buds.

I am considering using a tiny bit of molasses in my watering too, to feed the beneficial bacteria. but only a tiny bit.
 
B

born2killspam

Well-Known Member
Prefontaine said:
I use great white, I water with nutes great white and guano every time, each 3-5 days depending on soil moisture, when the top of the soil is drying I can see fungus clearly, whether or not plants benefit from microbes is not a debatable topic, they do, you can grow without them, but your are putting extra effort into growing against the plants natural design,

the snake oils are usually just nutritional mixes designed specifically to boost microbial populations, healthy populations=increased nutrient uptake=bigger denser buds.

I am considering using a tiny bit of molasses in my watering too, to feed the beneficial bacteria. but only a tiny bit.
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The amount of benefit will vary depending on the health of your soil, and the type of nutes you use.. If you use hydroponics ferts in soil then there won't be as much benefit, because they are designed to be plant available in a sterile environment.. (Yet there will likely be some small benefit due to the subtle things that hydro doesn't typically offer the plants..) If your soil is extremely good then you won't notice as much benefit as if it was crappy soil, but likely won't hurt anything and will likely only boost it.. These things just suppliment the soil health.. Soil is a living growing thing in its own right..
On another note, feed those microbes.. They like complex food like compost and molasses/sugars for energization, O2, and reproduction.. When they're healthy and satisfied they do their best job at breaking down things that plants can't use to things plant want..
I used to use bush soil from deciduous valley areas with really humus soil.. There is a reason those areas are so fertile.. That is risky though I admit, so if you have the money for a guaranteed infestation free product that has proven itself, I have no argument..
 
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supremegrowers

Member
aeviaanah said:
I use age old grow mycorrhizae. i read in urban garden magazine today that synthetic nutrients will not harm mycorrhizal fungi.
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Just a heads up friends! Mycorrhizae may not technically be killed by chemical fertilizers, but enough chemical fertilizers will put them into dormancy, so they are inactive and sleeping. this is as bad as them being dead imo. I use myco with lots of success and am able to feed less nutes and get bigger plants,roots and buds. remember that the mycorrhizae (I use MycoBlast because its strong) grows long root hypae (long hairs that absorb water/nutes) from places that roots can not. they also are a fungus so they can absorb nutrients like PH directly from the soil and then trans-locate it via arbuscles, directly to the cell membrane of the root tissue. the result is more nutrition to the plant while using less fertilizer overall. I have many articles that break it down into simple terms. try this one for starters http://www.supremegrowers.com/news/22/3-key-benefits-of-mycorrhizae-in-the-garden-.html If you are really into reaping the advantages of organics and mycorrhizae, use any chem fertilizers at about 20%-30% strength, and try to use something myco friendly. Organic fertilizers like Age Old will not hurt mycorrhizae at all. Salts like GH 3 part will slow them to a crawl. Canna nutes work well with myco populations. learn more and get myco for under $3 at www.supremegrowers.com
grow kind and stay kind
happy gardening
 
cannawizard

cannawizard

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
First off, for those of you who have followed my rants over the years, you know how much I disdain "snake oils" aka "rocket fuels" and the shysters that push them. I do keep an open mind and will take the plunge from time to time but so far I feel I've wasted my money. IOW, if it sounds too good to be true, then it usually is. I consider most of the organic market push to be a big racket based on idealogical fervor and greed. I attended a professional workshop on the use of non-conventional soil additives where such products were applied in field studies with all kinds of crops throughout the U.S. and all products tested (about 10) were found to have no beneficial affect on crop production. Having said that, this raises the question, when can some of these "snake oils" be of benefit to the cannabis gardener? Which brings me to my latest experiment.......

I recently applied 30 gallons of a MycoApply soluble product to alot of plant material, not cannabis, but all the same as I applied it to very similiar plants regarding their botanical makeup, growth habits, etc. I will be able to judge the results by the end of this growing season as a control group was set aside with no treatment.

There are quite a few such products containing either or both endo (hyphae within the roots) and ecto (hyphae on the roots) type species, I chose what is considered the most complete and best product in the industry for broad spectrum use - trees, conifers, grapevines, veggies, roses, potted plants, etc. (Not all fungi species will work under all circumstances.... soil conditions, temps, etc.) This brand is also the cheapest and is regulated. A long conversation with a company tech confirmed that indeed their product is bonafide. Of course an electron microscope would come in handy for a quick and easy check. :p For about $45 (which included shipping) I am able to make up to 200 gallons of an active soil drench. I used a product called Soluble MaXX which contains:

9 Species Endo (31,200 prop/lb)
11 Species Ecto (1.5 billion prop/lb)
2 Species Trichoderma, a Biostimulant Package and Beneficial Bacteria

The use of this product is best when you're using soil-less potting mixes as mixes rich in compost will likely not see any real world benefit. Now here is the rub - this fungi comes dormant with a carrier and takes time to become active, work up an active colony in the root zone. Is it active by the time you harvest, or a week after application while your plants are in the juvenile stage?

If you wish to experiment with such products it is imperative that you also have a control group and take careful notes, which no one seems to want to do, instead seeing what they want or expect to see. Upon harvest it would be wise to inspect the root system to see if a fungi colony did indeed develop. The grower is still subject to good plant practices so your mileage will vary.

I take the approach that gardening is all about tweaks, the use of bonafide products might be worth experimenting with, then again you might be throwing good money after bad. Hoo nose?

Good luck,
UB
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*that made sense.. " imperative that you also have a control group and take careful notes, which no one seems to want to do,"... been neglecting that.. thnx uncle ben, damn this post is 2009..
--i wonder if you have any 'new' input after all these years :) would like to learn what you've discovered.

--cheers
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
cannawizard said:
*that made sense.. " imperative that you also have a control group and take careful notes, which no one seems to want to do,"... been neglecting that.. thnx uncle ben, damn this post is 2009..
--i wonder if you have any 'new' input after all these years :) would like to learn what you've discovered.

--cheers
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Yeah, that I'm $60 poorer with no conclusions regarding the value of any of these additives. :)
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
cannawizard said:
*hhmm.. so i guess im better off with microbes present from rich compost.. :)
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Yep. Funny you should mention that. I just finished a new section of my garden which is now 1/4 native clay loam, the rest sandy loam and BLACK horse compost manure in a raised bed. Maters will surely be 10' tall, not the typical wimpy 6 footers.

UB
 
cannawizard

cannawizard

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
Yep. Funny you should mention that. I just finished a new section of my garden which is now 1/4 native clay loam, the rest sandy loam and BLACK horse compost manure in a raised bed. Maters will surely be 10' tall, not the typical wimpy 6 footers.

UB
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*gd uncle, im jelly :).. i hope, soon one day, have "backyard" space to do that.. ; been researching that japanese fermentation (not the one that was bottled.. lol) process.. good stuff
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
cannawizard said:
*gd uncle, im jelly :).. i hope, soon one day, have "backyard" space to do that.. ; been researching that japanese fermentation (not the one that was bottled.. lol) process.. good stuff
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Ya need to add a greenhouse to that backyard too. I just did.....a big sucka!
 
Wolverine97

Wolverine97

Well-Known Member
cannawizard said:
*hhmm.. so i guess im better off with microbes present from rich compost.. :)
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Much better off if you can control any nasties that may be present. Bottled/powdered microbes can't even compare in strength to that which grow naturally (and in proper balance) in compost.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
What's interesting is the color of this horse manure compost, it's black which means its super high in humates and of course microbes. No nasties, this stuff was taken from riding horse stables along with the bedding straw and sat there in a pile months if not a year or so. I just hope I didn't burn a bunch of stuff as we've had no rain to speak of in 12 months. I applied it everywhere in mass using tractor bucket loads. We're talking yards of the stuff, not bags.

Nothing's green anymore, just dirt - no creeks, rivers, big lakes drying up old native trees dieing. Worst drought and record breaking heat.....ever.
 
wyteboi

wyteboi

Well-Known Member
cannawizard said:
been researching that japanese fermentation (not the one that was bottled.. lol) process.. good stuff
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That's a very amazing subject. I have a anaerobic brew of compost and i have aerobic compost an worm bins.
It's dr. Higa's research that i have been reading i think ? is that the japaneese fermentation your referring to ?







soil
 
Wolverine97

Wolverine97

Well-Known Member
wyteboi said:
That's a very amazing subject. I have a anaerobic brew of compost and i have aerobic compost an worm bins.
It's dr. Higa's research that i have been reading i think ? is that the japaneese fermentation your referring to ?



soil
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The method is called Bokashi unless I'm mistaken, which is possible.
 
wyteboi

wyteboi

Well-Known Member
Wolverine97 said:
The method is called Bokashi unless I'm mistaken, which is possible.
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yea that is dr higa's stuff. Bokashi and EM are very good things to research. Its fun.

I make bokashi oatmeal for my doggy. all my scraps go into the bokashi bucket until i decide to feed the worms. My EM just finished brewing , so its time to use on my girls, they love it.





soil
 
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