Lets be honest and talk about microbes there use, affects and cost

getogrow

getogrow

Well-Known Member
Northwood said:
It looks to be more fungi action than bacterial, if visuals have anything to do with it. No idea what that fungi is though, although I could take some guesses.
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This is where im lost at. Visuals show fungal activity. The lack of aerating the mix makes me think the "good bacteria" is not populating and growing.

I have always turned my composting piles for more air so i would never see fungi grow. Am i lacking fungi or are you lacking bacteria ? or maybe both together is best ?

Edit: i suppose the proof is easy enough to find. If your organic inputs are turned into plant food within a few weeks then its working ....
 
MICHI-CAN

MICHI-CAN

Well-Known Member
getogrow said:
This is where im lost at. Visuals show fungal activity. The lack of aerating the mix makes me think the "good bacteria" is not populating and growing.

I have always turned my composting piles for more air so i would never see fungi grow. Am i lacking fungi or are you lacking bacteria ? or maybe both together is best ?

Edit: i suppose the proof is easy enough to find. If your organic inputs are turned into plant food within a few weeks then its working ....
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I till my compost pile at least twice per year with a weed eater/tiller. It works. The secret to my success is keep it moist and add shredded oak, hardwood or similar. Becareful on wood types. Some are no no's. Pines! Unless spruce.
 
DCcan

DCcan

Well-Known Member
White paper on "Emerging diseases of Cannabis sativa and sustainable management"

:arrow:link





(A)–(C) Fusarium causes yellowing of foliage and internal stem necrosis.
(D)–(F) Pythium causes wilt and crown necrosis.
(G)–(I) Golovinomyces causes powdery mildew on leaves and inflorescences.
(J)–(L) Botrytis causes bud rot.
Respective pathogen cultures are shown in (C), (F) and (L).
 
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DCcan

DCcan

Well-Known Member
Anyone besides me trying Gliocladium catenulatum. Also known as: Clonostachys rosea strain J1446, isolated from peat soil in Finland.
So far, so good for damping off. Mixes with just about anything for application. Lives on live plant tissue, dead plant material, other organisms.
Can live for weeks after foliar applicating on leaves and buds, lives on in the soil, survives freezing, colonizes the entire plant like B.bassiana.
I inoculated the seedlings and growing medium so far, can be applied at any time to colonize the plant and roots.

Gliocladium catenulatum strain J1446

Biopesticide properties for Gliocladium catenulatum strain J1446, including approvals, environmental fate, eco-toxicity and human health issues
sitem.herts.ac.uk

www.researchgate.net

(PDF) Peer review of the pesticide risk assessment of the active substance Clonostachys rosea strain J1446 (approved in Regulation (EU) No 540/2011 as Gliocladium catenulatum strain J1446)

PDF | The conclusions of the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA) following the peer review of the initial risk assessments carried out by the... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate
www.researchgate.net www.researchgate.net
 
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DCcan

DCcan

Well-Known Member
What's growing in your buds?

White paper on "Diverse mycoflora present on dried cannabis inflorescences in commercial production"


Fig. 6 Colony morphologies of the more distinct fungi that were recovered from cannabis flowers
(a) Penicillium copticola.
(b) Penicillium pancosmium.
(c) Talaromyces radicus.
(d) Top view of colony features of Talaromyces pinophilus (upper left), P. pancosmium (upper right), P. sclerotiorum (lower left), P. glabrum (lower right). (e) Bottom view of the same cultures shown in (d) with characteristic pigment production


(a), the brown colonies are Cladosporium westeerdijkieae, the blue-green colonies are Penicillium olsonii, and the white colonies are P. spathulatum. (b), the yellow colonies are Aspergillus ochraceus and the remainder are Penicillium spp., including P. olsonii, P. simplicissimum and P. glabrum.
 
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N

Northwood

Well-Known Member
DCcan said:
Anyone besides me trying Gliocladium catenulatum. Also known as: Clonostachys rosea strain J1446, isolated from peat soil in Finland.
So far, so good for damping off. Mixes with just about anything for application. Lives on live plant tissue, dead plant material, other organisms.
Can live for weeks after foliar applicating on leaves and buds, lives on in the soil, survives freezing, colonizes the entire plant like B.bassiana.
I inoculated the seedlings and growing medium so far, can be applied at any time to colonize the plant and roots.

Gliocladium catenulatum strain J1446

Biopesticide properties for Gliocladium catenulatum strain J1446, including approvals, environmental fate, eco-toxicity and human health issues
sitem.herts.ac.uk

www.researchgate.net

(PDF) Peer review of the pesticide risk assessment of the active substance Clonostachys rosea strain J1446 (approved in Regulation (EU) No 540/2011 as Gliocladium catenulatum strain J1446)

PDF | The conclusions of the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA) following the peer review of the initial risk assessments carried out by the... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate
www.researchgate.net www.researchgate.net
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Where did you buy it? I know ATCC sells stuff like this, but only to government and academic research institutions.
 
DCcan

DCcan

Well-Known Member
Northwood said:
Where did you buy it? I know ATCC sells stuff like this, but only to government and academic research institutions.
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You can order it from Amazon also, manufacturer has a store under VivaGrow, sometimes with a $10 coupon.
www.arbico-organics.com

LALSTOP® G46 WG

If you've been looking for Prestop WG, look no further. LALSTOP G46 WG is the same powerful organic fungicide, containing the same naturally occurring fungus Gliocladium catenulatum Strain J1446 in the same quantity, as the ever-popular Prestop WG. You can rest assured that this re-branding...
www.arbico-organics.com
 
N

Northwood

Well-Known Member
DCcan said:
You can order it from Amazon also, manufacturer has a store under VivaGrow, sometimes with a $10 coupon.
www.arbico-organics.com

LALSTOP® G46 WG

If you've been looking for Prestop WG, look no further. LALSTOP G46 WG is the same powerful organic fungicide, containing the same naturally occurring fungus Gliocladium catenulatum Strain J1446 in the same quantity, as the ever-popular Prestop WG. You can rest assured that this re-branding...
www.arbico-organics.com
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Thanks! That's a huge package. Good item for a group buy I'd say.

It looks like the one on Amazon.com is out of stock or something right now. I live in Canada so that makes things a bit trickier for items like this unfortunately :(
 
Phabio007

Phabio007

Well-Known Member
From my understanding, having the most biodiverse microbe colonies possible promote the best growth possible. From OP's original statement, it seems we're implying some microbes fight with others? I'm using TerraGrow, Real Grower's Recharge, and Unsulfured blackstrap molasses feeds along with the microbe colonies formed by the Nutrient Line I use, Dr. Earth.

SDS and Info sheet for TerraGrow

Terra Grow

Real Grower's Recharge Label

Real Grower's Recharge

Dr. Earth 4-6-3 Homegrown Label

Homegrown

Dr. Earth 3-9-4 Flower Girl

Flower Girl

My bud comes out tasting 10x better and 10x smoother than any smoke I've ever had. I attribute that all to a healthy microbe colony in my medium and keeping those guys fed. Also keeps the plants are all extremely healthy. I have had 0 pest issues (bugs or otherwise) since I've been going heavy with my microbes. Always looking to expand my microbe diversity and knowledge.
 
N

Northwood

Well-Known Member
Phabio007 said:
From OP's original statement, it seems we're implying some microbes fight with others?
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Not only fight with each other but also eat each other, and they'll cheat in war and use chemical warfare against their enemies. If that doesn't work, they'll just try dominate and use all the food to themselves. The microscopic world is a terrifying place that you wouldn't want to be born into. Lol
 
DCcan

DCcan

Well-Known Member
Phabio007 said:
From my understanding, having the most biodiverse microbe colonies possible promote the best growth possible. From OP's original statement, it seems we're implying some microbes fight with others?....
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They seem to work it out. All that mixed microbes stuff seems just fine. It keeps anything else from moving in.
They produce different enzymes, sulfur compounds, plant growth regulators, bacterial inhibitors.
The ones that live only on the roots should be applied first, (mykos) then applying any hyper parasitic products that can live on roots, leaves, soil, dead plant material, like Trichoderma, later.
 
DCcan

DCcan

Well-Known Member
getogrow said:
www.vivagrow.com

LALSTOP G46 Biofungicide 100 Gram (Prestop WG)

LalStop G46 Biofungicide WG 100 Gram (Prestop WG)
www.vivagrow.com www.vivagrow.com

im interested myself....
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I think it keeps 1 year at room temp, 3 frozen. Saw another biotic, PFR-97 Isaria fumosorosea Apopka, but had 30 day shelf life in the fridge

The pepper plants are furthest along with a dose, and the growing medium has been intentionally kept rather cold and damp, zero damping or rot.
Growing across the soil and decayed matter in the houseplants now.
Mostly I'm looking at foliar use when the buds come out in the outdoor garden.
1.8~2gm/ gal makes 50-60 gallons @$3/gal, so enough to inoculate the garden soil, spray the carrier plants in the area (tomatoes, lilacs and cucumbers)
and 2 sprays in flower.
 
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getogrow

getogrow

Well-Known Member
xtsho said:
Brown rice, local microbes, and brown sugar. I have another batch going now as well. Collect and grow your own IMO. No need to buy anything.

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I just finished my first batch myself. It smells identical to EM, so i know im on the right path. If it is like EM , which i think its the same, then you only need one batch and you can make several hundred gallons from the one batch.
1 part finished local microbe juice to 1 part sugar to 20 parts water and it will cook the exact same way. You can do this forever.... When its done cooking then seal it up and put it in a cool dry place. it last a LONG time.

I may be wrong but i think the secret ingredients is what makes the shelf like longer. Adding things like kelp with your carb source. maybe even rock dust and shit like that.
Im also almost positive that you can make bokashi with our local brews too.....that opens a shiton more doors... God bless nature :weed:
 
DCcan

DCcan

Well-Known Member
I've been leery of making more bokashi since drinking out of the aged beer can with cigarette butts.
Never got sick, other than the normal gag reaction. All types stuff in nicotine, probably not the best ingredient.
 
N

Northwood

Well-Known Member
DCcan said:
I've been leery of making more bokashi since drinking out of the aged beer can with cigarette butts.
Never got sick, other than the normal gag reaction. All types stuff in nicotine, probably not the best ingredient.
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I used to work on a tobacco farm while still an undergrad in university. You wouldn't believe the herbicide they drench it with shortly after "topping". It's used as a PGR, in this case to prevent the growth of side branches that would otherwise be stimulated to grow after being topped. Some still grow, but "burnt" looking. Those all have to be picked off later, and that activity is called "suckering".
 
D

dirtfromohio

Member
DCcan said:
The ones that live only on the roots should be applied first, (mykos) then applying any hyper parasitic products that can live on roots, leaves, soil, dead plant material, like Trichoderma, later.
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I think the first part you're talking about inoculating with a mycorrhizal fungi. You would do this first and really only once, maybe twice if you wanted to be sure. And you do it as early into a plant's life as possible. That network is going to establish itself and, depending on what the plant tells it to do, grow or shrink. It essentially becomes a part of the plant and the plant becomes a part of it. Once you get your seedling into some medium then you apply the beneficial bacteria that we see in lot of products. Then after you are comfortable that you've established a healthy and thriving bacterial colony in your dirt you would apply the trichoderms.

I can get down with that. But how would a product like Recharge fit in here when it's like, everything you mentioned. It has some small amount of mycorrhizal spores, some beneficial bactera, some trichoderms, some dead plant material. I feel like it's some weird all in one "booster" and not even a real fixer. Like on the package it says "guaranteed better looking plants in 48 hours" or something like that. Well it has kelp in it so plants are generally gonna like that as a food. So now that that's there gotta make sure plants can eat it so the bacterial colony that's maybe activated should help to buffer things a little and allow the plants to uptake that humic and fulvic acids. Not sure what the purpose of using this as a mycorrhizal inoculant would be, though. Using it at the beginning of a grow seems pretty wasteful but that's when you want to inoculate with mycorrhizae. And then yeah so anyway the microbes are doing their thing breaking stuff down for the plant to eat and then the trichoderms are also add at the same time so are they just decimating the microbe colony you're trying to establish before they even have a chance?

You'd think I have some personal vendetta against Recharge but it just seems like this immensely wasteful product. And if it can be compared to many of the other microbe products on the market, there might not even be any active life in a bag of recharge by the time a retail consumer gets their hands on it. So many other products are lab tested to be completely lying on their labels.

Anyway, didn't mean to rant again. Still get heated when I see people applying Recharge more than once or twice in a grow. If you have to do that to see a boost in your plants there are other issues you need to address in your garden. IMO you shouldn't really be able to "boost" your plants into looking better. If you're caring for them and meeting their needs they're gonna look as best as they are capable of per their genetics.
 
getogrow

getogrow

Well-Known Member
dirtfromohio said:
I think the first part you're talking about inoculating with a mycorrhizal fungi. You would do this first and really only once, maybe twice if you wanted to be sure. And you do it as early into a plant's life as possible. That network is going to establish itself and, depending on what the plant tells it to do, grow or shrink. It essentially becomes a part of the plant and the plant becomes a part of it. Once you get your seedling into some medium then you apply the beneficial bacteria that we see in lot of products. Then after you are comfortable that you've established a healthy and thriving bacterial colony in your dirt you would apply the trichoderms.

I can get down with that. But how would a product like Recharge fit in here when it's like, everything you mentioned. It has some small amount of mycorrhizal spores, some beneficial bactera, some trichoderms, some dead plant material. I feel like it's some weird all in one "booster" and not even a real fixer. Like on the package it says "guaranteed better looking plants in 48 hours" or something like that. Well it has kelp in it so plants are generally gonna like that as a food. So now that that's there gotta make sure plants can eat it so the bacterial colony that's maybe activated should help to buffer things a little and allow the plants to uptake that humic and fulvic acids. Not sure what the purpose of using this as a mycorrhizal inoculant would be, though. Using it at the beginning of a grow seems pretty wasteful but that's when you want to inoculate with mycorrhizae. And then yeah so anyway the microbes are doing their thing breaking stuff down for the plant to eat and then the trichoderms are also add at the same time so are they just decimating the microbe colony you're trying to establish before they even have a chance?

You'd think I have some personal vendetta against Recharge but it just seems like this immensely wasteful product. And if it can be compared to many of the other microbe products on the market, there might not even be any active life in a bag of recharge by the time a retail consumer gets their hands on it. So many other products are lab tested to be completely lying on their labels.

Anyway, didn't mean to rant again. Still get heated when I see people applying Recharge more than once or twice in a grow. If you have to do that to see a boost in your plants there are other issues you need to address in your garden. IMO you shouldn't really be able to "boost" your plants into looking better. If you're caring for them and meeting their needs they're gonna look as best as they are capable of per their genetics.
Click to expand...
great post sir
 
getogrow

getogrow

Well-Known Member
xtsho said:
Brown rice, local microbes, and brown sugar. I have another batch going now as well. Collect and grow your own IMO. No need to buy anything.
Click to expand...
20210515_140347_HDR.jpg

My local effective* microbes.


* "Effective" may mean poisonous in my case :eyesmoke:

I brewed this batch with a couple tbsp's of my first batch. After i make bokashi with it , i may or may not need to add yeast for a quicker breakdown.
 
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