Lets be honest and talk about microbes there use, affects and cost

1joeblowuknow

New Member
Microbes convert npk to increase plant health, reduce stress and disease and increase yield. Some are better at this than others. Some are good at npk conversion while others are best at nitrogen fixing abilities. Some microbes are more aggressive than others and will actually dominate the microbiome. Like tricaderma they are good but aggressive and not the best at converting npk and nitrogen fixing. So my point is do you really understand how to use microbials and are you getting the best bang for your buck. Lets start the thread !
 

1joeblowuknow

New Member
I have limited time but want to reach as many of the influencers as possible. For starters pls forgive my grammar. ok here we go.

Ok so as everyone is finding out microbes and parasitic fungi are powerful tools that are allowing growers to achieve higher yields with stronger plants. We are finding that using microbes and fungi or beenies or what ever you want to call are very safe and effective ways to prevent and attack insects and disease.

Now what products do we use ?

Companion
Myco Jordan
Roots
Mammoth P
Triple Threat
Em-1
Mbx Grow
Root Shield
microbe lift
Bio-Ag
Azos
X treme mycos
Great white
Orca
The list is long. so we need to understand whats in them and, how strong is the mix/Cost? and effect and yield and quality.

After some time spent researching the data and actually trying the products on cannabis I would like to start the conversation there. As usual alot of product makers are not to forth coming about how the product actual works. Its more about promotion vs education.

Lets look at a common mix of microbes from a popular brand. 7 species Endomycorrhizae & 11 species Ectomycorrhizae
• 67,000 Endo & 1.5 billion Ecto Propagules per lb.
• 19 species Bacteria/ 2 species Trichoderma
• Biostimulant & Vitamin Package

Now what happens when this mix is used on cannabis? Ok lets say we will eliminate the ectomycos because they are for some trees. The endos are good but the trichoderma are far more aggresive and will actually compete and eat the remaining Endos. So it looks like we are getting the most benifits from this popular mix by the Trichoderma and maybe also the "biostimulant" ??? Not sure what that
specifically is, and the vitamins.

So that brings me to are trichoderma being as aggressive as they are the best option for cannabis.

I am positive the are not. There are more effective microbes and they are bacillus. Now I will predict that someone will argue that there are so many other beneficials and we should use a more whole approach to achieving a healthy and thriving microbiome. I agree. I also will say that to be clear using competitive exclusion tactics with microbes is just that and building a healthy microbioem can be done in different ways. For instance guy lives on farm he has all the healthy organic imputs he needs to build healthy soills and microbiomes. The guy in a indoor grow lab using areoponics has to take a different approach.

These are the folks I really want to join the thread. This is because under these indoor or medium less enviros we need to have a more designed effective science meets ag meets biotechnology approach and this is where the Bacillus comes in strong. I have a whole lot of independent and in house data that proves bacillus is performing stronger than other micros. Each particular species and subspecies is different and performs different symbiotic functions with and within the plant.

So this brings us to ............Drum Beat >>>......>>>>...>>>...>>>.. who or what product has the most effective bacillus subspecies . this will directly effect yield and plant quality. It is measurable. Just a simple test with different products and we are all to having the data and proof of which person or company can bring the highest yields to the grower because of the particular subspecies they have are the best at doing what they do. Just like humans and canna strains all dont function with the same effects or efficiencies. Dont believe me just try going against Shaq in basketball. Both are human but 1 is better genetics.

We reduce nutrient strengths by 1/2 and increase yield and quality because disease and pests are defeated naturally. Plant health, brix levels, and genetic defenses within the plant are all functioning properly now because of the symbiosis with the microbes. Plants producing sugars and the microbes are converting more NPK's, releasing , aminos and enzymes all together in sync.

Now if you have multiple species of bacillus working together and you use the competitive exclusion method by introducing at a level that you have all good microbes thriving then the bad guys dont ever get a chance to get established. Ok here is a area where people are going to doubt or even hate on me.

As I have explained above this is the way you get 30-50% yield increases when others are getting 16% at most. To make even more skeptics this combo of aggressive
bacillus costs a fraction of the cost folks are paying for microbes now.

I want to make it clear I am not here to push or promote or even suggest any particular product. I am here to speak to understanding what we are using , how they work, are they safe and the cost and return.


Lets get some experienced members or mentors to vet what I am saying and to shed light on the truth and cut through the power of large companies to manipulate public opinion through sites like this and others. Lets see if we the little people and the simple grower or patient can have a voice of truth and educate folks for the good of great clean medicine that we know cannabis is.

For my love of cannabis growing and consuming is strong and as passionate as ever. I have had a grow room, greenhouse, or field ever since I fell in love with this plant over 30 years ago. tangerine-dream2-624x413.jpg 20181217_091628.jpg dads pics 2017 486.jpg
 

LinguaPeel

Well-Known Member
I use microbes that naturally exist in the Cannabis plant. Dont need to know what they are or what they do, just have to accept reality, that Cannabis would be extinct if they didn't work. So why harvest from a source the plant didn't co-evolve with? When the entire problem is killing off/replacing these microbes?

Their role could be as simple as taking up seating, leaving no room for foreign microbes. Doesnt matter. Just let nature do its thing and quit putting foreign microbes and foreign microbe food on your Cannabis.
 

xtsho

Well-Known Member
I've never payed for microbe products. A good soil will already have all you need. I grow in coco with chemical salts and I get roots just like that without microbes.

I just don't see the need for any of those products. A good grower doesn't need all that stuff. Cannabis is just a plant. I have a harder time growing orchids or eggplant than I do cannabis. The cannabis nute industry is full of unnecessary products that transfer your money into someone else's pocket because they've marketed cannabis as some special plant that needs all this special stuff. It doesn't. It's one of the easiest plants to grow if you just leave it alone and don't dump a bunch of stuff on it it will do great. At least that's what my decades of growing have shown me.
 

Don_Sequitor

Well-Known Member
Microbes work on a small scale.

My understanding is that the addition of microbes to a soil solution will increase fertilizer use efficiency resulting in greater total plant biomass for seedlings.

That being said, the PGP (plant growth promoting) product might be more expensive than the fertilizer. And costs could easily offset the percent increase in fertilizer use efficiency. Hope this helps. There might be significant beneficial use on a small scale, such as cloning.
 

Thegermling

Well-Known Member
Microbes help with everything you listed but the reason I use them is to help coat the roots with a protective barrier against pathogens. I grow in pure coco and use salts and I use recharge (compatible with salt instensive grows) and og biowar. Never lost a plant to disease yet. Youre better of with them either way.
 

eyderbuddy

Well-Known Member
Real Growers Recharge & Photosynthesis Plus are good products if you're doing a soil or coco mix.
If you're doing pure hydro go with Tribus (impello) or Photsynthesis Plus.

You can grow OK bud by just using nutes. But using microbes improves almost everything without any fuzz...
 

Logan Burke

Well-Known Member
I use microbes in my DWC system, and in that regard it's for a different purpose than soil growers may use them for. I know that many soil growers use microbes to assist, or sometimes even as the primary mechanism of action, for breaking down nutrients. But being in hydro using synthetic nutes, I only use them to prevent root rot and aid in root growth. But nevertheless, it is an important factor of my grow. Herb and Suds turned me onto the brand of beneficial bacteria he uses, which I intend on giving a try alongside with Photosynthesis Plus after my current grow and my current batch of bennies has been used up. :)
Real Growers Recharge & Photosynthesis Plus are good products if you're doing a soil or coco mix.
If you're doing pure hydro go with Tribus (impello) or Photsynthesis Plus.

You can grow OK bud by just using nutes. But using microbes improves almost everything without any fuzz...
I am currently using Great White in DWC, but I am really excited to try the Photosynthesis Plus on my upcoming run along with the other one Herbs and Suds showed me.
 

hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
Great White is as common in the professional grow areas here as nitrogen is in the air. I think it’s way too expensive and Xtreme Mykos WP is as good. Get a sample packet. Take 2 plants in Dixie cups that you are transplanting into soil or peat. Dust one after you remove the cup and transplant. Transplant the other without dusting it. The root area if that needs explanation. Then check the difference in root development. Mycorrhizae is present in the root zone of almost 90% of plant growing environments. Nature can’t be wrong. It’s not magic.
 

xtsho

Well-Known Member
good for ya'
Yes it's always good to not spend money you don't have to. I don't buy into all the cannabis specific marketing hype. I just grow them as I would any of the other dozens of plants I grow. I've been growing things for almost fifty years. I've never seen the money grab that I'm seeing targeted towards cannabis growers. So many have bought into the nonsense and seem happy to give their money away. I'm not one of them.

Roots grow just fine without spending money on unnecessary and unneeded products.

 

Kushash

Well-Known Member
Yes it's always good to not spend money you don't have to. I don't buy into all the cannabis specific marketing hype. I just grow them as I would any of the other dozens of plants I grow. I've been growing things for almost fifty years. I've never seen the money grab that I'm seeing targeted towards cannabis growers. So many have bought into the nonsense and seem happy to give their money away. I'm not one of them.

Roots grow just fine without spending money on unnecessary and unneeded products.

I'm with you!
I went through the list and don't use any of them.
 

Kushash

Well-Known Member
Again sorry about my spelling and writing skills I hope you understand. if you dont pls ask and I will clear it up. Thanks guys hopefully we can get some heavy hitters over here on this thread to bring more knowledge to the whole community.
I'm guilty of only skimming this thread.
Is there mention of fresh EWC?
I haven't used those products on your list but I'm sure many of them can be beneficial especially for a soil that needs to be inoculated.
Might want to ask to have your thread moved to the organic section.
Happy Growing!
 

hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
Yes it's always good to not spend money you don't have to. I don't buy into all the cannabis specific marketing hype. I just grow them as I would any of the other dozens of plants I grow. I've been growing things for almost fifty years. I've never seen the money grab that I'm seeing targeted towards cannabis growers. So many have bought into the nonsense and seem happy to give their money away. I'm not one of them.

Roots grow just fine without spending money on unnecessary and unneeded products.

Cannabis targeted? Read about more than cannabis. It’s not bullshit. Some may overhype it but the science is real.

http://smsf-mastergardeners.ucanr.edu/Elkus/The_Effects_of_Mycorrhizal_Fungi_Inoculum_on_Vegetables/
 
Top