LED vs. HID Double Ended Bulb

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
Another childish invalid argument. H&G and Gavita both produce quality products that are used by professionals. It's the results of actual research by actual professional with educations, labs, universities, and many greenhouses working together that we're the 2nd largest exporter after the US, but using very little space. It's a science here, not a belief, not some thing to think is cool because you made it yourself... Why import something if you can get high quality professional horticulture gear locally... H&G for example is not expensive for me. I use less than $20 per run. I also used GHE, Canna, Plagron, several organic products though. It's ridiculous to think there's some sort of nationalistic reasoning... absurd... It's all about the money, if chinese imported crap would suit better it would be the most popular.

I think you need to buy a mirror or turn on your webcam... hypocrite. As usual you resort to ad hominem because you take any critic on your LED religion personally. What else is new...
Whatever , I'm done with this shit^^^.................................btw, the Netherlands isn't even the largest greenhouse crop exporter in Europe; It's Spain. China is #1 overall not the US...............big shocker(sarc.).
 
Last edited:

Squidbilly

Well-Known Member
What ultimately convinced me to try leds was people consistently reporting above 1g/W. I know that's not the best measurement of successful, but in general, I thought it was time to give it a try if I could get over 1g/W! I keep seeing yields of 1.3g/W and being blown away... jealousy quickly sets in at that point!
I would be dissapointed with anything that was too far under 1gram/watt no matter what light I grow with. I can consistently yield at least a # per 600w HPS-closer to 1.5 in hydro. My light only costs about $35 bucks/month to run. At the end of the day, I'm still a HID guy because the inital cost wouldn't pay for itself for a while, at least not for me - and I can always run to my grow shop and get replacement bulbs if one burns out.

I can screw in a lightbulb, but the LEDs seam intimidating to me - what happens if a diode goes out OR the entire system fails? Do companies offer good warranties? I'm not opposed to LEDs, I welcome new technology with open arms. I'm just still to nervous to make the jump.

The other question I have is about penetration(alot of question I have are about penetration, lol) Do the LEDs penetrate the same or better than HIDs?

Great info, disccusion, and thread!

P.S. those extra large heat mats are GREAT in colder climates. With a heat mat your temps can get down close to 60 degrees with no problems. Also, LED or HID - your environment has to be dialed in. If your space get's too hot with an HID, getting a LED isn't the solution - getting your ventilation, heat, or A/C dialed in is. I've NEVER had an issue with heat using air cooled hoods - as long as your intake temps aren't above 75 degrees, you should be exchanging enough air that heat isn't an issue. If it is, then IMVHO you need to adjust your ventilation set-up.
 

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
So, which one is next. Better taste under LED, test results that show certain terpenes only appeared under LED, efficiency decrease of hps bulbs over time, better spectrum?

Well perhaps I'm wrong to expect millions of dollars of research for a billion dollar industry to lead to a far superior grow led than both HPS and the DIY toys in mj forums. I've seen crazier things happen. For example, and this may come as a shock, but those pros and people working at universities... they are also just regular joes too, but since they're pros, they take they "work" a little more seriously.
IMG_3845.jpg IMG_3847.jpg
More childishness typical for the level of LED discussions at rollitup. I (and google....) can show you a dozen reliable reports that say NL is after the US the second largest exporter in agricultural products. And sure, I too can show you a dozen that show a different top ten (which look at fruits too, or at money instead of amount of products or from a different angle). Just the desperate attempt to proof me wrong above shows that again what a childish troll you are - whether it's 2nd, 3rd, 5th or w/e is obviously irrelevant.

There's no debate about what spot it has kid. You bring up an absurd and stupid argument that there's some nationalistic reasoning for preferring HPS over LED, to which, despite knowing your kind (posers...you wouldn't make it a day in my world) I replied with a valid argument, to which you reply again with more stupid childish arguments. If you weren't acting so unprofessional, I'd think you are shill for a LED company, who else makes up stupid arguments in such an emotional manner, who else even thinks like that... well, maybe some delusional stoner who derives self esteem from a LED-like-reach-around...

The point you choose to miss: Relatively (and I know that word means little to LED growers) we compete with the largest countries with a relatively very small piece of land. That's the result of proper science, not a few delusional self-proclaimed experts on an mj grow forum. I said that because you suggest some absurd theory instead of the obvious one (again, why import crap if you can buy professional horticulture gear locally) not to have that derail into a stupid discussions you think you "can" win.

It's such poor responses that make it hard for me to take the LED discussions here seriously. If you simply choose to remain ignorant about easily verifiable valid facts, what else do you bullshit about.

Yes, go play outside while the adults have a proper discussion. You've show too many times you are not a reliable intellectually honest source of information.
You haven't shown any proof or documentation of anything you say is false from us. Saying that is childish with no actual reason/proof of him being wrong for the 3rd time...that is childish bro.
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
The point you choose to miss: Relatively (and I know that word means little to LED growers) we compete with the largest countries with a relatively very small piece of land. That's the result of proper science, not a few delusional self-proclaimed experts on an mj grow forum.
Stupid me ....
Just imagine ,that I've always thought that actually is the result of many things combined ...

But most basically ,that is the result of proper 'propagation' ...

Empires ,kings ,colonies ,spilling plenty of blood,slavery ,stealing of natural resources & genetic material
and many more 'scientific' stuff ....

(...)
For most of the Dutch East Indies history, and that of the VOC before it, Dutch control over their territories was often tenuous, but was expanded over the course of the 19th century. Only in the early 20th century did Dutch dominance extend to what was to become the boundaries of modern-day Indonesia. Although highly populated and agriculturally productive, Java was under Dutch domination for most of the 350 years of the combined VOC and Dutch East Indies era, many areas remained independent for much of this time including Aceh, Lombok, Bali and Borneo.[40]


In 1871, all of the Dutch possessions on the Dutch Gold Coast were sold to Britain.

The Dutch West India company was abolished in 1791, and its colonies in Suriname and the Caribbean brought under the direct rule of the state.[41] The economies of the Dutch colonies in the Caribbean had been based on the smuggling of goods and slaves into Spanish America, but with the end of the slave trade in 1814 and the independence of the new nations of South and Central America from Spain, profitability rapidly declined. Dutch traders moved en masse from the islands to the United States or Latin America, leaving behind small populations with little income and which required subsidies from the Dutch government. The Antilles were combined under one administration with Suriname from 1828 to 1845. Slavery was not abolished in the Dutch Caribbean colonies until 1863, long after those of Britain and France, though by this time only 6,500 slaves remained. In Suriname, slave holders demanded compensation from the Dutch government for freeing slaves, whilst in Sint Maarten, abolition of slavery in the French half in 1848 led slaves in the Dutch half to take their own freedom.[42] In Suriname, after the abolition of slavery, Chinese workers were encouraged to immigrate as indentured laborers,[43] as were Javanese, between 1890 and 1939.[4


(...)
Agriculture

Crops such like coffee, tea, cacao, tobacco and rubber were all introduced by the Dutch. The Dutch were the first to start the spread of the coffee plant in Central and South America, and by the early 19th century Java was the third largest producer in the world.[79] In 1778 the Dutch brought cacao from the Philippines to Indonesia and commenced mass production.[80] Currently Indonesia is the world's second largest producer of natural rubber, a crop that was introduced by the Dutch in the early 20th century.[81] Tobacco was introduced from the Americas and in 1863 the first plantation was established by the Dutch. Today Indonesia is not only the oldest industrial producer of tobacco, but also the second largest consumer of tobacco.[82]



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Empire


Chios Wild Tulips The Wild Tulips of Chios: The spring at Chios is filled with colour and fragrance. In fact, if you pass by Kampochora, you will see some nice flowers growing there. They are the tulips, or lalades, as the residents of Chios call them, from the Turkish world lale. There are about six kinds of tulips on Chios and the important fact is that they are self-grown, without the care of anyone. These flowers impressed the Dutch sailors who arrived on the island in the Medieval times and took some seeds back in their country. That is how Holland started cultivating tulips, which have become since then its trademark. Nowadays, the Municipality of Chios has taken an initiative to protect these rare flowers. In association with the Department of Environment of the Aegean University, a research is being conducted on the possibility of preserving and extending the blooming period of the Tulips. Source: www.greeka.com

http://www.greeka.com/eastern_aegean/chios/tulips.htm



The introduction of the tulip to Europe is usually attributed to Ogier de Busbecq, the ambassador of Ferdinand I, Holy Roman Emperor to the Sultan of Turkey, who sent the first tulip bulbs and seeds to Vienna in 1554 from the Ottoman Empire.[11] Tulip bulbs were soon distributed from Vienna to Augsburg, Antwerp and Amsterdam.[12] Its popularity and cultivation in the United Provinces (now the Netherlands)[13] is generally thought to have started in earnest around 1593 after the Flemish botanist Carolus Clusius had taken up a post at the University of Leiden and established the hortus academicus.[14] He planted his collection of tulip bulbs and found they were able to tolerate the harsher conditions of the Low Countries;[15] shortly thereafter the tulip began to grow in popularity.[16]

The tulip was different from every other flower known to Europe at that time, with a saturated intense petal color that no other plant had. The appearance of the non pareil tulip as a status symbol at this time coincides with the rise of newly independent Holland's trade fortunes. No longer the Spanish Netherlands, its economic resources could now be channeled into commerce and the country embarked on its Golden Age. Amsterdam merchants were at the center of the lucrative East Indies trade, where one voyage could yield profits of 400%.[17] The new merchant class displayed and validated its success, primarily by setting up grand estates surrounded by flower gardens, and the plant that had pride of place was the sensational tulip.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania




......


Brother Sativied,one of our 'own' Alexander the Great started from a place ,a quarter the size of Netherlands...
Only to conquer the rest known world ,back then ...
Oh...And guess what ....
He used the exact same" proper science" you 're talking about ...
His sword... ...

Cheers.
:peace:
 

guod

Well-Known Member
NL is after the US the second largest exporter in agricultural products.

as i see it
USA = 3.71 million square miles - agrar export 120 million US$
NL = 0.16 million square miles - agrar export 80 million US$
 

Positivity

Well-Known Member
That was a much nicer response than I imagined.

Humility. Respect. Compassion. Understanding..etc..
They are important qualities to have alongside science. Otherwise no one wants to hear it
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
NL is after the US the second largest exporter in agricultural products.

as i see it
USA = 3.71 million square miles - agrar export 120 million US$
NL = 0.16 million square miles - agrar export 80 million US$
There you have it...

If the LED fanboys had read some of my others threads instead of being in LED-like-reach-around marathon they'd know I don't make shit up...The LED church likes to slander anyone who isn't a member as being some sort of infidel, but I have nothing against LED, I don't care for their bullshit either though.

Stupid me ....
Just imagine ,that I've always thought that actually is the result of many things combined ...
Again, what's with the childishness. Why do you do so much silly effort to miss the obvious point. And now you feel smart (a word LED growers like to use a lot...) for posting some random information and adding a link? As with your buddy, such ignorance really doesn't make my point any less valid in reality. Again, you can't act or pretend logic... It's that sort of desperate and poor debating that disqualifies you (for me) as being someone I'd even be interested in discussing plant lighting with. It's too hard to resist such cluelessness so let me explain nonetheless: it wouldn't be possible without the greenhouses, some with literally tens of thousands of HPS bulbs (posted some pics in a recent thread) and the highly reputable agricultural university in Wageningen which is constantly performing large scale tests (also with LEDs) in a professional manner. If you'd be interested in the truth about what makes those numbers in the quote above possible, instead of trying to repair your flaccid epeen, that would be very very easy to confirm. It's just like your buddy a poor attempt to derail a discussion that wasn't going that bad at all.
 

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
At the end of the day, I'm still a HID guy because the inital cost wouldn't pay for itself for a while, at least not for me - and I can always run to my grow shop and get replacement bulbs if one burns out. I can screw in a lightbulb, but the LEDs seam intimidating to me - what happens if a diode goes out OR the entire system fails?
I can't speak for the pre-manufactured commercial units, but even with my own DIY cobs, HPS is far cheaper to setup. A lot of people come to the LED section asking about junk "UFO" type products, which are usually shit. Those people are usually directed away from the LED section and toward some type of HID in general. LED growing done right is expensive (prohibitively to some operations). A 600W HPS lamp will make those chinese UFO products look like toys..

Cobs are somewhat simple to replace though. If one of my cobs burned out on my DIY unit, I'd have to remove (2) M3 screws, desolder 2 wires from the cob, solder the wires to the new cob, reapply thermal grease, and put the screws back in. They are supposed to last a lot longer than HPS bulbs, however. HPS efficiency declines over time and needs to be replaced every few grows. The majority of my setup cost was actually the giant aluminum heatsinks and the drivers, which can be reused after these LEDs become obsolete.

The other question I have is about penetration(alot of question I have are about penetration, lol) Do the LEDs penetrate the same or better than HIDs?
It's actually red that doesn't penetrate well. R+B UFOs get a very bad reputation for having terrible penetration, when the reality is that penetration is what isn't absorbed or reflected. Red and blue are absorbed very well, and thus don't penetrate.

Yellow penetrates very well because it's not absorbed as well. Red is food for the top canopy level, and yellow is food for below.
 
Last edited:

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
There you have it...

If the LED fanboys had read some of my others threads instead of being in LED-like-reach-around marathon they'd know I don't make shit up...The LED church likes to slander anyone who isn't a member as being some sort of infidel, but I have nothing against LED, I don't care for their bullshit either though.

Again, what's with the childishness. Why do you do so much silly effort to miss the obvious point. And now you feel smart (a word LED growers like to use a lot...) for posting some random information and adding a link? As with your buddy, such ignorance really doesn't make my point any less valid in reality. Again, you can't act or pretend logic... It's that sort of desperate and poor debating that disqualifies you (for me) as being someone I'd even be interested in discussing plant lighting with. It's too hard to resist such cluelessness so let me explain nonetheless: it wouldn't be possible without the greenhouses, some with literally tens of thousands of HPS bulbs (posted some pics in a recent thread) and the highly reputable agricultural university in Wageningen which is constantly performing large scale tests (also with LEDs) in a professional manner. If you'd be interested in the truth about what makes those numbers in the quote above possible, instead of trying to repair your flaccid epeen, that would be very very easy to confirm. It's just like your buddy a poor attempt to derail a discussion that wasn't going that bad at all.
I know plenty about the Wageningen agricultural university ..
You never know..
I'might've been studying there,once upon a time ...
;-)

Still as much childish is my response ,same childish was the argument .
Politics my friend..Politics ....

It seems so natural to you ,let's say ,(since you're so clever ...) that tiny Netherlands ,has
greater exports regarding food products ,than Spain & Italy all together ...
Two southern countries full of sun,almost all year round ?

http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/world-top-ten-agricultural-exporters-map.html

And you claim ,that this is happening 'cause of "proper science" ?

Hanging sodium bulbs, into vast greenhouses ,burnin' up a astronomical amounts of energy ,
in order to be 2nd in the world of Food agricultural products ?

You call that science ?

I call that economics and politics ,my brother ...

http://www.hollandtrade.com/sector-information/agriculture-and-food/?bstnum=4909

Key aspects and strengths

  • The Dutch agricultural sector benefits from Holland's mild climate( Sure ! Who the F*CK are they kiddin' ? Or it became 'mild' from the trillions of HPS bulbs used ? ), flat and fertile soil and favourable geographical location at the heart of Europe.(? for reduced export transportation costs?..Or is just that the plants like it better there ? )
  • Expertise, infrastructure, the food processing industry, commerce and logistics are all on an extremely high level in the Netherlands.
  • For decades, Dutch agriculture has succeeded in maintaining its lead over international competitors by continually investing in the renewal of agricultural production chains.
  • Farmers and growers are full partners in the agricultural production chain. Their primary task is to produce food, flowers and plants with an optimum price/quality radio using innovative, socially responsible and sustainable methods.
  • Despite tight profit margins, agricultural businesses have invested substantially in environmental protection and implemented improvements in animal welfare


Facts & figures

  • Holland is the world’s 2nd largest exporter of agricultural products, after the USA. Together with the USA and France, Holland is one of the top 3 exporters of vegetables and fruit.
  • The total value of Dutch agricultural exports was 75.4 billion euros in 2012.
  • The Dutch agri-food industry contributes 52.5 billion euros (=> 52.000.000.000 Euros ....of proper science ...)*** of added value to Dutch GDP, and accounting for some 20% of Holland's total export value.
  • The Netherlands is responsible for 22% of the world’s potato exports.
  • The Netherlands has the second highest private R&D investment rate (as % of GDP) in agri-food in Europe.*** ( from 52 billion " income " ...)..
  • Four of the world’s top 25 food and beverage companies are Dutch and 12 have a major production site or R&D facilities in the Netherlands.
  • Two Dutch universities are in the European top 10 with regard to the number of publications on agri-food subjects.
  • The Food Valley region, centred at Wageningen University and Research Center, is one of the most authoritative agri-food and nutrition research centres in Europe.
  • NIZO food research owns the largest food testing pilot plant in Europe and is open to the entire food and ingredient industry.
  • Holland is a global market leader in machinery for, for example, poultry and red meat processing, bakery and cheese production.
  • Dutch agricultural entrepreneurs use efficient and sustainable production systems and processes, resulting in a productivity that is five times higher than the European average.
  • There are some 50,000 farmers, or agricultural entrepreneurs, in the Netherlands, distributed over various crop and animal sectors such as arable (crop) farming, dairy farming and pig farming.
  • The agricultural sector makes up approximately 10 percent of the Dutch economy and provides work and income for more than 660,000 people.
  • More than half of the Netherlands' total land surface of 4.15 million hectares is used as farmland. 56 percent if used for arable and horticultural crops, 42 percent is permanent grassland and 2 percent is used for permanent crops.
  • In 2010, there were more than 10,000 hectares of greenhouses in the Netherlands. Half of this, 5,000 hectares, was used for growing vegetables.
  • Tomatoes, peppers and cucumbers are the biggest greenhouse crops.
  • The most common arable crops are: potatoes (seed, starch and edible), winter corn, summer barley, sugar beets and onions.
  • Of the one hundred most competitive products produced in the Netherlands, about half derive from the agriculture and food sector.
Source: Statistics Netherlands (CBS), Dutch Federation of Agricultural and Horticultural Organisations (LTO), Wageningen University and Research Centre (2012).




" Proper $cience " ?
You meant big fat busyne$$ ,right ?

Cheers
 
Last edited:

tstick

Well-Known Member
I know a guy who is going to be working at one of the BIG commercial grow greenhouses in the area. He said they are planning on setting up 720 one thousand watt HID for their lighting. I asked why they didn't consider using LED. The answer was simple: The head grower for the operation was more familiar with using HID than he was LED. That's that.

Can you imagine the heat coming off a range like that? WOW!
 

tstick

Well-Known Member
I mean…hey, if someone gets good results with HID and someone else gets good results with LED, then what's the problem?

kinda like carburated engines and fuel injected engines, I guess.

:)
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
I know a guy who is going to be working at one of the BIG commercial grow greenhouses in the area. He said they are planning on setting up 720 one thousand watt HID for their lighting. I asked why they didn't consider using LED. The answer was simple: The head grower for the operation was more familiar with using HID than he was LED. That's that.

Can you imagine the heat coming off a range like that? WOW!
720.000 Watt for tomatoes ..To export them to Spain,Italy,Hellas,France and to the rest of the world ....
Because the agriculture of some of those countries (The Portugal Italy Greece Spain ) was seriously affected in so many ways ,by ..guh... "Nothern' agricultural restrictions and laws ,that almost-by now-the only absorption of sunlight in those southern countries , is done by the ..photovoltaic panels ...guh..
By now plenty of the -once upon a time - farming fields produce electricity with photovoltaics/wind generators ...
All around southern europe ...
I wonder ....
Where all that electric energy is being spend ?
Oh ..Is there a 'connection' ?

.....

Can you imagine ?
The eskimos importing ..ice ?
Eh,that's is what's going on ..
More or less ...
Southern sunny countries produce electricity .
Nothern ..eh..guh ....."mild" ... countries ..use that electricity to produce food ...
Which they export to the southern countries amongst others ....
And that 's proper science !

No ,it is not stupidity ..
No ,ain't busyness either ...
It's for the name of science and technology ...
For the good of mankind...
 
Last edited:

lax123

Well-Known Member
I asked someone who "said" (cant prove it) he works in that industry and he told me:
-Initial capital Investment for quality IP65 (means to be able to shower with it) Led lighting is still too high
-dual electrode HPS can use pre existing ballasts, which means nice gain and low Investment costs
-mostly in it his work its now a combination of led and hid

As im noob, I dont know if its true...just for your consideration

*edit, just in my opinion, when I look at phillips horti and their IP65 light bars, with passive cooling...they r very low in output...nothing compared to COBs.
**edit sativied you asked about my temps and grow situation with my upsidedown venting...its all just very low in every aspect...160W. I had the numbers how it changed the temps, but i forgot :-) I like growing and building something more and the science behind it than having a big stash


Sativied, according to your logic, isnt dual hps a downgrade, as they are more effcient -which means less heat? ;-) ( I know, childish)
You are about increased canopy temps relative to environment compared to led. Right?
But doesnt that lead to increased vapour pressure deficit, which means the plants "sweat" more...so at light outs, that means increased humidity, compared to led -does it not?
The increased amount of water in the air leads to more problems. But increased canopy temperatures could mean increased enzyme activity and things like that. Do you have any science on that?

What I know from real life -as I have seen in the company I work for:
politcs> reasoning> all

Sorry for all the edits.
please stay relaxed and goal oriented in those discussions, as I love to read them :-)
 
Last edited:

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
NL is after the US the second largest exporter in agricultural products.

as i see it
USA = 3.71 million square miles - agrar export 120 million US$
NL = 0.16 million square miles - agrar export 80 million US$
Overall products yes......we were talking about a specific sector .......either way, damn you guod and Google ;-).....lol

I agree, relevant pics would be nice!......Anyone want to see my grow/shoe closet? Ha
 
Last edited:

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
A bed time story for proper use of science ...

Once upon a time they were two countries.
Country N ,is cold ,most of the year the sky is grey ,raining all the time ...You got the picture .
Country S ,is warm ,sunny weather almost 365/year ,mild winters .....

Country S has small agriculture ,
but it is enough to feed it's inhabitats and do a bit of exporting to Country N.
Country S has a rich / vast range of edible vegetables & fruits ,
growing naturally.

Country N inhabitats ,are a bit hungry ,
cause their country does not produce much cause of climate .
So they are/become mostly sailors and traders ,than farmers ....

Years & years passed from then ....

Now ,both countries along with others have formed a union ...
How nice is that !
Oh..And electricity is discovered by now ,too...

Country N ,takes plants and genetic material from country S and study them ...
They use proper science and they manage to refine and 'mix' ,with othes,to 'evolve' ...
Now country N can grow all these new plants into greenhouses with lamps!
Who cares about the weather and the grey skies ?

Union votes for new agricultural laws ...
All the farmers of the union have to use 'certified' seeds ...
Or else they can not sell their final veggie-fruity products ...

Country N by now ,is the main supplier of 99% of the 'certified' seeds ..
Farmers from country N can buy easily the seeds,while the fart-mers from country S can't .
Too expensive for them.Plus all the rest costs of irrigation,fertilising,etc ...
The price of the final product is way more expensive that the same product coming from country N.
So farmer from Country S ,says yes ,to the proposal of busynessman (of country N ) ,
to turn his field into a 'photovoltaic park" .
No more farming for ex-farmer S.
He produces electricity for the farmer N ,whicn now feeds him too ....
If ex-farmer S has money to buy food from farmer N ,of course ...
Or if he sells the electricity really cheap...

Country N has dominated the agriculture world of the whole union.
Of course by utilising proper science ...
But that does not necessarily means properly utilising science ,also....

And they kept earning a lot of money..
while we kept starving to death,my child...
 

PurpleBuz

Well-Known Member
A bed time story for proper use of science ...
So farmer from Country S ,says yes ,to the proposal of busynessman (of country N ) ,
to turn his field into a 'photovoltaic park" .
No more farming for ex-farmer S.
He produces electricity for the farmer N ,whicn now feeds him too ....
If ex-farmer S has money to buy food from farmer N ,of course ...
Or if he sells the electricity really cheap...

Country N has dominated the agriculture world of the whole union.
Of course by utilising proper science ...
But that does not necessarily means properly utilising science ,also....

And they kept earning a lot of money..
while we kept starving to death,my child...
Good story, a very good explanation for one of the reasons why the european economy is still in recession.
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Good story, a very good explanation for one of the reasons why the european economy is still in recession.
You know what I can not understand really ?
  • The Dutch agri-food industry contributes 52.5 billion eurosof added value to Dutch GDP, and accounting for some 20% of Holland's total export value.
  • The Netherlands has the second highest private R&D investment rate (as % of GDP) in agri-food in Europe.

1% if was the investment rate for R&D ,just from one year's exports ,that would 'be
520.000.000 Euros ....

Enough to research ,design and make a pretty decent LED grow light line ,
for massive domestic greenhouse use ...

FGS!
Most of us use less than 1000 Euros / $ budget , to do so ...
 

lax123

Well-Known Member
Can you confirm that in agri greenhouse led lights have to be ip65 rated, Jet of waterstream resitant?
That 50W design light for about 2000$ with passive cooling guod posted came to my mind ;-)
I know it was a "design" thingy...but the heatsinksystem needed there seemed large
 
Top