Led Users Unite!

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
Forget my deleted post, it was before you write this above.

Yeah, there is always a difference between the measured V/A/W on the DC side and the measurings on the AC side. This is called the driver loss. When you convert AC to DC there is a certain loss, how much you can see in the datasheet under driver effiency. A 96% eff. driver causes 4% loss(mainly heat, you can feel that when your driver get's warm) Most chinese drivers are between 80 and 90% in the best case. Powerfactor is another thing worth to mention. The higher the the PF the better, meanwells are usually 0.92-0.98 depending on input voltage.
 
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Mary's Confidant

Well-Known Member
I have some 3070 BBs @ 3500k, 14 to be exact, still in their package. I'm going to use them to supplement my LEC. I don't need all 14 wired up, I could use 2-4 for a veg room and the others to supplement in flower.

Any suggestions on drivers? Since these aren't as efficient as the new gen of COBs, I should probably be running them at 1050mA?

These will be going in a 5x5 tent. The 315w LEC will be hung directly in the middle. I'm guessing I should layout my COBs to box in the LEC so I have light hitting the full footprint of my tent?

This purely a personal grow so I'm not looking to max everything out. Thanks in advance!
 

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
I would make a large squared alu frame on which to mount the heatsinks. Big enough to evenly illuminate a 5x 5 'surface. So at least 40"/100cm x 40"/100cm! This leaves enough space in the middle and you can continue to use the LEC.
You cound also make two bars along the sides.
 

Mary's Confidant

Well-Known Member
Thanks Random,

I'm uncertain if I should be running them 1400 mA or 1050mA. I know higher efficiency will be gained by using 1050 but will I be running them too soft to keep the square frame elevated near the same height as the LEC?

And I've been away for a while, any suggestion on drivers? I'll eventually be moving to Quantum boards but I have this equipment now and I want to make use of it.
 

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
Thanks Random,

I'm uncertain if I should be running them 1400 mA or 1050mA. I know higher efficiency will be gained by using 1050 but will I be running them too soft to keep the square frame elevated near the same height as the LEC?

And I've been away for a while, any suggestion on drivers? I'll eventually be moving to Quantum boards but I have this equipment now and I want to make use of it.

Driver depends on how many COB's do you want to use? With 10 COB's and 2 drivers you could hang 5 each on two HLG-185HC1050B and have about 400w net of the LEDs alone(440w at the wall). Together with the LEC that would be more than 700w and should be enough for a 5x 5 '. And yes, you can use them at the same height. COB's could be used closer but you do not want them to create shadows below the LEC. 4" lower than the LEC maybe, deeper and they would probably cause shadows. But I don't know the exact beamangle of the LEC reflector.

It would be possible to dimm both drivers with one single 50k potentiometer or if you want via two 100k poti's like two seperate channels. A HLG-320H-1050B should be enough for 8 COB's but with a fuckin' danger dc voltage. You can wire in parallel with Meanwell CV/CC HLG driver. HLG-185H-36B and HLG-320H-36B could be used for parallel wiring with no potential lethal voltage. Positive side effect, it is more fail safe, if one COB fails, the others will continue to run and share the current of the dead COB between the remaining COB's. Cool them passive and you can rule out a second source of errors. Fans like/tend to break over time! Passive heatsinks work for ever!
I recommend one with round pin fins, these pins when warm cause a slight vortex that sucks the air up through the fins and thus optimizes the convection. For 1050mA you only need 120mm Ø heatsinks (see cobkits.com).
 

Mary's Confidant

Well-Known Member
Driver depends on how many COB's do you want to use? With 10 COB's and 2 drivers you could hang 5 each on two HLG-185HC1050B and have about 400w net of the LEDs alone(440w at the wall). Together with the LEC that would be more than 700w and should be enough for a 5x 5 '. And yes, you can use them at the same height. COB's could be used closer but you do not want them to create shadows below the LEC. 4" lower than the LEC maybe, deeper and they would probably cause shadows. But I don't know the exact beamangle of the LEC reflector.

It would be possible to dimm both drivers with one single 50k potentiometer or if you want via two 100k poti's like two seperate channels. A HLG-320H-1050B should be enough for 8 COB's but with a fuckin' danger dc voltage. You can wire in parallel with Meanwell CV/CC HLG driver. HLG-185H-36B and HLG-320H-36B could be used for parallel wiring with no potential lethal voltage. Positive side effect, it is more fail safe, if one COB fails, the others will continue to run and share the current of the dead COB between the remaining COB's. Cool them passive and you can rule out a second source of errors. Fans like/tend to break over time! Passive heatsinks work for ever!
I recommend one with round pin fins, these pins when warm cause a slight vortex that sucks the air up through the fins and thus optimizes the convection. For 1050mA you only need 120mm Ø heatsinks (see cobkits.com).
Perfect, that's exactly what I was lookign for. I'll pull the trigger today, I'm not looking for the greatest set-up ever, just a safe, effective growlight that'll allow me to get my feet wet. Are there any dangers to runaway, etc with the parallel wiring?

I'm either doing 2 - HLG-185HC1050B or 2 - HLG-185H-36B or 1 - HLG-320H-36B, I'll passively cool but I'll have a separate tent fan set-up to blow over the entire device for the duration of 'lights on'. I'll also be employing a 6 in scrubber/fan combo, so hot air should be expelled and the lights should stay cool. I don't need to run more than 8-10 in this tent. I'm not trying to spike my electric usage and I'm not a cash cropper. This is for personal use only.

If it were you, which driver would you choose given my criteria?

Thanks Random, you seem to be amongst the most knowledgeable posters on here. The technology has continued to evolve at a break neck speed, with all the new COBs, quantum boards, etc. Hopefully this will be the first of many builds for me.
 

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
I know about LED, what is LEC?
Light Emitting Ceramic....also called CMH sometimes.

Try putting the word light in your search...
Or even clicking on the "People also asked...what is LEC light? " in your picture of the google search you did.
Or LEC grow...grow light...cannabis...growing...light...lights... LED vs LEC...literally anything to further specify your search
 

jaggwaa

Well-Known Member
Light Emitting Ceramic....also called CMH sometimes.

Try putting the word light in your search...
Or even clicking on the "People also asked...what is LEC light? " in your picture of the google search you did.
Or LEC grow...grow light...cannabis...growing...light...lights... LED vs LEC...literally anything to further specify your search
Thank You:hug:
 

The Dawg

Well-Known Member
Light Emitting Ceramic....also called CMH sometimes.

Try putting the word light in your search...
Or even clicking on the "People also asked...what is LEC light? " in your picture of the google search you did.
Or LEC grow...grow light...cannabis...growing...light...lights... LED vs LEC...literally anything to further specify your search

Light Emitting Ceramic (LEC) grow light – “LEC” is a brand name (trademark) for a model of grow light that uses ceramic metal halide technology. However, the term “LEC” is starting to become interchangeable with the term Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH) since they're both referring to the same technology.
 

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
Light Emitting Ceramic (LEC) grow light – “LEC” is a brand name (trademark) for a model of grow light that uses ceramic metal halide technology. However, the term “LEC” is starting to become interchangeable with the term Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH) since they're both referring to the same technology.
Interesting, always speculated it was a mogul base(CMH) vs pin socket(LEC)...now I know.

EDIT...CDM is the other name for it...damn google knows a lot of shit.
 
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Randomblame

Well-Known Member
Perfect, that's exactly what I was lookign for. I'll pull the trigger today, I'm not looking for the greatest set-up ever, just a safe, effective growlight that'll allow me to get my feet wet. Are there any dangers to runaway, etc with the parallel wiring?

I'm either doing 2 - HLG-185HC1050B or 2 - HLG-185H-36B or 1 - HLG-320H-36B, I'll passively cool but I'll have a separate tent fan set-up to blow over the entire device for the duration of 'lights on'. I'll also be employing a 6 in scrubber/fan combo, so hot air should be expelled and the lights should stay cool. I don't need to run more than 8-10 in this tent. I'm not trying to spike my electric usage and I'm not a cash cropper. This is for personal use only.

If it were you, which driver would you choose given my criteria?

Thanks Random, you seem to be amongst the most knowledgeable posters on here. The technology has continued to evolve at a break neck speed, with all the new COBs, quantum boards, etc. Hopefully this will be the first of many builds for me.
Thanks for the flowers, mate!
I would take two HLG-185H-36B because it more fail safe and there is no potentially deathly dc voltage. It also allows you to switch them on seperately which could be useful in veg.
 

pollen205

Well-Known Member
I am a compleate new to growing and buy the cob fixture based on the result of forums and umols that this light give.
So I buy 4 clu048-1212 3500k 80cri gen 6 mounted on passive 133mm heatsink rated up to 70watt, full agro spectrum.
with meanwell HLG 185H-C1400A
So i dont know much about difrance between CREE,CITIZEN,VERO
But just want to know did I buy solid light compare to other cobs at the market...or is there any thing better?

And can I run it at max 240 w dim ?
 

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
I am a compleate new to growing and buy the cob fixture based on the result of forums and umols that this light give.
So I buy 4 clu048-1212 3500k 80cri gen 6 mounted on passive 133mm heatsink rated up to 70watt, full agro spectrum.
with meanwell HLG 185H-C1400A
So i dont know much about difrance between CREE,CITIZEN,VERO
But just want to know did I buy solid light compare to other cobs at the market...or is there any thing better?

And can I run it at max 240 w dim ?

Citizen COB's are as good as Cree, BLX or Luminous..
The 1212 is not the biggest, powerfulst one but it will grow you some bad ass weed, mate!
You can also use an HLG-240H-C1750 for 250w max., no problem!
But I would not drive the COB's at 65w because you'll probably need +20" distance and they run ~48% effiency.

I would rather take 8 or 10 Citi1212's and an HLG-185H-C700B(8 COB's) or an HLG-240H-C700 for 10 Citi1212's.
Much better spread and you can use the light at half the distance.
Side effect, yoiu get much better effiency when running the COB's at only 700mA(min. +5% or ~55%), you can take smaller heatsinks(only 25w per COB) and you'll get better yields(5% more light = 5% more yield, each time - again and again!)

You could use two big 40x 50x 40x 3mm alu c-channels(a x b x c x d) instead of expensive pin fin heatsinks. A 1100mm long c-channel would be enough for 4 or 5 COB's driven low, especially when there is anyway some air movement inside the tent.
C-channel looks like this and is available online, from e3ay or from the next metal store or even Walmart should have them.
Screenshot_20180630-082220.png

You save a lot because you do not need the fin pin heatsinks and can invest the money in more COB's to make a better, more efficient light. If you already have an 1,4A driver, that's not a problem, simply make two strings of 4 or 5 COB's in series and connect them in parallel to the driver. The current will be splitted between the two strings.

So instead to invest in expensive heatsinks, I would rather invest in more COB's and run them low.
You can also increase the cooling capabillity of the c-channels when you use a 2nd smaller c-channel and stick in between the two fins to increase the surface area of the bigger channels. Would look like this:

DIY heatsinks, each for 4x V18c_CRI90 @525mA, 2x 70w.png

My heatsinks above are made from a bigger channel (30x 40x 30x 2mm) and a smaller one (25x 20x 25x 2mm) glued together using cheap doublesided thermal tape. Each 1150mm "heatsink" has 4 COB's(BLX V18's, 3000°k/CRI93) running at 525mA(~70w total) and the heatsink temps stabilize at 42-46°C depending on ambient temps(26-30°C).

Two of them has cost me less than 20 bucks because I found the channels for cheap at the scrap yard. Simply call the next one and ask them for cheap aluminum channels, you can get it based on kilo price.

You can also make something like this:
Selfmade LED Heatsink, 600x350mm, used passive with 120w, T.c stays below 50°C.jpg

It's a 600x 350x 2mm aluminum sheet with 8 added c-channels on the backside to increase the cooling surface. I'm using it with up to 150w strips and COB's currently. With the full 150w the temps stabilize at around 55-60°C.

You can calculate with around 50-55cm² surface area per 1 LED watt (or 100-110cm² per heatwatt if you know the COB effiency), for 100w you need ~5000-5500cm² cooling surface for passive cooling. If it's a sheet, a c-channel or an extruded heatsink really doesn't matter in the end, as long as it's thick enough to spread the heat, it will work.

My tablet has a 10w SoC and use only a thin copper foil to spread the heat acoss the backside.
 
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samlant

Member
Okay, boyz 'n gals! It's time to present my current light cause it's ready to use!
It consists of 20x 2ft. F-Series strips/3000°K/CRI80 in 10s2p to one HLG-240H-C1050B
First, awesome build there! I love the ingenuity that you employed here with the combination of series and parallel wiring. Unfortunately, I'm sure I've got the basic calculations done on how to calculate it, but I can't seem to make sense how this works for you.
I'm trying to figure out how 10s2p doesn't exceed 240 watts---lol I'm so mystified right now. When you say 10s2p, that means you have 10 2-foot strips (564b's or 562b's?) wired in series, and there are two sets of those wired up in parallel, is that correct? How can you get away with just one of those HLG-240 drivers? Teach me oh master, because I wanna wire 6 of those 2-foot strings (564b's) without having to use a beefy 480-watt driver (hlg-480) or 2 hlg-240's (read: cost-savings) if it's possible. Also, I think I wanna do constant current due to (1) the potential minor manufacturing discrepencies in led voltages (when in cv mode, thus causing differing currents, right?) and (2) prevent current-loss/dimming and (3) having an led take on a higher current if one blows (in cv mode). Not worried about thermal runaway since these will be ran softly (250watts about, 2x4 grow space) I've loved what you've written :)
 
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Randomblame

Well-Known Member
I'm using 20 single row 2ft strips and a HLG-240H-C1050B which has 238v and 1050mA? I thought one could see this on the pics...?!(the strips, of course)
10 single row 2footers in series would need 230v at 1120mA(23v per strip from datasheet), but I have two strings and the current will be splitted, so it's probably 225v at 525mA for each string.
Each strip get's ~22,5v and 525mA and run with ~11,8w. That's <60mA per diode means 2,73μmol/J according to Samsung(LM561c is 2,72μmol/J at 65mA), probably +2,5μmol/J or so on system level.

The driver current is probably a bit higher like with other Meanwells too, so maybe even 1100mA or 550mA per string at driver maximum...?!
At 1050mA and 225v that's 236,25w, with open dimming circuit(up to 108%) probably ~250w net and 265w at the wall.
Exactly I can not say that because I have a second driver on the same line.

You could literally do exact the same with 10 double row 2footers, a 5s2p circuit design and the same driver. Would be 5x 45v = 225v, same like with 10 single row strips. Only difference is less wiring effort.
I should have taken SR 4footers to keep it easier but I wanted the +25pcs. discount so I finally decided to use 2footers.
 

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
You can also use the HLG-240H-48A or B and wire all the strips in parallel. I had a long conversation with a service employee about HLG and ELG series and if you operate LED's directly, both drivers are running in CC mode.

The above mentioned CV/CC drivers only work in constant voltage mode if you use it to drive secondary dc to dc drivers like Meanwell's LDD's. If you connect LED's, COB's or strips directly to them, they always run with constant current mode.

This is the corresponding part in the datasheet:
Screenshot_20180630-173014.png


This means if you plan to use them as direct driver for your strips or COB's you can use the constant current region from datasheet to find a siutable one. But do not forget, you only get the maximum out of the driver is you use it's full potential. A HLG-xxxH-48A would work with a few 36v COB's in parallel because the 36v are within it's 24-48v CC region but you'll get only ~¾ of it's potential maximum output.
 

KonopCh

Well-Known Member
I'm using 20 single row 2ft strips and a HLG-240H-C1050B which has 238v and 1050mA? I thought one could see this on the pics...?!(the strips, of course)
10 single row 2footers in series would need 230v at 1120mA(23v per strip from datasheet), but I have two strings and the current will be splitted, so it's probably 225v at 525mA for each string.
Each strip get's ~22,5v and 525mA and run with ~11,8w. That's <60mA per diode means 2,73μmol/J according to Samsung(LM561c is 2,72μmol/J at 65mA), probably +2,5μmol/J or so on system level.

The driver current is probably a bit higher like with other Meanwells too, so maybe even 1100mA or 550mA per string at driver maximum...?!
At 1050mA and 225v that's 236,25w, with open dimming circuit(up to 108%) probably ~250w net and 265w at the wall.
Exactly I can not say that because I have a second driver on the same line.

You could literally do exact the same with 10 double row 2footers, a 5s2p circuit design and the same driver. Would be 5x 45v = 225v, same like with 10 single row strips. Only difference is less wiring effort.
I should have taken SR 4footers to keep it easier but I wanted the +25pcs. discount so I finally decided to use 2footers.
My HLG-240-C1050A goes to 293 wall watts.
 
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