Leaves turning light green/yellow from middle of canopy (pics)

6th week of flowering.

For the past couple weeks the middle of my canopy has been slowly getting lighter and lighter and a few leaves are a light hint of yellowish green now. It's spreading outward from the middle. Underneath canopy is fine. I decided to give it a week or so to see if it will adjust but it's only gotten worse. The outer edges of the canopy where there is less light stayed green for longer but thy are also now starting to get light green.

My assumptions are either it wants more food, it wants more nitrogen, or its just yellowing because it's near the end of its life..?

It's obviously starting to yellow from the middle because that's where the most intensity of the light is and probably demands for most nutrients from those leaves.

I don't think I have lockout as I always runoff 20% and I've flushed her twice already.

Setup:

3 gal fabric pots in 100% coco. 1k watts per table (4000 watts). Was feeding dyna gro protekt, bloom, foliage, and calmag at 800ppm (.5). I pulled calmag out to give more room for bloom and foliage. No differences seen. Considering feeding only foliage and protekt at 800ppm to provide more nitrogen.

Any help is appreciated.

(Pics are through HPS glasses during lights on)

Too much P, too early! P tox!!!

Next run, don't change over to "bloom" foods till week 3 after the lighting time flip. At week 3 mix veg and bloom 50/50 and week 4 go all bloom.

In reality, Dyna foliage pro is all you really need - start to finish!

You could add a booster like Hesi's or IONIC's at like week 6 till harvest. Try that and see next run, or maybe add the Dyna bloom at week 6 to the foliage and see what that does for you....
Simple way to experiment with high P/K boosting at more proper timing.

Dr. Who said:

Too much P, too early! P tox!!!

Next run, don't change over to "bloom" foods till week 3 after the lighting time flip. At week 3 mix veg and bloom 50/50 and week 4 go all bloom.

In reality, Dyna foliage pro is all you really need - start to finish!

You could add a booster like Hesi's or IONIC's at like week 6 till harvest. Try that and see next run, or maybe add the Dyna bloom at week 6 to the foliage and see what that does for you....
Simple way to experiment with high P/K boosting at more proper timing.

Click to expand...

So should I pull bloom and just do foliage and protekt? Will complete week 6 and start week 7 on Wednesday. Plants did great for the first 4-5 weeks of flower using bloom though, symptoms are only about a week or 2. Bloom is supposed to be a complete nutrient by itself is it not? I did increase the ratio of bloom to foliage as the weeks progressed in an attempt to transition to more P and K during mid to late flower respectively, and less N.

hot cheetos said:

So should I pull bloom and just do foliage and protekt? Will complete week 6 and start week 7 on Wednesday. Plants did great for the first 4-5 weeks of flower using bloom though, symptoms are only about a week or 2. Bloom is supposed to be a complete nutrient by itself is it not? I did increase the ratio of bloom to foliage as the weeks progressed in an attempt to transition to more P and K during mid to late flower respectively, and less N.

Click to expand...

Yes on the pull the bloom - It's going to continue to progress. best to not give it more to make it do it faster.

Sadly MJ needs N in bloom more then it's given by many nutrient makers in "bloom" foods. They also tend to raise the P/K to damaging levels faster then it should. They feed the novice growers feeling that "more is better".....

For the first 2 weeks of plant growth after the time flip to bloom. The plant STILL requires the same N it got in "veg"! At week 4 the need does go down a little and more so at week 6. Many nutrient makers will "hide" higher N values in additives to use with overly high PK bloom foods to slow the yellow out that too much P WILL give the plant.

I like the idea of splitting the veg and bloom at week 3. It does the more P thing and does it gradually so it doesn't overpower the plant with it.

MJ does not "need" increased P/K to bloom! It does help with quality and yield, when done right and so the plant can actually use it and not over feed it!

Thank you Doc.

Dr. Who said:

Yes on the pull the bloom - It's going to continue to progress. best to not give it more to make it do it faster.

Sadly MJ needs N in bloom more then it's given by many nutrient makers in "bloom" foods. They also tend to raise the P/K to damaging levels faster then it should. They feed the novice growers feeling that "more is better".....

For the first 2 weeks of plant growth after the time flip to bloom. The plant STILL requires the same N it got in "veg"! At week 4 the need does go down a little and more so at week 6. Many nutrient makers will "hide" higher N values in additives to use with overly high PK bloom foods to slow the yellow out that too much P WILL give the plant.

I like the idea of splitting the veg and bloom at week 3. It does the more P thing and does it gradually so it doesn't overpower the plant with it.

MJ does not "need" increased P/K to bloom! It does help with quality and yield, when done right and so the plant can actually use it and not over feed it!

Click to expand...

Been feeding just protekt and foliage pro for the last week at around 750-800ppm and haven't seen any decrease in leaves turning yellow. Its continued to progress and I've got much more yellow leaves now.

I'm going to start week 8 of flowering in 3 days. Is it maybe just the plants reaching the end of their life and its doing the "late flower yellowing of the leaves" thing ?

hot cheetos said:

Been feeding just protekt and foliage pro for the last week at around 750-800ppm and haven't seen any decrease in leaves turning yellow. Its continued to progress and I've got much more yellow leaves now.

I'm going to start week 8 of flowering in 3 days. Is it maybe just the plants reaching the end of their life and its doing the "late flower yellowing of the leaves" thing ?

Click to expand...

The damage began with the early use of high P products. The damage can not be reversed and no leaves will show any type of "repair" down the road. While there is some limited die off and yellowing near the end. it's NOTHING like what your getting.

With those things said - Don't "worry" about it! It will finish out! Next time, simply don't start high P/K "bloom" foods till after the stretch.....Like I told you before - follow that feeding and be much happier at the end!

Dr. Who said:

The damage began with the early use of high P products. The damage can not be reversed and no leaves will show any type of "repair" down the road. While there is some limited die off and yellowing near the end. it's NOTHING like what your getting.

With those things said - Don't "worry" about it! It will finish out! Next time, simply don't start high P/K "bloom" foods till after the stretch.....Like I told you before - follow that feeding and be much happier at the end!

Click to expand...

Only worried because it happens to be the last 2 weeks before harvest and this is supposed to be the time that they really swell. Would suck if this adversely effects the swelling and final yield.

hot cheetos said:

Only worried because it happens to be the last 2 weeks before harvest and this is supposed to be the time that they really swell. Would suck if this adversely effects the swelling and final yield.

Click to expand...

Shouldn't hurt "too" much - shoot us a new pic...
You get what you get this time.....That's life!
Look with excitement to the next run, and proper PK application.....

My bottle is always half full.
Every mistake is a learning experience.
I always looked beyond to the next run when it would be better.
At some point you say to yourself. "I wonder If I can do it as good another way?" Then you start that and another learning cure begins. Except that you have some knowledge about the plant and the use of nutrients....That road is shorter...and on and on you go!

Now wipe the red dust from your fingers and start planing for the next run!

Happy learning curve cheeto's, it's all good!

I always have some problems yellowing 3-4 weeks into flower. What I started doing was halfing the amount of bloom food, then putting in about a quarter of the missing amount in veg food at 3-4 weeks. (reducing the overall food but still giving nitrogen)

Dr. Who said:

Shouldn't hurt "too" much - shoot us a new pic...
You get what you get this time.....That's life!
Look with excitement to the next run, and proper PK application.....

My bottle is always half full.
Every mistake is a learning experience.
I always looked beyond to the next run when it would be better.
At some point you say to yourself. "I wonder If I can do it as good another way?" Then you start that and another learning cure begins. Except that you have some knowledge about the plant and the use of nutrients....That road is shorter...and on and on you go!

Now wipe the red dust from your fingers and start planing for the next run!

Happy learning curve cheeto's, it's all good!

Click to expand...

Well I think I discovered what the plants were suffering from. Root aphids. I don't know how long I've had them but probably around when symptoms started showing up. Around 5-6 week of flower maybe.

Now here's my couple questions. I'm 8 weeks into flower and got 1 week of flush left til havrvest. Should I try to kill them now or there's no point and I should just finish my flush and harvest?

Also, are buds supposed to stay wet and sticky all the way until harvest? Some of my buds have turned dry to the touch whereas they used to be really moist and sticky to the touch. I'm not sure if this is normal or if it's the root aphids causing this. Do root aphids actually suck the life and moisture out of the buds?

@hot cheetos
I would harvest those now!
Dry buds are dead buds.
That would not be root aphids that did that.....
Flushing is useless ! You might have overdone it on the flush...
How did you do that?

Dr. Who said:

@hot cheetos
I would harvest those now!
Dry buds are dead buds.
That would not be root aphids that did that.....
Flushing is useless ! You might have overdone it on the flush...
How did you do that?

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply doc. Root aphids dont cause that? Thats great news. I haven't started flushing yet. Its going to start tonight. Why are the buds dead if the plant is alive? What could possibly cause my buds to die??? Should i forget the flush and just harvest? Shit...

@hot cheetos

I have never seen a root aphid infestation do that! I've seen enough to have seen a real bad one that went long...I wish I could see your roots. And the bugs...

How about a pic of the plants as they are now. Effected area and the whole plant, if you can please.

Dr. Who said:

@hot cheetos

I have never seen a root aphid infestation do that! I've seen enough to have seen a real bad one that went long...I wish I could see your roots. And the bugs...

How about a pic of the plants as they are now. Effected area and the whole plant, if you can please.

Click to expand...

Its lights off now I don't know if i should disturb them, lights come on in 4 hours. But I'm a little panicking now. I just went in there with a green headlamp to check them out. Would green light'ed pics suffice? I've never squeezed any of the buds because i baby them kind of. I dont want to ruin a single trichome lol. The dry bud that im talking about is like..if you lightly run your finger on it it feels dry. I just went in and squeezed that one because fuck it, its more important to figure out if theyre dying. When i squeeze them the very surface of it is a little bit crusty and feels kind of... spikey...? but when i squeeze it its soft-ish. It feels soft on the inside but still dense, but dry on the outside. I squeezed a few other buds and they felt less crusty than that particular one but still a little dry if you run your finger on it lightly. That particular one is the one that kind of protrudes beyond the netting and my clothes run across it lightly sometimes when I pass by.

But like 2-3 weeks ago they were very soft, but not fluffly by any means. Like they felt wet almost. If i ran my finger on it my finger would become sticky immediately. Imagine 3 week flowers..how soft and damp they are, thats how they were.

I DONT KNOW MAN..fuck. I feel so helpless and lost being a first timer. Its frustrating to not know if things are supposed to be the way they are!

Help me

This is a pic I took on Sunday. I took it for the yellow dying leaves but you can see the colas. This is the progression of yellowing leaves from my OP pics to now. But you can see that the buds don't appear to be dying because the sugar leaves are still alive. Though they are turning lighter green. I don't know though. I'll take one of the particular dry cola before lights on so you can see what that one looks like.

Well after closer inspection I think I might have springtails. But i think i saw more than 1 type of bug i still have to do more digging. So hard to find any bugs in there and when I do it's even harder to get them out so I can put them under a microscope. They are insanely small. Here are some pics of the drier cola and the one bug I managed to sort of get a pic of lol. I couldn't get it to stop moving so I decided to lightly squish it...turned out to be not so light. They are really small. Thats 60x microscope.

Notice the close up of the cola. The calyxs are spikey and kinda dry.

I also have salt build up on the surface of the coco. That is not perlite, I have 100% coco. I don't know what this means or if it's normal. It wasn't like that before I installed drippers, only after.

Perhaps this may help

More than once I’ve heard a grower say to me “I don’t have pests… Well, just some fungus gnats.” More than once I was culling aphid ridden plants just weeks later. If you cycle plants quickly and apply lots of preventative treatments for pests, you may just think you’ve got some very persistent fungus gnats.

The easiest way to tell them apart is body shape. Fungus gnats have thin abdomens, long legs, and wings about the length of their body, like a small mosquito. Aphids are more squat, round, and stubby-legged. In addition, they have distinguishable “tail pipes” extending off their back-end. A loupe or microscope can be very helpful since both pests are so tiny.

Fungus gnats also behave differently, they seem to fly slowly and aimlessly. Winged root aphids fly higher and farther, seem more “alert” overall and are better at avoiding being squished. While fungus gnats will fly all over the place, root aphids will fly straight towards your lights. If you are in veg, check above the bulbs in your T5s for root aphid bodies.

hot cheetos said:

This is a pic I took on Sunday. I took it for the yellow dying leaves but you can see the colas. This is the progression of yellowing leaves from my OP pics to now. But you can see that the buds don't appear to be dying because the sugar leaves are still alive. Though they are turning lighter green. I don't know though. I'll take one of the particular dry cola before lights on so you can see what that one looks like.

Click to expand...

That looks like you over did the P.
NO starting bloom foods till the 3rd week after the light change to 12/12.

yell me EXACTLY what you feed with for ALL of the grow!
Start with veg and include EVERYTHING you added!
Now do the same for bloom!

I'll bet you had a feeding problem! Could be coupled with the Root Aphid thing too.

SO then, just how did you decide it WAS Root Aphids?

I'm with ya bro! I'll help the best I can!

While we're talking about fade is there a natural tendency to fade more in sunlight than artificial, no matter what I do I get way more fade outdoors even when feeding a veg from start to finish, indoors I typically get almost none. Sorry if this is high jacking but real curious, took me years to stop the bloom till very near the end lol.