Leaf Spotting 4.5 Weeks Into Flowering

Thanks Crash I know what you mean completely about the vantage point. Just to clarify, I'm not using coco, I'm using FFOF 70% Perlite 30%. After the last grow where I ran into PH meter calibration issues.... Well I won't ever let that happen again lol. I use two meters and calibrate them once every week. I hit them again with 800 ppm water including Jack's, Cal-Mag and Grow Big. PH to 6.2, both same as before. I ran about 220 oz of water into them and about 75-80% of the water in ran off since they are heavily saturated. I was pleased about the amount of runoff I got from them. I have a feeling I will be watering with some excess runoff for awhile until I get comfortable with my meter, just for some extra insurance.

PPP1 ran off at 1040ppm (-0030ppm from previous) and 6.2 PH.
PPP2 ran off at 0986ppm (-0040ppm from previous) and 6.3 PH.

Should the fact that they are still declining even with an 800ppm solution ease my conscience? At this rate it seems as if another feeding at 800ppm will result in cracking under 1000ppm for good. This is the first time for PPP2 to meter under 1000 since transplant.

HOLY SHIT THAT'S A LOT OF P'S IN ONE POST! lol The good news, bud development is still moving forward and 2 out of my 4 flowering plants are very healthy for the time being. Hopefully this time next week my buds have doubled in size and all will be good.

I'm thinking 800ppm might be a bit much in the ffof. I dunno. Maybe 700 might be a better number to aim for and you're going to have good run off values.

I'm sorry about the coco advice. I got totally backwards on you.

Definitely, clean water is a good thing for you. I don't know about flushing though. Probably just stay on clean water for a while until the run off balances out.

Organics is a big subject to try and broach here, but let's just say not 100% of my advice is going to apply to you. Still, get the ppm down, for sure, but I am going to need some time to "review the case" before moving forward. I hope to help more in the future dude.

Its cool, I know its easy to lose track when you're trying to help a lot of people and deal with your own problems. I don't feel like it will make much difference at this point. I'm think the 2 sick plants have depleted the soil of much of the organic nutrients to this point. Same solutions going into 2 plants 25 days in as the 2 plants 15 days in. The 2 younger plants are nearly perfect in health. My feedings were seemingly low and the amounts I am using to achieve the ppm target are close and all under the recommended amounts of nutes for feeding every watering. This leads me to believe it is not a salt buildup but simply the plants showing signs of hunger. Now I know there are nutrients in the soil. The ppm values are declining. I am optimistic that in 4 days when I water and get some runoff the values will be lower. I am going to stay the course with a 600-700ppm feeding next time and hope for the best. It seems like the magic number considering my previous readings in conjunction with my latest results.

Every feeding over the past 4 has resulted in a lower runoff result. I am thinking it may be nothing more than a cal-mag deficiency and I am overreacting. I will be updating progress. I won't see them tomorrow, which is good lol.

I am adding that the one White Widow plant which is one of the younger plants read at 800 ppm on 3/24. This is yet another sign that there may not be any buildup in the soil. This is a different strain but I think this counts for something.

So, I've been working like a mother fucker all day, and I am pretty tired, so I will try not to blab forever, while still getting up to date.

Snow Crash, in so many ways, I agree and disagree. It is clear to me you are an experienced grower and have had a variety of techniques and nutrients, which is excellent. However, I have a few photos that show off the glory that is House and Garden, but really, they just look like big dank plants. Nothing anybody couldn't do with some experience and a quality line up. The reason everyone toots and touts about H&G is because how easy it is to obtain these results, how stable the line up is, how ridiculously long lasting and concentrated it is, but most importantly, and what you cannot see in a picture: The aroma. Dear god, stinky stinky stinky good! I could continue on about what makes it rock harder than it's competitors, including the fact that William Van De Zwann was a scientist (rumored to be the lead scientist) of Canna and left the company to create his own line up which closely resembles the Canna line-up, and I believe is an improvement upon it. They use their own laboratory to develop and test their products, not many can say that.
I suppose if someone has to do it I can create a journal around it, but the idea of posting a journal online where anybody without an account can view really scares the shit out of me.


Anyways, I feel that part of my experience with Fox Farm was user error. But it is apparent that it is not the quality product they advertise themselves as, and the line up carries complications, and the feeding chart is not directed toward cannabis cultivation. No feeding chart technically is, but that Fox Farm chart is off by a mile.

700ppm is exceptionally low to finish, and that may not be the solution for all plants, but I can think of a few times that I have finished at 800 or 850 and pulled ridiculous yield. I definitely agree that the PPM's might be high, especially for being in FFOF. I have never exceeded 1250ppm in Happy Frog when finishing, with the exception of a Strawberry Cough monster that I recently lost mid-flower because I accidentally kicked my digital timer and it double-crossed me, the bastard. My plants usually do pretty well being introduced to flower at 900PPM, but it can be as low as 600PPM depending on strain.

My TDS meter is calibrated at .5 by the way.


Good night everybody. I got paperwork to do and then work in the morning. I wish I got as much sleep as my garden does.

Jozikins said:

However, I have a few photos that show off the glory that is House and Garden, but really, they just look like big dank plants. Nothing anybody couldn't do with some experience and a quality line up. The reason everyone toots and touts about H&G is because how easy it is to obtain these results, how stable the line up is, how ridiculously long lasting and concentrated it is, but most importantly, and what you cannot see in a picture: The aroma. Dear god, stinky stinky stinky good! I could continue on about what makes it rock harder than it's competitors, including the fact that William Van De Zwann was a scientist (rumored to be the lead scientist) of Canna and left the company to create his own line up which closely resembles the Canna line-up, and I believe is an improvement upon it. They use their own laboratory to develop and test their products, not many can say that.

Click to expand...

I don't really care if I can or can't get the aroma. I'm still looking for a single picture of a very healthy plant grown on H&G. Not asking for a lot.

And I wouldn't say "everyone" is proclaiming it's success.

Also, If you take a quick look at their coco formula's

Canna A: 4-0-1 4.5% calcium
Canna B: 1-4-2 1.2% magnesium

H&G A: 8-0-0 11% calcium
H&G B: 2-4-10 ??% magnesium

However you carve it, the ratios are COMPLETELY different.
To start with, we can look at the ratio of Nitrogen to Calcium.
Then we can look at the PK ratio, as well as the Potassium to Calcium ratio.
Then we need to learn if there is at least 2.75% Magnesium. Might be more, or less, so then that ratio is different.

It is almost laughable to compare Canna Nutrients to House and Garden nutrients.

When you actually look at the ratios and the nutrients then you can see the are very obviously extremely different. I'm not going to say one is better than the other... Because I think a person could do better than both.

For $60 you can buy:
1 gallon of CNS 17 Grow 3-1-2 3.6% calcium 0.5% magnesium
1 gallon of CNS 17 Bloom 2-2-3 2.5% calcium 0.5% magnesium
1 gallon of CNS 17 Ripe 1-5-4 1.5% calcium 0.5% magnesium

And that's all you'll need to make ~560 gallons of solution (about 180 gallons of each).
If you are running house and garden then you'd need about 2 liters of each to make the same amount (same concentration) nutrient solution. And the cost on that... $60...

So the Botanicare system is more forgiving and at the same price without having to be so concentrated it is volatile. And it grows AWESOME plants. https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/385450-1000w-coco-multi-strain-medicinal-16.html#post5240059

Even that can be improved on I am sure.

Bottom line is that you need to experiment for yourself and learn first hand what really works. Don't believe everything you read online. Especially when unable to back it up when challenged to produce evidence.

Snow Crash said:

I don't really care if I can or can't get the aroma. I'm still looking for a single picture of a very healthy plant grown on H&G. Not asking for a lot.

And I wouldn't say "everyone" is proclaiming it's success.

Also, If you take a quick look at their coco formula's

Canna A: 4-0-1 4.5% calcium
Canna B: 1-4-2 1.2% magnesium

H&G A: 8-0-0 11% calcium
H&G B: 2-4-10 ??% magnesium

However you carve it, the ratios are COMPLETELY different.
To start with, we can look at the ratio of Nitrogen to Calcium.
Then we can look at the PK ratio, as well as the Potassium to Calcium ratio.
Then we need to learn if there is at least 2.75% Magnesium. Might be more, or less, so then that ratio is different.

It is almost laughable to compare Canna Nutrients to House and Garden nutrients.

When you actually look at the ratios and the nutrients then you can see the are very obviously extremely different. I'm not going to say one is better than the other... Because I think a person could do better than both.

For $60 you can buy:
1 gallon of CNS 17 Grow 3-1-2 3.6% calcium 0.5% magnesium
1 gallon of CNS 17 Bloom 2-2-3 2.5% calcium 0.5% magnesium
1 gallon of CNS 17 Ripe 1-5-4 1.5% calcium 0.5% magnesium

And that's all you'll need to make ~560 gallons of solution (about 180 gallons of each).
If you are running house and garden then you'd need about 2 liters of each to make the same amount (same concentration) nutrient solution. And the cost on that... $60...

So the Botanicare system is more forgiving and at the same price without having to be so concentrated it is volatile. And it grows AWESOME plants. https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/385450-1000w-coco-multi-strain-medicinal-16.html#post5240059

Even that can be improved on I am sure.

Bottom line is that you need to experiment for yourself and learn first hand what really works. Don't believe everything you read online. Especially when unable to back it up when challenged to produce evidence.

Click to expand...

Well, fuck. Make me look like an ass. The majority of that statement was comparing how early stage plants have similar components, like cannazym/rhizotonic v root exculrator/algen extract or even cell splitter. I never thought the formula's were the same, and I never claimed that. I wish you hadn't ignored everything else I had said based on that statement.

Anyways, while I don't have a live plant, here is a freshly trimmed top...

That top was actually from a plant that experienced a lot of light stress from a timer failure. I don't think I have any pictures of my last crop, but if I do I will post, this is still a excellent example for the top of a plant that was less than 2ft tall. I took over this plant a few weeks into flower for a friend, but it is one of the strains I grow frequently.

These right here are pictures of my very first House & Garden grow. Half way through this grow I found out that the H&G line up does need Ca/Mg, especially with R/O, which is what you need to take advantage of several of the components in H&G to their potential, so this is a down fall of the product. However, a lot of nutrient line-ups need a Ca/Mg supplement. I just wish H&G offered a Ca/Mg supplement. I am fairly certain they do of at least one, but it is not here in the US. I think it is is Mg supplement, I don't have any literature available to me at the moment.

The first picture is of a nug that was so heavy it went from the top of the canopy to the bottom, and still came out great, even though it had less light that the other tops, you can see the black tray underneath it. In the picture of all the plants you can see how all the nugs get a crowning effect, this was not from heat stress, the nugs were ridiculously dense, it is just an effect from the shooting powder. Calyx's bust out of calyx's. The ca/mg def was a lesson in life, so please ignore that. The group shot was also taken day 11 of flush.

So I guess we will have to be patient while I journal a new grow as soon as I am done moving.

...God dammit, I wish everyone was here to just smoke this shit with me, already. There would be no more arguments after that. I'd bet my dick on it.

thanx for show ur nugz from ur H & G grow........nice lookin cola's in the one here and the one below was pretty massive....

Jozikins said:

These right here are pictures of my very first House & Garden grow. Half way through this grow I found out that the H&G line up does need Ca/Mg, especially with R/O, which is what you need to take advantage of several of the components in H&G to their potential, so this is a down fall of the product. However, a lot of nutrient line-ups need a Ca/Mg supplement. I just wish H&G offered a Ca/Mg supplement. I am fairly certain they do of at least one, but it is not here in the US. I think it is is Mg supplement, I don't have any literature available to me at the moment.

The first picture is of a nug that was so heavy it went from the top of the canopy to the bottom, and still came out great, even though it had less light that the other tops, you can see the black tray underneath it. In the picture of all the plants you can see how all the nugs get a crowning effect, this was not from heat stress, the nugs were ridiculously dense, it is just an effect from the shooting powder. Calyx's bust out of calyx's. The ca/mg def was a lesson in life, so please ignore that. The group shot was also taken day 11 of flush.

So I guess we will have to be patient while I journal a new grow as soon as I am done moving.

...God dammit, I wish everyone was here to just smoke this shit with me, already. There would be no more arguments after that. I'd bet my dick on it.

View attachment 1514883View attachment 1514884

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I see a lot of burn, and some eagle claw. It grows cannabis, I won't argue with that, but it isn't the end all be all that people make it out to seem like.

As far as claiming that what makes one system similar to another is the supplement line then H&G and Canna both follow a regiment that many other systems utilize. A root enhancer, A two-part base macro, an enzymatic supplement, a high pk bloom enhancer, and a low pk bloom enhancer. By that logic, DynaGro, Dutch Master, Humboldt nutrients, those yellow bottles, Cutting Edge Solutions, and Advanced Nutrients all have very, VERY, similar systems as well.

Therefore, the comparison of Canna to H&G is a moot point. You bring up Canna with respect to people who worked at one and started the other, but beyond that there is no defining characteristic that make them uniquely like one another. The comparison is only made because Canna is the standard in the community at the moment and this is an attempt to try and swipe some of their steam.

Thank you for showing us your pictures. Here's a shot of a single plant grown under 400w, scrogged, with Canna nutrients. 450g yield.

Jozikins said:

These right here are pictures of my very first House & Garden grow. Half way through this grow I found out that the H&G line up does need Ca/Mg, especially with R/O, which is what you need to take advantage of several of the components in H&G to their potential, so this is a down fall of the product. However, a lot of nutrient line-ups need a Ca/Mg supplement. I just wish H&G offered a Ca/Mg supplement. I am fairly certain they do of at least one, but it is not here in the US. I think it is is Mg supplement, I don't have any literature available to me at the moment.

The first picture is of a nug that was so heavy it went from the top of the canopy to the bottom, and still came out great, even though it had less light that the other tops, you can see the black tray underneath it. In the picture of all the plants you can see how all the nugs get a crowning effect, this was not from heat stress, the nugs were ridiculously dense, it is just an effect from the shooting powder. Calyx's bust out of calyx's. The ca/mg def was a lesson in life, so please ignore that. The group shot was also taken day 11 of flush.

So I guess we will have to be patient while I journal a new grow as soon as I am done moving.

...God dammit, I wish everyone was here to just smoke this shit with me, already. There would be no more arguments after that. I'd bet my dick on it.

View attachment 1514883View attachment 1514884

Click to expand...

Snow Crash said:

I see a lot of burn, and some eagle claw. It grows cannabis, I won't argue with that, but it isn't the end all be all that people make it out to seem like.

As far as claiming that what makes one system similar to another is the supplement line then H&G and Canna both follow a regiment that many other systems utilize. A root enhancer, A two-part base macro, an enzymatic supplement, a high pk bloom enhancer, and a low pk bloom enhancer. By that logic, DynaGro, Dutch Master, Humboldt nutrients, those yellow bottles, Cutting Edge Solutions, and Advanced Nutrients all have very, VERY, similar systems as well.

Therefore, the comparison of Canna to H&G is a moot point. You bring up Canna with respect to people who worked at one and started the other, but beyond that there is no defining characteristic that make them uniquely like one another. The comparison is only made because Canna is the standard in the community at the moment and this is an attempt to try and swipe some of their steam.

Thank you for showing us your pictures. Here's a shot of a single plant grown under 400w, scrogged, with Canna nutrients. 450g yield.
View attachment 1515505

Click to expand...

Both are great pics! You both grow good dank, no doubt.

Update on my plants - They seem to be looking better. They've drank a fair amount of water thus far, more than I expected which is good. Bud development is still looking nice and it seems as if the sickness is chilling. I pulled some sick leaves today so I can keep a close eye on their progress. The two younger plants look fantastic and are starting to take off. The White Widow is CHOWING and I have a feeling its going to be a champion if I can avoid problems. It may take water as soon as tomorrow following a hard-core drench just Friday so that's good news. As soon as I get them watered again I will be back with the results.

Fairly certain I will be adding a 400w CMH to my 600w box very soon. the 600 is just not spreading like I'm going to need and I'm pretty excited about the spectrums the CMH bulbs put out.

Great to hear buddy
Should I unsub from this thread then?

Thanks Whodat, that's up to you, my shit always gets sick LOL.

Things seem to be back to normal, pretty sure they were hungry ladies. They could take water now but I'm going to dry them out reeeeaaaaal goot before I feed them again. The Widow might need to eat today though, she's a thirsty little skank.

Fed tonight with Peter's Bloom, Cal-Mag, Silica at 730 ppm total with 175 well water Runoffs were 840 and 916 All plants except the WW are under 1000 now and I think I have things figured out. Almost positive the WW will be under 1000 next feeding because she's already been there. I fed her with a big higher solution because she's eating heavier than the other hookers. Buds are beefing on the older plants, smelling nice and looking pretty. Trained them down a little to open the interior a bit more and expose some smaller colas. The older girls are still a bit pale but I'm hoping it will get a bit better yet as long as I stay on top of the Cal-Mag every feeding. Smelling good! Stickiness all over my arms from training them.

Thanks to all who helped,

Shwagbag

my buddy has a similar prob. at 3-4 weeks in his plants start to get sick.

they are healthy and green and dense and resinous, practically perfect, then the leaves start to spot / crisp, it spreads, the plant starts to die and become useless

it really sucks...

anonymuss said:

my buddy has a similar prob. at 3-4 weeks in his plants start to get sick.

they are healthy and green and dense and resinous, practically perfect, then the leaves start to spot / crisp, it spreads, the plant starts to die and become useless

it really sucks...

Click to expand...

Well I will tell you what it was for me. First time, PH calibration issue and my PH became too acidic. This time it was more than likely a cal-mag deficiency. If PH is metering correctly try administering Cal-Mag at full recommended feeding strength right around the 2nd or 3rd week of flowering. I have to use it every grow, but this grow for some reason demanded it more heavily than my others, perhaps due to the new nutrient selection I'm using. I usually feed every other feeding with it but I'm feeding full strength every watering now and they're pretty happy.

Dont let those salts build up on ya.

whodatnation said:

Dont let those salts build up on ya.

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GOD DAMN WHODAT! How am I ever to find a better avatar than some of these floating around? LOL

Shit is going great now, not perfect but pretty well Fairly certain it was just Cal and Mag running short. They feeding nicely and coming along.

I just realized I said I am feeding full strength every feeding lol. I tailor my feedings based on my runoff. I think I meant to say, I feed every watering.

NICE ASS.

I thought I would update since I like to take pictures of my ladies every once in a while. My runoffs are all under 1000ppm and within 10-15% of what I'm putting in, PH is riding at 6.1-6.3 for all of the flowering plants

Thanks out to Snowcrash for helping me learn to tailor my feedings and use my TDS meter. Thanks to everyone else for helping and opinions within on RIU

PPP 43 days into flower




Another PPP 32 days into flower


White Widow also 32 Days into Flower




The 42 day flowering plants don't have very large buds but the density is awesome. Yield won't be anything to brag about but I think it will be one of the tastiest PPP plants I've done.

I am optimistic about the two plants at 32 days, they appear to be winners so far. The next ten days should be fun to watch.

Damn sb, those are some bushes. Lookin real good.