Large Garden, Big Problem. Please Help Diagnos

I have had this issue about 3 times in the last 8ish months and though that plants always recover it cost me significant time and stress. I can't seem to diagnose the issue. I have opinions and more details about the issue but I don't want to put anything out there yet that might give people the wrong impression and miss diagnose the problem.

The problem always arises during a transitional stage for the plant i.e. after transplanting, changing watering and feed cycles and moving from one room to another (environment changes). Generally when the plants have multiple different stressors to deal with.

In the past once the plants show these kinds of signs they go through a period of getting worse for about a week or two then another week or two in recovery.

If you have a theory please share.

probably stress man. you might be doing too many changes to the plant at once and its being stressed. thats my guess.

When you transplant are you using FF Ocean Forest AND continung to feed them? Just wondering because that really doesn't look like a normal over-nuting situation, but it does point to definite stress on the plants.

Soil is Ready Grow Aeration mix by Botanicare. Soil has a half dose of Happy Frog 5-5-5 granular soil mix added for a nutrient base cushion and microbactiera. Nutrient levels are not out of line with anything I normally do. Though I have backed off normal feeding until the situation is understood.

In the past I thought it was over watering so I discontinued watering and waited for plants to dry to resume but like I mentioned before once the plants show these signs they just wither away till all the current growth is dead and new growth has taken its place. 2-4 weeks total elapsed time.

These plants were moved into the flower room with the intention to continue vegetative growth for about another week before flipping to flower but the morning after moving them into the flower room they looked like this. I made the decision to put them on my drip system rather then let them dry this time around. Now 7 days later they are not getting worse but have not started to get better either. They are producing new growth but very slowly and it is also unhealthy.

Here is some info on my flowering room and system. With pictures of plants running on the same system that are healthy.

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/543138-recirculating-drip-soil.html

The plants from the last run that you see in the pictures of my other thread also went through this same issue prior to me finally getting them healthy again and into the flowering stage.

I'm thinking ( and bear with me, I'm toasted ) you need to hire a Horticultural Psychologist, 'cause dem bitches is crayyy-Z.

Seriously, I'm not a botanist, but this problem is worthy of a "SUB COOL" Weed Nerd episode.

WTF is happening to your plants?

They look overwatered and I suspect that they are not drier than the new medium / soil when u transplant and then u give them a good soaking.,

How many days after the initial transplant do u wait to water? How much water goes thru the pot when transplanting?

Do you have a mother plant, or have you been cloning from those same genetics the whole time.. maybe the problem lies there. if not than perhaps try starting in larger pots or something, less transplant less stress. try to take away as many stress factors as you can for the next grow and see if the problem still exists to the same degree.

Or perhaps its just time for new genetics altogether, get yourself some new seeds and try a new strain, one thats a little more rugged than the one your using now

lahadaextranjera said:

They look overwatered and I suspect that they are not drier than the new medium / soil when u transplant and then u give them a good soaking.,

How many days after the initial transplant do u wait to water? How much water goes thru the pot when transplanting?

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The plant soil prior to transplant wasn't super dry but they were due for watering. They were transplanted about 8 days prior to this issue and were doing really well. The ReadyGrow Aeration soil is more of a hydro medium. So far everyone I have talked with says it would be highly unlikely that it could be over watered that easily.

Things that took place the day before the melt down.

I harvested my flower room and cleaned everything.
Moved these plants from veg into flower room.
Added 1-2" of soil to the top of each plant because they had some extra room.
Watered with plain water 6.8ish PH
Did a good amount of LST although I am not super gentle when I bend so I don't think it is low stress.
Sprayed with Neem oil.

The issue isn't strain specific and this strain is much younger in it's cloning generation.

My $.02

The first stoned thought I had was that the plants can't find the lights (?). Is there 1 light source or multiples?

I had an OG plant that did the same thing with 2 lights. Half was aiming at one light and half at the other. Within the same leaves. The fingers were all twisted up.

Just a thought

Currently I am running the lights checker-boarded and interchanging. Sooo potentially they don't know what direction to aim for because the light direction is changing but this is the first time I have heard of that.

Can anyone confirm this as an issue?

So far I have spoken with 3 other growers 1 with a Boteny degree and the only thing consistent that all three have mentioned as a possibility is Neem oiling with the lights on. I have sprayed Neem oil with the lights on many times without any noticeable issues though it may be stressing them in ways that don't show visibly such as final production weight but if I take that as the main problem culprit and compond it with already stressful conditions (Slight excess of watering, increased light and temps and bending) it may be a reaction from the plant trying to deal with those stressors then not being fully able to realease moisture from the leaves due to the oil.

Any thoughts on this?

Right now I have washed the oil off the leaves with lights off, flushed my res, refilled with fresh PHed water, added 25% strength nutrients and flushed my growing medium with it. Will wait a couple days and watch.

alshli said:

Currently I am running the lights checker-boarded and interchanging. Sooo potentially they don't know what direction to aim for because the light direction is changing but this is the first time I have heard of that.

Can anyone confirm this as an issue?

Click to expand...

I'm sober now and after hearing about your lights I know I'm right! Chalk up another LED problem & why are you doing what it is you do? Is there any benefit to confusing your plants? That alone will shock them.

Good luck!

I can tell you it is NOT over watering. That causes plant leaves to droop straight down, yours are still perky but TWISTY. I cannot tell you exactly what causes that off top of my head. Search "cannabis leaves twisting" or something along those lines, I'm sure others have had the same problem and already had it resolved.

I can also tell you it is NOT from lack of light, because that causes stretching at the internodes. Your plants have a nice bush shape, indicating lighting is fine.

I have seen similar in specific strains, but not as badly as that. And you already specified that it's not strain specific with your grows. Have you had any full grows without this problem?

Homer13063 said:

I'm sober now and after hearing about your lights I know I'm right! Chalk up another LED problem & why are you doing what it is you do? Is there any benefit to confusing your plants? That alone will shock them.

Good luck!

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I don't thinks it's this problem, if it was the problem would not correct itself in two weeks time. If the source of stress is still affecting the plant, it will stay stressed. So if it was lighting the plants would stay fucked. Rather he said new growth comes in healthy after the old twisty shit dies. A simple lighting issue would not cause that kind of result.

alshli said:

So far I have spoken with 3 other growers 1 with a Boteny degree and the only thing consistent that all three have mentioned as a possibility is Neem oiling with the lights on. I have sprayed Neem oil with the lights on many times without any noticeable issues though it may be stressing them in ways that don't show visibly such as final production weight but if I take that as the main problem culprit and compond it with already stressful conditions (Slight excess of watering, increased light and temps and bending) it may be a reaction from the plant trying to deal with those stressors then not being fully able to realease moisture from the leaves due to the oil.

Any thoughts on this?

Right now I have washed the oil off the leaves with lights off, flushed my res, refilled with fresh PHed water, added 25% strength nutrients and flushed my growing medium with it. Will wait a couple days and watch.

Click to expand...

Ill keep my fingers crossed. I was leaning toward the neem being the culprit somehow.

Homer13063 said:

My $.02

The first stoned thought I had was that the plants can't find the lights (?). Is there 1 light source or multiples?

I had an OG plant that did the same thing with 2 lights. Half was aiming at one light and half at the other. Within the same leaves. The fingers were all twisted up.

Just a thought

Click to expand...

does this really make sense to you? lol ever seen a big room?

Homer13063 said:

I'm sober now and after hearing about your lights I know I'm right! Chalk up another LED problem & why are you doing what it is you do? Is there any benefit to confusing your plants? That alone will shock them.

Good luck!

Click to expand...

Just like using a light mover except I just rotate the lights that are on. Only doing this while in veg once they go into flower all the lights are on.

I stopped in at a friends 15,000w garden the other day and he had also just moved his plants into the room from veg and his plants were showing similar signs and a few looked identical aside from the oil residue that was on my plants. He thought he had over watered them. He did not spray his plants with anything so I think I can rule out the Neem oil at least as the main cause though it may have been a slight contributing factor for how bad the plants looked.

My plants have started to recover this time without all the previous damage that I have experienced with this issue. I assume this was due to miss diagnosis/treatment in the past compounding the issue. This was the first time that I have put the plants onto my drip system at the first signs of the problem. I believe this is what kept them healthier then before. If it was over watering the drip system would be flushing the medium with new aerated water 2 times a day giving the roots some of the oxygen they need rather then letting them sit in the excessive water and get worse.

PeyoteReligion said:

I don't thinks it's this problem, if it was the problem would not correct itself in two weeks time. If the source of stress is still affecting the plant, it will stay stressed. So if it was lighting the plants would stay fucked. Rather he said new growth comes in healthy after the old twisty shit dies. A simple lighting issue would not cause that kind of result.

Click to expand...

Come on... Give at least the benefit of the doubt here. The lighting is the only thing it could be. Remember that leaves are solar panels. have you never seen an outdoor plant follow the sun?

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  • I have never ever heard of
    
    
    
    

  
  "Currently I am running the lights checker-boarded and interchanging" Being used. Why? What is the benefit of​
  
  
  • checker-boarded and interchanging? Please let me know.​