L.E.D. grow lights?

holy shit..........this thread and the christianity has finally been debunked thread need to be moved to the never gonna end this argument section.........just my opinion......and yes i have used leds......i was a tool and got fooled into it.....wasted money and ended up buying another hps in the end........argue that.......

nickfury510 said:

and yes i have used leds......i was a tool and got fooled into it.....wasted money and ended up buying another hps in the end........argue that.......

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Sure.
For all you people who claim to have "tried LEDs", were you using any of the following:
1. SuperLED LightBlaze 400
2. Homegrownlights Procyon 100
3. TI-SmartLamp

No? then STFU because you DONT have experience.
It would be like taking Advil for a headache, having the headache persist, and then claiming Vicodin doesnt work because youve "tried painkillers before and they are a scam".
Here, an illustration of my point:



If the entire world worked on these petty little anecdotes there would be no scientific breakthroughs because people like Al B. Fuct (with his poor testing methodology) and people trying weak LEDs (like the UFO and and other china-made products) continually conclude that an entire concept is faulty.

If anybody here would actually take the time to research how much potential LEDs actually have in the field of growing, we wouldn't even be discussing the stupid issues going on right now. Even if my plant isnt the dankest ever grown, it isn't doing bad for a lower-yeilding Lowryder2 strain and if you people had any sort of open mind at all you would realize that this new technology is only 1 or 2 product cycles away from becoming very attractive to many growers... especially considering the 100% heatless environment for stealth growing, low energy consumption, and super long lifespan.

But instead you dismiss all evidence presented to you with complete stubborn stupidity:

wackymack said:

they do not meet the lumen output for a plant.b4 u say lumens dont matter,well they do,thats what determines if the plant will pretty much grow

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Seriously? Nobody else on the forum steps up and corrects total garbage statements like this? You think its OK for WRONG information to be posted and stay unchallenged? This person is saying a complete factually inaccurate statement and NOBODY seems to care, even after I have posted numerous credible links explaining the issue? What is wrong with you all? You should be ashamed of yourselves.

indes said:

First off, Color Temperature..
Corelated Color Temperature (CCT) @350mA rated 80lm - 5000k Typical, 10000k Max.

For vegging, you want something more... something around daylight? Higher in the blue wavelength.. The T-12s I use are 65000k... well more than 10000k.. this would be great for flower time though.. no?

Next is the actual rating of Lumens....

Lumen Rating @ 350mA lm - 80 Typ // 100.4 Max
Lumen Rating @ 700mA lm - 136 Typ // 167. Max
Lumen Rating @ 1000mA lm - 176 Typ // 221 Max

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I appreciate your willingness to do some research before posting.
Couple things wrong though:
1. Nobody to my knowledge is attempting to use white LEDs as your post assumes (there is no color temperature). Grow light LEDs are tailored to the specific red/blue wavelengths that plants utilize best.
2. Because LEDs are tailored to these special wavelengths, the LUMEN measurement becomes extremely irrelevant because it is a yellow-based wavelength-weighted measurement made to measure light intensity for HUMANS not PLANTS.

ganjagoddess said:

If YOU calculate THE INTENSITY OF LEDS, they dont even come close to CFL's.

YOU have to understand that intensities do not directly ADD together no matter how many leds you cram into something, yes they can create a higher reading between two sources of lights but NO MATTER HOW MANY POINTS OF LIGHT YOU HAVE the general output is the same as the one point of light for the whole fixture.

THIS IS why CFLS are crap and Flouro tubes can barely get by, and are barely adequeate for Veggin.

If you understood the basic fundamentals of light you would get that.

A HPS is a single point of light, that puts out all that red and blue.

Your Leds are tiny little points of red and blue.

GETTING THROUGH YET.????

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No. Its really painful to read your embarrassingly ignorant posts.

1. " YOU have to understand that intensities do not directly ADD together no matter how many leds you cram into something, yes they can create a higher reading between two sources of lights but NO MATTER HOW MANY POINTS OF LIGHT YOU HAVE the general output is the same as the one point of light for the whole fixture."

This is completely untrue. Let me try AGAIN to explain it. You understand that light = energy, right? Nobody is arguing that point i hope? Anything that illuminates and you have to plug in takes electricity and converts it to light. The more electricity you give it, the more light it puts out (up until the filament burns out like a fuse).

Now imagine you have 1 light that takes 100 watts and outputs 50 lumens. And now imagine you have another one just like it, both are plugged in. That means you now have 2 separate lights taking 100 watts each and outputting 50 lumens each. Now since light is directional you can point both these lights at the same spot and you WILL GET twice as much light (100 lumens) because they are each taking 100watts of energy, converting it to light, and outputting that energy in the same direction.

2. "THIS IS why CFLS are crap and Flouro tubes can barely get by, and are barely adequeate for Veggin."
No. Many CFLs may perform inadequately as grow lights because of their spectrum:
Image:Fluorescent lighting spectrum peaks labelled.gif - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This is a huge factor everybody on this thread appears to be ignoring.

3. "A HPS is a single point of light, that puts out all that red and blue. Your Leds are tiny little points of red and blue. If you understood the basic fundamentals of light you would get that."
Actually, if you knew the fundamentals of light you would know that it doesn't matter. The monitor you are staring at right now is using tiny points of RED light, GREEN light, and BLUE light to create the "white" you see on screen.

Although LED grow lights have shown promise through plant research by NASA and many universities, it is unknown whether the results are applicable to Cannabis cultivation.
Traffic lights
* Automotive lighting
* Stage lighting
* Bicycle lighting
* Electric torches (flashlights)
* Domestic lighting
* Billboard displays
* Floodlighting of buildings
* Display lighting in art galleries to achieve a low heating effect on pictures etc.
* Train lights (Now common on nearly all modern and most older MU's and Loco's in the UK)


those are the uses for LED lights that wikipedia has listed.
growing plants isn't one of them.

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Because clearly that short list covers ALL the applications for a fundamental lighting device, huh? LEDs are also used in surgical equipment, clock radios, submarines, airplanes, watches, and televisions *gasp* but there was no mention of those on your list!?

Although LED grow lights have shown promise through plant research by NASA and many universities, it is unknown whether the results are applicable to Cannabis cultivation.

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Uh no, actually its not unknown at all. Unless you think there is some crucial fundamental difference between cannabis and any other plant that uses light for food (there isnt), LED grow lights are a perfectly suited technology.

I thought you potheads were supposed to be laid back, lol.

I'm not going to get into the mathmatics and scientific arguments you guys are into now, mainly because I'm a deffinit newb and this is not even close to my expertise. I believe the last 20+ years have pretty well shown us that technology is rapidly moving forward, so it is very likely that LED's will improve to the point they are just as good if not better than other forms of lighting. If not they (scientists and what not) will come up with something far more advanced, if they haven't already. I see that growing with them works, any one who has searched around sees that. It looks like ledgrow's plant is doing well(correct me if I'm wrong, maybe it looks like shit and I'm just to new to this to know the difference), so it is working for him. I would like to thank ledgrow for having this faith in LED's, because this is how we improve on new technologies. For every one who is dead set on putting ledgrow down, what if Christopher Columbus would have been afraid of dropping off the flat earth? or what about all the other pioneers that were thought to be crazy, but are now looked at as geniuses. I won't be buying led grow lights anytime soon because of the price, flouros are cheaper, but maybe here in the next couple of years they will have improved enough on LED's that many people will be using them to grow.

thats a fucking halogen,placed right on top of the head of lettuce,thats not a hid,u idiot.give up already on trying to prove leds are the shit,cus they are not.

Seven posts + this picture = zero credibility

ledgrow said:

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Your Jedi mind tricks don't work.

ledgrow said:

No. Its really painful to read your embarrassingly ignorant posts.

1. " YOU have to understand that intensities do not directly ADD together no matter how many leds you cram into something, yes they can create a higher reading between two sources of lights but NO MATTER HOW MANY POINTS OF LIGHT YOU HAVE the general output is the same as the one point of light for the whole fixture."

This is completely untrue. Let me try AGAIN to explain it. You understand that light = energy, right? Nobody is arguing that point i hope? Anything that illuminates and you have to plug in takes electricity and converts it to light. The more electricity you give it, the more light it puts out (up until the filament burns out like a fuse).

Now imagine you have 1 light that takes 100 watts and outputs 50 lumens. And now imagine you have another one just like it, both are plugged in. That means you now have 2 separate lights taking 100 watts each and outputting 50 lumens each. Now since light is directional you can point both these lights at the same spot and you WILL GET twice as much light (100 lumens) because they are each taking 100watts of energy, converting it to light, and outputting that energy in the same direction.

2. "THIS IS why CFLS are crap and Flouro tubes can barely get by, and are barely adequeate for Veggin."
No. Many CFLs may perform inadequately as grow lights because of their spectrum:
Image:Fluorescent lighting spectrum peaks labelled.gif - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This is a huge factor everybody on this thread appears to be ignoring.

3. "A HPS is a single point of light, that puts out all that red and blue. Your Leds are tiny little points of red and blue. If you understood the basic fundamentals of light you would get that."
Actually, if you knew the fundamentals of light you would know that it doesn't matter. The monitor you are staring at right now is using tiny points of RED light, GREEN light, and BLUE light to create the "white" you see on screen..

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Good I am trying my hardest to cause you pain sir, so please read on.

1.)So You are saying that all the leds in the Pyrocon 100 are focused into a single point of light??

NOPE THEY ARE THERE beam angle is what 30 degrees, maybe 15 at most.

THIS MEANS THEY ARENT ALL BEING FOCUSED INTO ONE BIG DEATH STAR LED GROW LIGHT YOU NUMNUTS.

and there intesity mathmatically in the red and blue spectrum doesnt equal a 250w HPS intesity, even using a LUX reading of 12500 off the Pryocon100 shit or even double that for that matter.


2.)CFLS and Flouros are crap even when you get the properly colored Radjusted color sprectum bulbs, ever heard of em they do make them, oh wait your living under a rock and dont venture out of your shitty purple colored cave ever.

3.)What doesnt matter the fact that hid is able to have all its light come out a relatively single point or the fact that you think all the leds are focused into one big giant beam of light.

Oh wait you live in Ignorance land so it doesnt matter to you.

hey ledblow......i wasted a bunch of cash on that ufo piece of crap...so you can stfu and keep growing shitty little buds with your shity little lights....or are you going to respond with " oh well see...you bought the wrong piece of shit led light system....you should have bought the other piece of shit light system"....save it douchebag..your argument holds no merit....if leds were any good the growers europe would be using them....but they arent...they use hid....why.....because it works better than anything else out on the market today...period..

that this new technology is only 1 or 2 product cycles away from becoming very attractive to many growers

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Exactly, it isn't there yet. We are not debating that LEDs will never have a future in growing...in fact..I believe with time and the increase of technological ability they will advance beyond the capabilities of HID lighting. The only problem is..they aren't there yet. You can continue to tell yourself that LEDs are better than HIDs all you want, granted you would be incorrect, but nonetheless it doesn't matter to me what you say or do. As I said earlier: Enjoy your tiny and spindly plants with hardly and bud production, while we enjoy our healthy and high-yielding plants. I am done arguing this because you, sir (and I do use that term very loosely), are way too proud and ignorant to admit that you are indeed wrong. And you can try to find holes in other peoples arguments all you want, but when the it comes down to facts you just don't really produce any. Give us some pictures of your "super high efficient LED buds" and we will change our minds on the issue, but otherwise you make an argument without and factual evidence and expect us to somehow jump on your bandwagon. Anyway, I am done with this, so go ahead and try to "prove me wrong."

P.s. Lozt- I highly doubt you have any sort of degree other than mediocre high school degree or maybe even a GED certificate, because you have no idea how to spell or use punctuation. You wouldn't even make it past the first week in a college level course with grammar like that.

Seriously show us some proof that LEDS can put out and perform and I will EAT my words.

I have proof HID's can perform, but you have no eveidence.

I want to see leds grows plant able to match my HPS lighted plants yeild.

Which will be impossible even with 10 pyrocon 100's, unless you do find a way to death star concentrate the light.

Which you wont.

and even then all I have to do is put up a single 1000watt HPS and your still beat.

40acres said:

Show us some more pics of your super fat yields with the leds. Those pics you posted earlier of all that good solid buds made me want some led's

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funny

now im not gonna buy LED's nomore.

To be fair the UFO was a piece of crap that uses 5mm LEDS and the new ones use the Luxeons, Crees, and Phillips.

If they can make a single led give off the same intensity of red or blue light as the intensity of a CFL's red or blue spectrum then they will have something.

All of which can be calculated mathmatically.

they will come out with a new light tomorrow shaped like a bunny, and put ads in high times and all over the grow sights saying its the best thing since blow jobs so people will bite. Stick with what has been growing dense and insane buds for decades now HID's. you cannot dispute the fact that skilled growers to a morun that plugs one in can get amazing results. Proven, forever that HID=best bud outcome. till i see proof that LEDs grow big ass buds it doesnt matter what you ufo light people want to say. If anything who really has more merit here LED peeps who cant put up one harvest pic from there product or HID peeps who would have a hard time picking one. let NASA grow peppers in space and we will use our HIDs down here to grow pounds of hydro

Best thing since Blow JOBS hahaha. funny

Peppers in space, lbs of hydro down here.
couldnt have said that better.

and you better believe if our lights didnt need 400,600, or 1000 watts a hour theyd use em too. come to think of it why not just stick some solar panel on those bitches and use 1000 watt HIDS???

ganjagoddess said:

To be fair the UFO was a piece of crap that uses 5mm LEDS and the new ones use the Luxeons, Crees, and Phillips.

If they can make a single led give off the same intensity of red or blue light as the intensity of a CFL's red or blue spectrum then they will have something.

All of which can be calculated mathmatically.

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exactley.........and its the most popular led set-up...........

High times bullshit made that happen, it was also the first led light that could barely keep a plant alive so it was instantly praised

if only greeninplane.com would use cannabis we would have real comparisions and advancements in the field of leds, but he uses plants that need low light levels to thrive and therefore people see that and think "oh gee if its work for peppers then it must work for sinsimilla"

that fuckin light couldnt keep shit alive...thank god i was able to get $400 back from it through craigslist....fuck it though..everyone has to find their own way...but in the end the people who are serious about growing will come around and use the right equipment....it never fails....growing pot costs money...in order to recoup that cost you need to maximize yeild or else your just better off buying from the local dealer...leds and cfls dont maximize shit but clones and mother plants....hid for the big buds everyday.....

the only thing i can give props to the leds are,the leds on freemont st in las vegas.

leds are inferior to grow lights but they are great for commercial lighting,such as freemont st and billboreds and stuff,and are bein put into hospitals and such,for the low wattage and light signiture it gives off.

thats the only thing leds are good for

so sook it led growers

wackymack said:

the only thing i can give props to the leds are,the leds on freemont st in las vegas.

leds are inferior to grow lights but they are great for commercial lighting,such as freemont st and billboreds and stuff,and are bein put into hospitals and such,for the low wattage and light signiture it gives off.

thats the only thing leds are good for

so sook it led growers

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that is an insane light show.........

yea it is.its an amazin feat.and its powered by the colorado river. so yea eco-friendly.