Kamala Harris will announce her bid for 2020 on Jan 21

UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
kamala harris had 5,000 lawyers working under her and the bernie cult will try to hold her responsible for every ham sandwich that any of them ever took a bite of
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
you asked for citations, i gave them to you....if you want to pick them all apart, that's your problem. i don't think your interpretations are valid, and i think the sites you used are at least as biased in the other direction as any i used. so the "facts" depend on whose interpreting them, apparently...you see Bernie as some kind of misunderstood hero, and i see him as a hypocritical piece of shit, who ignores women and minorities,votes to line his own pocket, and talks out of both sides of his mouth about most major issues....
sure this isn't the reply you were hoping for....probably never will be
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If you think Bernie doesn't respect minorities then you've bought into the propaganda put out by his enemies. I defy you to find anyone in the House or Senate with a better record on minority rights.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
kamala harris had 5,000 lawyers working under her and the bernie cult will try to hold her responsible for every ham sandwich that any of them ever took a bite of
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She will never get my vote.

She's JACD:

Just Another Clinton Democrat.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
go suck trump's dick
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Now there's a well thought out argument.

Do you wear a MAGA hat to go with that inchoate hatred of what you fear most?

Your support of Kamala Harris just tips you as an old school Republican conservative week got lost in the wrong side of the aisle.

You're hopelessly out of touch with what's coming.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
summary: address post #226 and all the citations

Otherwise, I feel no obligation to address any of your other faux points made. Address the half dozen points I made in that post with actual observation, thought, and back it up with fact, like I did, or don't expect me to do the same again in any further posts when any of you guys demand as much when you say I don't address facts
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Sanders is OK.

Missing from your list is that he's a divisive leader, didn't accomplish anything of note as a Senator and he's a weak leader on women's issues and completely obtuse about the African American community.

So, Sanders is not perfect. Neither is Harris. Neither is Gabbard, nor any other politician who announces that they are running for the Democratic nomination. That's why any reasonable person will wait until at least the 2019 debates are over and better still, 2020.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Sanders is OK.

Missing from your list is that he's a divisive leader, didn't accomplish anything of note as a Senator and he's a weak leader on women's issues and completely obtuse about the African American community.

So, Sanders is not perfect. Neither is Harris. Neither is Gabbard, nor any other politician who announces that they are running for the Democratic nomination. That's why any reasonable person will wait until at least the 2019 debates are over and better still, 2020.
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The midterms are this November, genius.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
If you think Bernie doesn't respect minorities then you've bought into the propaganda put out by his enemies. I defy you to find anyone in the House or Senate with a better record on minority rights.
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Regarding civil rights, ACLU posted their scores and no Senator has better than 86% score

Including Bernie, there are 7 Senators with a score of 86%. Kamala Harris, Elizabeth Warren, Corey Booker, Kirsten Gilibrand, Jeff Merkely, Ron Wyden

Wyden isn't planning on running. The other 6 Senators say they are.

As I've been saying all along, Bernie is OK. The other ones loo
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Against police body cameras?
Refused to prosecute MNuchin event hough her office recommended it?
Recreational marijuana
Three Strikes?
All the wrongful convictions?
Solitary confinement?
Legal prostitution?
Death penalty?
Civil asset forfeiture?

You would call that "doing her job"?

You're gonna have to do better than that in explaining why you support her in it...

Each of those positions she held are conservative. They're not progressive. So why would someone who claims to be progressive try to defend them?

You don't...?

Someone who doesn't accept legal bribes
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She didn't write the law, she ran the office that prosecutes according to the law. Is she a bit too law and order for my liking? Yes. Then again, no politician is perfect, so I'll make up my mind when I see who she is running against and hear what they say too.

Regarding legal campaign donations, if you don't like the law, get it changed. You must know already that the last time the Senate held a vote to repeal Citizen's United, every Democratic party senator voted to support repealing it. The only way those laws can be reformed is if Democrats control government. Why you bash Democrats for running competitive campaigns makes no sense.
 
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travisw

travisw

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Is that really the case, or are you simply very easily swayed by propaganda pieces that confirm your bias?


I read through the first article you posted and was taken aback by the sheer amount of propaganda the author, Bonnie Kristian, managed to push. Let's start with her premise: "Sanders is not as progressive as he says he is"

Immediately, she tries to steer the narrative as "Sanders isn't a progressive, either!", attempting to contrast his record to Hillary Clinton's, who, by every measurable metric, is, and always has been, much more conservative than Bernie Sanders..

Bad start..

Her main examples used are his voting record on the issues of: Gun reform, criminal justice reform, and foreign policy, so let's examine those..

Gun control: Sanders received a D- rating from the NRA in 2018

"Sanders' staff has tried to explain his comparative conservatism here as part and parcel of representing Vermont, a left-wing but gun-friendly state, but either way, his is hardly a super-progressive record on guns."

"comparative conservatism" - that's an interesting choice of words for a man who received a D- rating from the NRA... "super-progressive", as if "comparatively", an 'F' rating is presumably "super-progressive"... What's a D-? Just standard ol' progressive..? If Sanders received a 'C' or 'B' rating from the NRA, Kristian might have a valid point to poke at, but he has a D- rating.. No rational person would look at that and conclude Sanders is soft on gun control regulations. One final point about this hardlined stance on Sanders on gun control; the exact same people levying the criticism about his voting record and his staff's response to it about representing Vermont citizens are the exact same people who vehemently defend Senators like Joe Manchin and Claire McCaskill who actively vote with the Republican party more than 50% of the time, so spare me the faux outrage over Sanders on his gun control regulation record, it just comes off as extremely hypocritical and disingenuous

Criminal justice reform: "The rhetoric is right. But Sanders' record says otherwise." (here, Kristian actually cites 'The Federalist', to validate her point. A well known right wing propaganda website designed to smear Democratic and left wing politicians)

Kristian continues;

"For instance, Sanders sounded a similar note back in April 1994, decrying America's ballooning prison population and its ties to poverty. But just one week later, he voted to pass the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, a centerpiece of Bill Clinton's "tough on crime" shtick, which, among other things, mandated a life sentence for anyone convicted of three drug crimes; expanded the list of death penalty crimes; lowered the age at which a juvenile could be tried as an adult to just 13; and appropriated billions to expand the prison system and hire 100,000 new police officers."

The Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 was written by Joe Biden, supported by Hillary Clinton, and signed by Bill Clinton

It's interesting how Kristian chose to only include the negatives of the bill in the article, most of which Sanders has publicly available statements in which he's clearly opposed to, like drug crimes, and the death penalty..

According to Wikipedia;

"Following the 101 California Street shooting, the 1993 Waco Siege, and other high-profile instances of violent crime, the Act expanded federal law in several ways. One of the most noted sections was the Federal Assault Weapons Ban. Other parts of the Act provided for a greatly expanded federal death penalty, new classes of individuals banned from possessing firearms, and a variety of new crimes defined in statutes relating to immigration law, hate crimes, sex crimes, and gang-related crime. The bill also required states to establish registries for sexual offenders by September 1997."

So I wonder why Kristian didn't include any of the positives of the bill in her article..

Foreign policy: Bernie Sanders was the only Independent congressman to vote against the Iraq War Resolution. His foreign policy record speaks for itself


It took me an hour to deconstruct this propaganda piece. I simply don't have the time or the will to deconstruct all of them, and that's the point... That's why they're produced at such an exceptional rate. They can't all be combatted, and that's why it's so easy for propaganda to spread.

This was a detailed, thorough analysis of one of your citations. I simply can't do this for all of them, that's why it's so important for you to be able to spot bullshit when you see it before you post it.


All corporate mainstream media has a very specific agenda to sell, that is their entire purpose. That's why they hire pretty thoughtless people who don't rock the boat and pay them millions of dollars a year to say what they want them to say to millions of viewers. It's why Fox News is so successful.

I just spent a considerable amount of time responding to this. I would appreciate a reply from you
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I appreciate you spent, what to you, seemed a considerable amount of time and effort to malign this article. Who among us can't appreciate how labor intensive copying and pasting content from wiki is. Hell, you even changed the font color 3 times. I don't know how you do it man. I for one don't have time to address all the hyperbole in your little text mountain, but the author did make some salient points, despite your best efforts to shit on them.

You claim Hillary by every measurable metric, is, and always has been, much more conservative than Bernie Sanders..

Progressive Punch Score: Sanders 97.18
Clinton 92.19
https://progressivepunch.org/scores.htm?house=senate
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2007/8/10/369633/-

That seems closer than you're claiming.

You say, if Sanders received a 'C' or 'B' rating from the NRA, Kristian might have a valid point to poke at.

His score was a C- in 2006.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/01/26/everything-you-wanted-to-know-about-bernie-sanderss-record-on-guns/?utm_term=.3789573305a6

You say because he voted against the Iraq war resolution his position on foreign policy speaks for itself. You omitted the authors points about Bernie's plans for the drone program, intervention in Libya, the Afghan war, and maintaining the conflict in Iraq.

Is that because his policies are in fact no different than other democrats?
 
Unclebaldrick

Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
doublejj said:
a progressive will never get my vote....
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They've done a pretty fine job of getting people to hate them as much as people hate Trump. Probably has something to do with why they suddenly dropped the capital P. now that they have ruined that brand, they have to try to identify with those less loathsome.

I swear, they could not be doing a better job of serving Putin/Trumps's interests. The most useful of idiots.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
doublejj said:
maybe so but that won't help now....we need trump out, he's killing america
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The same thing is happening to the Democratic Party that happened to the Republicans 20 years ago with the Tea Party.

I think that in general it's a good thing.

I'm more than willing to consider that current circumstances justify compromises but I want to out out that we've already tried that and it's how we got Trump in the first place.
 
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