January 6th, 2021

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Like this winner?

Lock him up.
Exactly my point. That officer made a choice and I would hope he's given appropriate treatment under the law. Putin's psy ops radicalizing the police are not an excuse.

I agree. That is how being a human works.

Also I don't think that those things you mentioned are mutually exclusive.
Not mutually exclusive? What makes you say Putin's psy ops are related to that scene of violence you posted?
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Exactly my point. That officer made a choice and I would hope he's given appropriate treatment under the law. Putin's psy ops radicalizing the police are not an excuse.
Agreed.

Although that would not mean that it wouldn't be useful to know if someone was radicalized into hating women to the point that they would do that to them.

Not mutually exclusive?
Correct. Im not sure why that is confusing, say a terrorist who is radicalized into whatever bullshit cult logic, that terrorist goes out and murders people. That is an example of someone who is radicalized, but still a person who had free will and committed the crimes.

What makes you say Putin's psy ops are related to that scene of violence you posted?
Who said that I did?

But I could see how someone being trolled with nonstop spam about 'Karens' going off on police, and add to that whatever gets spammed to converting INCEL's, and a whole bunch of trolls attacking them with say female accounts on Facebook while others come to their defense convincing them of some stupid shit like the 'free citizens or whatever it is' troll that made the cop think it was ok to much a woman if they 'struck them first' or something stupid like that. Rinse, repeat until the kettle boils.

Am I saying that this is what happened? No of course not. I have no way to know unless I somehow had access to everything that that guy did online and then tried to trace those accounts trolling the guy. And I don't have a nation's resources at my finger tips to spy on everyone and have an army to troll the ones that I could use based on everyone's data being analyzed and AI finding the useful vulnerabilities.

Whats up with you lately, you doing ok? I am not sure why you are keeping up with this obvious trolling of the things I have said, so if there is something you want to clear the air about feel free to not beat around the bush.

I am not trying to upset or troll you, so no worries on my end.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Agreed.

Although that would not mean that it wouldn't be useful to know if someone was radicalized into hating women to the point that they would do that to them.


Correct. Im not sure why that is confusing, say a terrorist who is radicalized into whatever bullshit cult logic, that terrorist goes out and murders people. That is an example of someone who is radicalized, but still a person who had free will and committed the crimes.


Who said that I did?

But I could see how someone being trolled with nonstop spam about 'Karens' going off on police, and add to that whatever gets spammed to converting INCEL's, and a whole bunch of trolls attacking them with say female accounts on Facebook while others come to their defense convincing them of some stupid shit like the 'free citizens or whatever it is' troll that made the cop think it was ok to much a woman if they 'struck them first' or something stupid like that. Rinse, repeat until the kettle boils.

Am I saying that this is what happened? No of course not. I have no way to know unless I somehow had access to everything that that guy did online and then tried to trace those accounts trolling the guy. And I don't have a nation's resources at my finger tips to spy on everyone and have an army to troll the ones that I could use based on everyone's data being analyzed and AI finding the useful vulnerabilities.

Whats up with you lately, you doing ok? I am not sure why you are keeping up with this obvious trolling of the things I have said, so if there is something you want to clear the air about feel free to not beat around the bush.

I am not trying to upset or troll you, so no worries on my end.
I question your statement that the cops are being radicalized into brutality. I think it is a weak excuse that lets abusers off the hook and shifts attention away from the real problem, systemic racism in US government. Furthermore, I question your entire premise -- that Putin's psy ops are at the root of the divisions in the US. I keep saying that you have it backwards. I've given you my reasons.

Then you say I'm trolling. You post insulting memes. Whatever. I don't really care. I'm still here and still waiting for you to either say something convincing or admit that you can't. In order to correct a problem one must first diagnose it correctly. I think your obsession with Putin's psy ops is a distraction over minutia rather than a correct diagnosis of what's happening in our society today.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
I question your statement that the cops are being radicalized into brutality.
Interesting that you decide that brutality was the goal. Feel free to show me where I said that though, I will look at it.

I think it is small thinking to decide that there is only one thing to radicalize people into doing. Some people are going to react in different ways to the radicalization would be how I would suggest thinking about it.

Someone say who was abused as a kid, has all those very real problems inside of them, and I am saying that the radicalization is what makes them think they are right in responding in ways that really are not.

I think it is a weak excuse that lets abusers off the hook
Who is saying that anyone should be left off the hook?

and shifts attention away from the real problem, systemic racism in US government.
I disagree, I think it is understanding the full problem and not just punishing people to make others feel better. That is how the very real problem of systemic racism persists. People from one narrow perspective not taking the time to learn as much as they could from multiple angles to diagnose the problem before reacting.

Furthermore, I question your entire premise -- that Putin's psy ops are at the root of the divisions in the US. I keep saying that you have it backwards. I've given you my reasons.
Here with the bullshit definition that you put on me that is the reason you have it ass backwards, you keep trolling me as saying shit I am not.

"Root" is bullshit, and that is on you.

Reality is the 'Root' Putin just telephone scammed every American and continually used everything they could to exploit our vulnerable. How much the Russian military built from ground up, and how much is the right wing Republican media got hijacked I never claimed to know.

And moreover, you are full of shit by pretending like I have said it is only Russia, the Saudi's, Netanyahu, North Korea, Iran, all the troll farms that are located in different nations around the globe, Canadians, racist agenda here in America, and Evangelicals, and who knows how many others all are in on this attack.

But so far the Russian military is the one that got caught because Trump is a moron.


Then you say I'm trolling. You post insulting memes.
Huh? I am posting insulting memes, at you?

If it wasn't you this would be a point that I might post a snowflake gif though, if it wasn't you man. I do have a lot of respect for the things you post in here, which is why this left-troll energy you are giving off is weird.


Whatever. I don't really care. I'm still here and still waiting for you to either say something convincing or admit that you can't.
About what police radicalization?

Do you think that the pinpoint trolling of our police is not happening? If that is what you are saying, it would be interesting to try to understand why you think that they are not? Everything I have ever seen about police families scream 'We are a police family' and they would make themselves very easy to target with the propaganda spam terrifying them that their loved ones wouldn't come home because of some 'ANTIFA'.

Oh wait. I forgot this too:


This is a pretty interesting article too. It is too long to post it, but it has some great examples of the Russian military using American cops as propaganda.

In order to correct a problem one must first diagnose it correctly.
I agree.

I think your obsession with Putin's psy ops is a distraction over minutia rather than a correct diagnosis of what's happening in our society today.
If you are going to have a mental block with your continual bullshit warping of what I have said, that is on you.

This is just the flip side to the Republican not wanting to see anything Russia too. Ignore it from the left, and ignore it from the right, and hope that trolls can nudge people enough to get them to not want to talk about Russia and how they are using spammed propangda to attack us all into information bubbles

And just so you don't pretend like I am saying otherwise, be the trolls directly paid by the Russian military, dark money bit coin oligarch funded troll farms in the Philippines, or some kid who joined up at his local church club to troll people, can also simultaneously push propangda to help nudge too.

Until we can actually talk to one another understanding how to sift through the bullshit in large enough numbers, we are vulnerable.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Interesting that you decide that brutality was the goal. Feel free to show me where I said that though, I will look at it.
I didn't read past the first sentence because you started off with denying what had you said earlier.

I'll simply re-post your statement about how cops are brutal because they "were radicalized".


Those police who broke the law and became criminals have been just as radicalized as anyone else. Some since birth, others later using propaganda to play on the things that they seen and heard growing up that didn't stick until they got spammed the worst of the worst of everything that they demonstrated would impact them.
Putin's psy ops or what we heard or saw while growing up are irrelevant when it comes to acts of violence perpetrated by one person upon another, especially when the aggressor is a cop. The supervisor of that cop who beat the woman in that vid you posted said the same.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
I didn't read past the first sentence
Shocker.

because you started off with denying what had you said earlier.

I'll simply re-post your statement about how cops are brutal because they "were radicalized".
Reading can be tough so I will forgive you for thinking that 'just as radicalized as anyone else' is the same as them being brutal 'because they "were radicalized", but you are wrong.
Screen Shot 2021-06-11 at 5.36.41 PM.png


Putin's psy ops or what we heard or saw while growing up are irrelevant when it comes to acts of violence perpetrated by one person upon another, especially when the aggressor is a cop. The supervisor of that cop who beat the woman in that vid you posted said the same.
There you go conflating the guilt of the perpetrator of the crime's guilt with understanding how they got there.

It's a lot like white people that buy into the trolls that black people are somehow more violent or whatever it is and when people point out the very real systemic racism that brutalized those kids growing up goes a long way into hardening them into a life of crime. And they shut off their brains because they too don't want to understand what is going on.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Shocker.


Reading can be tough so I will forgive you for thinking that 'just as radicalized as anyone else' is the same as them being brutal 'because they "were radicalized", but you are wrong.
View attachment 4921251



There you go conflating the guilt of the perpetrator of the crime's guilt with understanding how they got there.

It's a lot like white people that buy into the trolls that black people are somehow more violent or whatever it is and when people point out the very real systemic racism that brutalized those kids growing up goes a long way into hardening them into a life of crime. And they shut off their brains because they too don't want to understand what is going on.
Just saying, start with the wrong diagnosis and the patient will still be sick after doing your utmost to treat them.
 

mooray

Well-Known Member
There you go...
I've noticed that he really only understands two or three types of people and will manipulate whatever information people provide in order to place them into a category that he is able to understand. It's common for people to draw parallels to better understand things, but like anything else, it's a skill and when a person isn't very good at it, things go south.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Just saying, start with the wrong diagnosis and the patient will still be sick after doing your utmost to treat them.
That is why I usually at some point go back to the old stand by of 'Are you an American, and if so are you ok with the attack that the Russian military is conducting on our citizens?' when posting here with people who are obviously trolling me.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
That is why I usually at some point go back to the old stand by of 'Are you an American, and if so are you ok with the attack that the Russian military is conducting on our citizens?' when posting here with people who are obviously trolling me.
I'm not dismissing Putin's attacks on the US through his psy ops. They had a marginal effect on the US election.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
I'm not dismissing Putin's attacks on the US through his psy ops. They had a marginal effect on the US election.
Cool, see we are coming from the same side then.

100,000 give or take out of almost 130 million is the exact kind of margin that was enough to sway the 2016 election.

How much impact do you think Trump had on police violence towards our society since 2017?
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Cool, see we are coming from the same side then.

100,000 give or take out of almost 130 million is the exact kind of margin that was enough to sway the 2016 election.

How much impact do you think Trump had on police violence towards our society since 2017?
It feels as if there was an increase in police violence during Trump's time in office but there isn't much data to back that up:

1623450697423.png


From that graph, it's hard to say if there is any difference between 2013-16 and 2016-2019.

Based on the data available, I'd say Trump didn't have much of an impact. But the data are crap.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
It feels as if there was an increase in police violence during Trump's time in office but there isn't much data to back that up:

View attachment 4921289


From that graph, it's hard to say if there is any difference between 2013-16 and 2016-2019.

Based on the data available, I'd say Trump didn't have much of an impact. But the data are crap.
Yeah it is tough to actually know what you are actually getting.

This is a pretty interesting site on police violence too.
https://mappingpoliceviolence.org
Screen Shot 2021-06-11 at 6.38.54 PM.png

Everything data wise seems to be mostly shooting related, so I am guessing we won't find out anytime soon about all police brutalizing the public to be able to compare things like head slammed into the roof of the patrol car upon arrest.

Also I am guessing that these stats don't include Feds.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Yeah it is tough to actually know what you are actually getting.

This is a pretty interesting site on police violence too.
https://mappingpoliceviolence.org
View attachment 4921291

Everything data wise seems to be mostly shooting related, so I am guessing we won't find out anytime soon about all police brutalizing the public to be able to compare things like head slammed into the roof of the patrol car upon arrest.

Also I am guessing that these stats don't include Feds.
If we use the data, it would seem that Trump did not affect police violence (insert caveat here). That said, there was a shift between the 90's and the '00's. Police killings nearly doubled in the first decade.

Where were you going with this?
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
If we use the data, it would seem that Trump did not affect police violence (insert caveat here). That said, there was a shift between the 90's and the '00's. Police killings nearly doubled in the first decade.

Where were you going with this?
Is there supposed to be a destination?

Looking back,

Screen Shot 2021-06-11 at 8.08.33 PM.png

I was thinking about the impact Trump has had on all aspects of our lives during his term.

It is interesting about the police killings just being a normal year for them. But it doesn't really help us with understanding actual incidents of what is going on behind the blue wall. I don't doubt that as long as cops have been given the green light on shooting people its been pretty steady (with respect to population density/poverty/police force size) killings.

This is an interesting chart on that website you posted:

Screen Shot 2021-06-11 at 8.17.17 PM.png
 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
sadly, told you we were due our one a week on Tuesday. Luckily no one died- everyone just going crazy seeing no way out anymore


i mean didn't Texas take away that extra $300 weekly to boost your UI which was part of a Federal Bill- the American Rescue Plan Act? didn't pipes freeze and burst last winter because of climate deniers?- sure Secede.
 
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