Jack's 321 Questions

Skybound420 said:

Are you in the USA? Where can you order ferts from? Can ya share a link?

I've been beating my head the past few days in search of a micro formula, but to predict which will work best with our preferred part A is a lesson in futility and I'm wondering if it would just be better to build the entire fert line from chelated elements like nxsov does. This we can perfectly dial in the micros which would make it a lot easier to adjust the macros.

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not chelated

first time seeing masterblend. cheaper than jacks for sure!
and I do like the extra p and k vs N the original 321 was really N heavy and not enough P for me,
I'm thinking about just switching the formula to that at 2g.
I always mixed the regular 321 in flower after caps 321 recipe for veg.

shawnery said:

Look at how crazy these numbers are for 5 gallons unless I screwed up again and look at what my last good grow looked like with these ratios.

Those numbers seem way off, why did my plants love it so much during veg but not so much in flower?

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I think you did something wrong because your P was over 100 in your readout. I just did your 12-12-6 with MB and the stock solutions and though a few of the numbers were high, the results all in range more or less.



Edit - ^That is for 5 gallons

im4satori said:

not chelated

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Why not chelated? When perusing available products, it seems most of the individual micros are chelated in the package.

Isn't mg way to low? It looks like it's less than 1/2 of the least required.

And I don't know how the hell my numbers were off so bad.

The numbers I have are 40-50ppm for both veg and bloom. 34 is low, but 6ppm less than the minimum.

30G over 5 gallons? you now I never went over 600ppm with jacks 321. how are you putting that much in and not burning? are you diluting into your res?

like, in the heat of flower not over 600ppm.

actually nvm im high. u gud fam

I figured out I had to switch p and k to the other option. Also my nutes are slightly different,

Epsom
S - 12.8
Mg - 9.7

Calnit
No3 - 15.5
Ca - 19

How's this looking? Been messing around with the dosages backwards. Switching out fluid as we speak. I know most people have a much busier life than I but I need an opinion soon.

looks a little low on mg if you are doing the 2-1 ca-mg ratio, some plants need more than that .

Skybound420 said:

Why not chelated? When perusing available products, it seems most of the individual micros are chelated in the package.

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not all the chelated powders are compatible in a concentrate
hydro buddy wont even let you use some
I use Fe dtpa which might be considered chelate I cant recall....
I think you can get away with zinc and or Mn chelate but ive not had good luck with changing it up

personally I just prefer the Zn sulfate and Mn sulfate... for me they dissolve bteer in the concentrate

I ran my micro nutes 50/50 one time chelate/sulfate and it was fine but I didn't see any improvements over not using it that way

I know many nutes have chelates and advanced uses it as advertising but ive just not seen the need

im4satori said:

not all the chelated powders are compatible in a concentrate
hydro buddy wont even let you use some
I use Fe dtpa which might be considered chelate I cant recall....
I think you can get away with zinc and or Mn chelate but ive not had good luck with changing it up

personally I just prefer the Zn sulfate and Mn sulfate... for me they dissolve bteer in the concentrate

I ran my micro nutes 50/50 one time chelate/sulfate and it was fine but I didn't see any improvements over not using it that way

I know many nutes have chelates and advanced uses it as advertising but ive just not seen the need

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When compiling Jack's with STEM, I find my Iron to land around 1.7 ppm which from my studies might lead to improper use of sulfur and P I think as well. I'd "like" to get that closer to your recommended 2 for peace of mind and wanted to shop for the Iron. I guess what I'm asking is should I not buy Iron that is chelated? I know in the STEM, 4 of the 6 trace elements are chelated, and Iron is one of the chelated, so I just assumed a little more of the same would fit right in.

shawnery said:

I figured out I had to switch p and k to the other option. Also my nutes are slightly different,

Epsom
S - 12.8
Mg - 9.7

Calnit
No3 - 15.5
Ca - 19

How's this looking? Been messing around with the dosages backwards. Switching out fluid as we speak. I know most people have a much busier life than I but I need an opinion soon.

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IMO, that mix looks REALLY good. The K looks a little high, but N and K being the most abundant, I presume the added few PPM will make no difference at all. All the micros look great too. If I were you, I'd stick with that one till you can expand your options with other products.

Awesome and thanks again everyone!

The numbers are kind of deceiving though since I mix it at 50% for high pressure aeroponics. I'm worried more about the ratios in relation to one another. Right now I'm amazingly right at 1.0ec which is exactly where I was with my old mix, coincidence.

Thanks again.

Skybound420 said:

When compiling Jack's with STEM, I find my Iron to land around 1.7 ppm which from my studies might lead to improper use of sulfur and P I think as well. I'd "like" to get that closer to your recommended 2 for peace of mind and wanted to shop for the Iron. I guess what I'm asking is should I not buy Iron that is chelated? I know in the STEM, 4 of the 6 trace elements are chelated, and Iron is one of the chelated, so I just assumed a little more of the same would fit right in.

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I cant really recall exactly
ive had issues with getting chelates to fully dissolve in concentrates and did some reading on the subject but this was a long time ago so I don't recall enough... i just know some will work and some wont

i use iron dtpa and it goes in the same stock tank as the calcium nitrate ... but if using edta it may need to be in stock tank B ... im just not sure again i don't recall without looking it up in some reference... like i said much of this info ive read but don't have enough recall to speak on it intelligently or fully

i know ... some reagents are not compatible...

FWIW, I haven't mixed any of my products until the weekly res change and my concentrates are very diluted at 1 gram to 10ml, and everything now is in 9 different bottles. I have my eye on this Iron that turns out to be the same Iron you're using. Do you think it would be ok to mix into the STEM?

https://customhydronutrients.com/sprint-chelated-iron-fertilizer-c-1_50_100.html?zenid=9c09ba135633c88b922336900a63ac21

Edit - scratch that, IDK WTF I was looking at, but after rereading the bottle, there's no chelates in it, so I'll just add more iron sulfate till I can get a 2 out of it.

Can't you just use fulvic acid for organic chelation instead of looking for nutrients that are chelated or am I missing something?

shawnery said:

Can't you just use fulvic acid for organic chelation instead of looking for nutrients that are chelated or am I missing something?

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When I started with the salts I was adding a fulvic/humic/kelp blend, but it would only stay suspended for about a day, then just settle on the bottom of the res. I now just use that in my compost teas.