Jack's 3-2-1 question

Canadain Closet Gardener

Canadain Closet Gardener

Well-Known Member
This goes for all dry ingredient mixes. Make sure you have an accurate scale for measuring. My friend killed all her house plants using a plastic dollar store scale. I also won't make a mixture unless it's 5 gallons or more.

Most of these dry mixes seem to suck up moisture from the air changing their weights. I transfer it from the 25lbs big bags to Large pails for easier storage. This keeps it dry once the bag are opened, Do the transferring outside as it gets quite dusty doing it. ;) I also keep some in small tubs on my mixing table for easier mixing.

I've been using Jacks for more than three years indoors and out. I love it as it's quite economical and easy to store. At first, I was using about an 75% strength as I was worried about to burning my plants but now I confidently use it at full strength. Now it will burn your plants if you go over strength. (make sure you measure accurately)

For mixing
I use a drill with a paint mixer to stir my mix in a 5 gallon pail, I put 5-12-26 and Epson salt first then add water. Then I stir with a drill then go for a smoke. add
Then add the 15-0-0. Give it a good stir. and good to go.
Dump the mix into the res.

once a or twice a crop I will add a small amount of JR Peters MOST (Mix of Soluble Traces) to a feeding. Only because I have it don't really need it.

Jacks has more that 3 parts now too. Although I still use the 3 part system.

CANNABIS AND HEMP SCHEDULES | jrpeters12345

www.jacksnutrients.com www.jacksnutrients.com

Cheers
CCG
 
Hollatchaboy

Hollatchaboy

Well-Known Member
Canadain Closet Gardener said:
This goes for all dry ingredient mixes. Make sure you have an accurate scale for measuring. My friend killed all her house plants using a plastic dollar store scale. I also won't make a mixture unless it's 5 gallons or more.

Most of these dry mixes seem to suck up moisture from the air changing their weights. I transfer it from the 25lbs big bags to Large pails for easier storage. This keeps it dry once the bag are opened, Do the transferring outside as it gets quite dusty doing it. ;) I also keep some in small tubs on my mixing table for easier mixing.

I've been using Jacks for more than three years indoors and out. I love it as it's quite economical and easy to store. At first, I was using about an 75% strength as I was worried about to burning my plants but now I confidently use it at full strength. Now it will burn your plants if you go over strength. (make sure you measure accurately)

For mixing
I use a drill with a paint mixer to stir my mix in a 5 gallon pail, I put 5-12-26 and Epson salt first then add water. Then I stir with a drill then go for a smoke. add
Then add the 15-0-0. Give it a good stir. and good to go.
Dump the mix into the res.

once a or twice a crop I will add a small amount of JR Peters MOST (Mix of Soluble Traces) to a feeding. Only because I have it don't really need it.

Jacks has more that 3 parts now too. Although I still use the 3 part system.

CANNABIS AND HEMP SCHEDULES | jrpeters12345

www.jacksnutrients.com www.jacksnutrients.com

Cheers
CCG
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I usually use a small water pump in a bucket. I add the 5-12-26, let it mix for a while till I don't see any salts in the bottom, then I add the calnit, and do the same, then the magsulfate. I haven't gotten a cloudy mixture yet that I know of. I'm guessing, from what I've read, that I would know if I did get a cloudy mix.
 
Skybound420

Skybound420

Well-Known Member
firemarshall22 said:
Was definitely not referring to your plants by the way. I was referring to the person that makes money by reviewing their products on youtube and similar platforms and spreads misinformation for their own benefits.

Jacks 321 is cool, I'm using it. But I don't think it's geared for Cannabis as much as they say. Like someone else said earlier, it runs hot and is also low on P. That's why people are buying supplements.

There are a ton of great people on this website. And there are a ton of really shitty people on this website. I'm just trying to open people eyes to consumerism and commerce. People are being paid to review things, of course they misrepresent them, to Make Money.
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Great perspective! This is why I went fully salt based nutes. Fuck ALL brands! None of them are geared towards Canna, let alone Sativas vs Indicas, or even strain specific. The way I do it is all about NPK and nothing more. I can change the N only, or any one or several elements as I see fit and when I communicate my experiences with other growers, we speak in elemental NPK and collectively can pinpoint the best formulas for the plants we grow. I only briefly used 321, and like you noticed Gene's garden didn't look all that great. He's just a likable personality IMO, but I sought perfection or as close to it as was in my power to achieve.

All of my research is on 420, but I had to come here to RIU to learn all of the basics, so it's not like a site specific thing, I just call 420 my home. Someone linked my thread a few posts up and the meat and potatoes are in the first 3 pages. It cost me less than $200 to buy everything before shipping and I only need to spend roughly $30 every 6 months to replenish things like CalNite or MKP. All of my micros I will never have to replenish as the small quantities will last all of my life. IMO, going fully salt based is a no brainer and you can buy it wherever you can find it. Hydro Buddy (or Excel spreadsheets) does all of the computing.

I quietly chuckle at some of the horror stories growers have with Megacrop or Jack's, even more to watch Megacrop basically copy Jack's formula, but it's sad when a grower's only option is to add more or less of the same branded product, when I have the freedom to alter the elemental ppm of each element as I see fit.
 
Hollatchaboy

Hollatchaboy

Well-Known Member
Skybound420 said:
Great perspective! This is why I went fully salt based nutes. Fuck ALL brands! None of them are geared towards Canna, let alone Sativas vs Indicas, or even strain specific. The way I do it is all about NPK and nothing more. I can change the N only, or any one or several elements as I see fit and when I communicate my experiences with other growers, we speak in elemental NPK and collectively can pinpoint the best formulas for the plants we grow. I only briefly used 321, and like you noticed Gene's garden didn't look all that great. He's just a likable personality IMO, but I sought perfection or as close to it as was in my power to achieve.

All of my research is on 420, but I had to come here to RIU to learn all of the basics, so it's not like a site specific thing, I just call 420 my home. Someone linked my thread a few posts up and the meat and potatoes are in the first 3 pages. It cost me less than $200 to buy everything before shipping and I only need to spend roughly $30 every 6 months to replenish things like CalNite or MKP. All of my micros I will never have to replenish as the small quantities will last all of my life. IMO, going fully salt based is a no brainer and you can buy it wherever you can find it. Hydro Buddy (or Excel spreadsheets) does all of the computing.

I quietly chuckle at some of the horror stories growers have with Megacrop or Jack's, even more to watch Megacrop basically copy Jack's formula, but it's sad when a grower's only option is to add more or less of the same branded product, when I have the freedom to alter the elemental ppm of each element as I see fit.
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That's great. I had thought about going that route. Are you talking about just the macros, or are you weighing and mixing the micros also?
 
F

firemarshall22

Active Member
Skybound420 said:
Great perspective! This is why I went fully salt based nutes. Fuck ALL brands! None of them are geared towards Canna, let alone Sativas vs Indicas, or even strain specific. The way I do it is all about NPK and nothing more. I can change the N only, or any one or several elements as I see fit and when I communicate my experiences with other growers, we speak in elemental NPK and collectively can pinpoint the best formulas for the plants we grow. I only briefly used 321, and like you noticed Gene's garden didn't look all that great. He's just a likable personality IMO, but I sought perfection or as close to it as was in my power to achieve.

All of my research is on 420, but I had to come here to RIU to learn all of the basics, so it's not like a site specific thing, I just call 420 my home. Someone linked my thread a few posts up and the meat and potatoes are in the first 3 pages. It cost me less than $200 to buy everything before shipping and I only need to spend roughly $30 every 6 months to replenish things like CalNite or MKP. All of my micros I will never have to replenish as the small quantities will last all of my life. IMO, going fully salt based is a no brainer and you can buy it wherever you can find it. Hydro Buddy (or Excel spreadsheets) does all of the computing.

I quietly chuckle at some of the horror stories growers have with Megacrop or Jack's, even more to watch Megacrop basically copy Jack's formula, but it's sad when a grower's only option is to add more or less of the same branded product, when I have the freedom to alter the elemental ppm of each element as I see fit.
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You're awesome man. I am new to all this as I was a soil grower before (only 1 full run with coco which I used CES nutrients and had some issues). The information you posted is Exactly what I was looking for before I purchased Jacks. Wish I had found this sooner! Thankfully I only purchased the small bags of Jacks. Seriously big help, thank you!
 
Skybound420

Skybound420

Well-Known Member
Hollatchaboy said:
That's great. I had thought about going that route. Are you talking about just the macros, or are you weighing and mixing the micros also?
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I weight out the salts only when making my concentrates. I stuff enough chelated micros to make 500 gallons of feed into a half gallon jug which is a 1000:1 ratio. I also make individual concentrates from macros, but those are just a 10:1 ratio. When this is done, and I mix my watered down feeds, everything is measured in ml of liquid which keeps the scales for only when making concentrates.

So to make my feeds, it's always 3.8ml of micro mix per gallon of feedstock(res), and for the macros 1 gram of dry salt is in the form of 10ml of liquid concentrate. So if Hydro Buddy tells me I need 2.255 grams of CalNite, I simply shift the decimal over 1 position and it then becomes 22.5ml of liquid CalNite. So when I am super stoned, the quick math in my head is still very easy.
 
Skybound420

Skybound420

Well-Known Member
firemarshall22 said:
You're awesome man. I am new to all this as I was a soil grower before (only 1 full run with coco which I used CES nutrients and had some issues). The information you posted is Exactly what I was looking for before I purchased Jacks. Wish I had found this sooner! Thankfully I only purchased the small bags of Jacks. Seriously big help, thank you!
Click to expand...
The great thing about Hydro Buddy is when you learn to use it, you can reformulate your branded nutes so you can change a few things up to get a better formulation. It's not as good as mixing from salts, but it still allows you to use your current supplies to make a better mix for your crop. HB is a powerful app, and it's free. It does have some bugs though, but it's still free, lol.
 
Skybound420

Skybound420

Well-Known Member
Hollatchaboy said:
Man I don't have a computer for hydro buddy. I've been wanting to download it for a while now. I'll get before my next run and I'll start learning the ratios.
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Perhaps you can find someone's spreadsheet to use on your phone? IDK enough about MS Excel to know if they run on phones, but it's a possibility. But for the freedom a grower gains from mixing his own blend, to me it's well worth it to buy an old PC to use. My laptop is from 2012 and originally came with Windows 7, that's how old it is. I'm sure you can find something 2nd hand, just for HB if need be, it's a very light duty app.
 
Hollatchaboy

Hollatchaboy

Well-Known Member
Skybound420 said:
Perhaps you can find someone's spreadsheet to use on your phone? IDK enough about MS Excel to know if they run on phones, but it's a possibility. But for the freedom a grower gains from mixing his own blend, to me it's well worth it to buy an old PC to use. My laptop is from 2012 and originally came with Windows 7, that's how old it is. I'm sure you can find something 2nd hand, just for HB if need be, it's a very light duty app.
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Alright.... I'm gonna start looking for one now. Lol
 
Hollatchaboy

Hollatchaboy

Well-Known Member
Skybound420 said:
Perhaps you can find someone's spreadsheet to use on your phone? IDK enough about MS Excel to know if they run on phones, but it's a possibility. But for the freedom a grower gains from mixing his own blend, to me it's well worth it to buy an old PC to use. My laptop is from 2012 and originally came with Windows 7, that's how old it is. I'm sure you can find something 2nd hand, just for HB if need be, it's a very light duty app.
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For now though, do you suggest making concentrates of the 3 different parts of Jack's? Is it better to make my own 3 part bottled nutes?
 
Skybound420

Skybound420

Well-Known Member
You can't mix Jack's or STEM into concentrates because the micros, Iron in particular are not chelated and they WILL oxidize within hours and turn into rust water. To make micros into concentrates, they MUST be chelated with organic acids like DTPA, EDDTA, EDTA, Amino etc. Also, I keep everything (except micros) individually mixed and only bring them together in the final solutions as needed to prevent precipitation. Some growers like to make a 2 part or 3 part, but I find that to be counter productive as that locks you into a recipe that cannot be changed once mixed. Keeping it all separate enables me to make a custom mix every single time. If I find a mix I like, I just keep making the same thing, but should I ever want to make a slight change, a 2 part or 3 part would prevent that from being possible.
 
Hollatchaboy

Hollatchaboy

Well-Known Member
Skybound420 said:
You can't mix Jack's or STEM into concentrates because the micros, Iron in particular are not chelated and they WILL oxidize within hours and turn into rust water. To make micros into concentrates, they MUST be chelated with organic acids like DTPA, EDDTA, EDTA, Amino etc. Also, I keep everything (except micros) individually mixed and only bring them together in the final solutions as needed to prevent precipitation. Some growers like to make a 2 part or 3 part, but I find that to be counter productive as that locks you into a recipe that cannot be changed once mixed. Keeping it all separate enables me to make a custom mix every single time. If I find a mix I like, I just keep making the same thing, but should I ever want to make a slight change, a 2 part or 3 part would prevent that from being possible.
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Ok, so I should just keep mixing the way I am now. I don't get any cloudiness in my res, so I believe I'm doing something right. Lol
 
Skybound420

Skybound420

Well-Known Member
Hollatchaboy said:
Ok, so I should just keep mixing the way I am now. I don't get any cloudiness in my res, so I believe I'm doing something right. Lol
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Yeah, that's your call. I was just suggesting that if you're going to try other brands, to consider just buying salts and make your own brand. 321 requires you to use the scales every time you gotta weigh things out, but salts you only need to use a scale every few months.
 
Hollatchaboy

Hollatchaboy

Well-Known Member
Skybound420 said:
Yeah, that's your call. I was just suggesting that if you're going to try other brands, to consider just buying salts and make your own brand. 321 requires you to use the scales every time you gotta weigh things out, but salts you only need to use a scale every few months.
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Understood. Any suggestions on what salts and where to get them?
 
Skybound420

Skybound420

Well-Known Member
Hollatchaboy said:
Understood. Any suggestions on what salts and where to get them?
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Here's a link to my Bill Of Materials. MAP isn't included, but that's the only one I bought after writing that up. The micros will only need to be purchased once. Here's where I get most of my stuff, but Greenway also sells some, Build-a-Soil, Amazon and likely other place. Aint gonna lie, shipping is costly, but IMO, it's still worth it.

http://customhydronutrients.com/water-soluble-fertilizers-c-1/

I use the following;

Haifa Calcium Nitrate
Magnesium Nitrate
Epsom Salt
Potassium Sulfate (SOP)
Potassium Silicate
Potassium Nitrate
Monopotassium Phosphate (MKP)
Monoammonium Phosphate (MAP)

189.27 grams mixed into a half gallon of RO to make a 1:10 concentrate. I round that 189.27 up to an even 189.3 so I can use the bigger 0.0 scale because it's a pain in the nuts to weigh out stuff in the hundredths range. The 0.00 scale is needed to make a micro mix though. Once micros are mixed, I only target macros with Hydro Buddy and when it has the above compounds to utilize, it achieves my targets flawlessly with zero error.
 
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