It's Not Easy Being Ultra-Rich

krime13 said:
OK ENOUGH!!!! VI, MED, DANK, I have been following this feud for a week now , yes , you all have some valid point however those points are hard to see through the BULLSHIT! I know sometimes we all get hard headed and pissed of and that is ok but THIS is bullshit, It is a waste its like a bunch of third graders spitting on each other...I propose the trouth, a seasefire, after all I would like to have a dialog with someone about the issues at hand...Vi , can we continue the disscussion about the similarities and differences of corrupt socialist economics and the present state of corrupt capitalism? Dank and Med, I know we dont share alot of vews with 7x and Vi but it doesnt really accomplish anything to resort to insults (I'm not a saint , I've done it my self) but I belive it shows weakness in our logical thoght, thank you in advance Krime13.
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Krime, mi compatriot, I've been trying to sow some sense into those three fellows since I came to this site a couple a years ago and guess what, it is a useless effort, so I get a better feeling shooting arrows at them than trying to convert them. Kinda like Christians and Muslims, They'll never get along in our lifetime, Might as well just figure it out and declare all out war. then when the smoke clears, if anyone is left, they can try and get along. I've explained a hundred times to them that the Iraq war is about profit and oil, they still don't get it. How do you deal with that much ignorance? "It's about helping the Iraqi people get rid of a dictator and stop sadam from engineering nuclear weapons and linking up with al-queda". Duh! If they truly believe that, then there's no use arguing with them as they are too dense to see the truth. We have killed more than 3 times the amount of Iraqis that Sadam killed, turned Iraq into chaos, have 2 million displaced Iraqis living in squalor, started a sectarian war, destroyed at least 1/3 of the infrastructure, and keep on keeping on. There are thousands of Iraqi children with Cancer from our depleted uranium weapons, the water is poisoned, there is no electricity to purify the water supply and they are drinking out of the river that has dead bodies floating down it, come on, they can't see how insane this is?
 
That maybe so, however when ingaged in conflict it benefits one to stay coldblooded, rational and detached, your posts would be so much better if you just put the emotions aside and bombard them with facts they cant argue with.It might not win over the "sinister 3" , but its a public forum everybody else might learn a thing or two. Peace .
 
krime13 said:
That maybe so, however when ingaged in conflict it benefits one to stay coldblooded, rational and detached, your posts would be so much better if you just put the emotions aside and bombard them with facts they cant argue with.It might not win over the "sinister 3" , but its a public forum everybody else might learn a thing or two. Peace .
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And there you hit the nail on the head, krime. Those on the left are, for the most part, all about emotion. They don't have facts and truth on their side. They are devoid of rationality, and when their "ideas" are challenged, all they can do is respond with emotion and personal attacks. Then, when they finally discover that the jig is up, they put those they can't compete with on ignore. Either that, or they just answer every post with some inane, stupid, ignorant comment. They cannot debate in a logical manner. You can see their reaction in the media all the time. When challenged, they just start a monologe and never let a word in edge-wise. Either that, or they just try to shout down the person they are debating with. They are all emotion and no substance.

Vi
 
ViRedd said:
And there you hit the nail on the head, krime. Those on the left are, for the most part, all about emotion. They don't have facts and truth on their side. They are devoid of rationality, and when their "ideas" are challenged, all they can do is respond with emotion and personal attacks. Then, when they finally discover that the jig is up, they put those they can't compete with on ignore. Either that, or they just answer every post with some inane, stupid, ignorant comment. They cannot debate in a logical manner. You can see their reaction in the media all the time. When challenged, they just start a monologe and never let a word in edge-wise. Either that, or they just try to shout down the person they are debating with. They are all emotion and no substance.

Vi
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Hate to tell you this Vi, but I think you just described your post with your post...Anyway, can I get a responce to that eastern europe thing?
 
krime ...

I only respond negatively to personal attacks.

On the Eastern European "thing:" It was the class envy propaganda of Marxism and Leninism that started the path to economic and personal slavery in the Communist States. I have a very good friend who lived under that tyranny in one of the worst of those police states ... Romania. I also have clients who lived under the Communist State of Poland. I have a business associate who lived under the Communist State of Russia. They all tell me the very same thing ... that Americans had better wake up. They see the same things starting to happen here. Government handouts are nothing more than appeasments to keep you satisfied until the velvet glove of quasi-socialism comes off to reveal the iron fist of totalitarianism.

Don't be a sucker.

Vi
 
Vi for once we agree on something, I too belive this country is headed in that direction, however the reasons for it are completly different from what you have stated.The economic slavery you are talking about is here for me, and the rest of the middle class, and it wasnt induced by the goverment (at least not directly) , but instead by the corporations, privetised healthcare, poor and privetised education...The rich have manipulated the markets and wages to pout the blue collar man in the cage of slave labour...Add the artificially inflated realstate market and the ever rising cost of living and you have your working slave class full af class envy without any need for propaganda...
 
krime13 said:
Vi for once we agree on something, I too belive this country is headed in that direction, however the reasons for it are completly different from what you have stated.The economic slavery you are talking about is here for me, and the rest of the middle class, and it wasnt induced by the goverment (at least not directly) , but instead by the corporations, privetised healthcare, poor and privetised education...The rich have manipulated the markets and wages to pout the blue collar man in the cage of slave labour...Add the artificially inflated realstate market and the ever rising cost of living and you have your working slave class full af class envy without any need for propaganda...
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I'm waiting to see if he listens to your debates or just as with mine, shuffles them off to never-never land and comes back with the same old right wing drivel. Wanna make a bet?
 
krime13 said:
Vi for once we agree on something, I too belive this country is headed in that direction, however the reasons for it are completly different from what you have stated.The economic slavery you are talking about is here for me, and the rest of the middle class, and it wasnt induced by the goverment (at least not directly) , but instead by the corporations, privetised healthcare, poor and privetised education...The rich have manipulated the markets and wages to pout the blue collar man in the cage of slave labour...Add the artificially inflated realstate market and the ever rising cost of living and you have your working slave class full af class envy without any need for propaganda...
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Krime ...

With all due respect ... read and understand the founding documents. The Founders went through all of what we are going through before rebelling against the King. Remember, the Founders were not Americans ... they were British subjects. They were terrorists who committed treason against the Crown. You talk about the rising cost of living, inflated real estate prices, expensive gasoline, etc. When I was in high school a good sized home cost $5000. A gallon of gas cost 23 cents a gallon. A good suit of clothes cost $20. And we thought THAT was expensive. In my grandparents day, milk cost 5 cents a quart and a home cost $900. Hell, a new car only cost them $250. Again, read the Constitution and you'll discover the reasons things have changed so drastically. A great start would be to read Article I, Section 8, where is says that Congress has the power to COIN money and the power to punish counterfeiters.

Vi
 
Vi its a fact that the standara of living have dramatically and steadilly dropped for majority of americans over the past 60 years...In my industry healthcare used to be free with the job, or so I hear from the oldtymers, now I cannot aford my weekly healthcare payment it beeng roughly 1/5 of my pay. In many jobs that I worked the pay rate havent risen in 20 to 30 years while the realstate, food, healthcare and other necesities whent sky high...If you think this is bad , try puting your kids through collage on a blue collar pay.
 
krime13 said:
Vi its a fact that the standara of living have dramatically and steadilly dropped for majority of americans over the past 60 years...In my industry healthcare used to be free with the job, or so I hear from the oldtymers, now I cannot aford my weekly healthcare payment it beeng roughly 1/5 of my pay. In many jobs that I worked the pay rate havent risen in 20 to 30 years while the realstate, food, healthcare and other necesities whent sky high...If you think this is bad , try puting your kids through collage on a blue collar pay.
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Here's some facts for ya> if you make 18.00 an hr., pretty high blue collar wage, you gross 720.00 a week. Now you pay 108.00 in federal, 60.00 in FICA, and what ever your share of your medical is (If you have a plan), lets say 60.00 which leaves you 492.00 net per week. A shit house apartment is 800+ per mo, electric is 150.00 gas water sewage etc. 50.00 except in winter when the heating bill can run hundreds, a car payment, 350.00. car insurance 100.00 gas for the car, 50-100.00 a week misc. 300.00 , That leaves you approx 143.00 for everything else like groceries, toothpaste etc. Start a savings account for your retirement, maybe you could put 50 cents a mo. in it. I love it when these white collar execs. say, you should have saved when you were young, hey, kiss my ass, I WAS TOO BUSY TRYING TO PAY MY FUCKING BILLS. And there a whole lot of us blue collar workers making less then 18.00 an hr.
 
Well, you two completely missed my point. Again, read Article I, Secetion 8. Then study to find out all that it entails.

Vi
 
Hey VI, check this out, Bush has violated the constitution, here's proof: Article 1 section 9;
"The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it."
I believe this is grounds for impeachment, Also as to your section 8 malarky, it seems Bush has bypassed the congress in making rules for invasion of foriegn soveriegn nations. I'd say it opened my eyes to more justification for Impeachment and the absolute necessity for such action. Also read this: "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;" Does this not empower the government to collect taxes? It didn't say except "Income taxes" and as far as uniform, that says to me,: "if you charge a millionaire 25% taxes in Alabama, You must also charge a millionaire in Texas or Wyoming 25%. Maybe we arent reading the same constitution. Do they have a special one labled "For VI only"?
 
Med ...

Go to your local Border's book store and buy a copy of The Federalist Papers. Then find the writings of the founders as they pertain to taxes. With the Federalist Papers in hand, its much easier to interpret the Constitution.

Do you honestly believe that the Founders would allow for an income tax and a central bank? Hell man, they were willing to give up all their wealth, possessions and their lives to break from the Bank of England and tithing to the Crown.

Vi
 
ViRedd said:
Med ...

Go to your local Border's book store and buy a copy of The Federalist Papers. Then find the writings of the founders as they pertain to taxes. With the Federalist Papers in hand, its much easier to interpret the Constitution.

Do you honestly believe that the Founders would allow for an income tax and a central bank? Hell man, they were willing to give up all their wealth, possessions and their lives to break from the Bank of England and tithing to the Crown.

Vi
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You and I both know they'll never get rid of the FED, too complicated and the FED is way too powerful. So my specious friend, get used to paying taxes and when the dems come to power, get used to those Bush tax cuts for you rich Bastards going Bye-Bye. I can almost see your blood vessels bursting as you contemplate those bananas. Get some prozac, it seems to work for Iraq soldiers.~LOL~. BTW, I have to buy a book to interpret the constitution. Why don't I just intrepret it myself. Like I know what the word tax means, it means a sum of money extracted for a service by a government. I also am not happy with the services provided, I'd much rather see the money spent on the US citizens than corporations and war profiteers. But that is the irony. You and I basically have no say in what the taxes are spent on. You see, I believe government is there to serve the people, a naive idea I know, but the wicked beings in government have turned the tax issue into a give away to corporations, war contractors, and big Pharma, plus all their pet projects.
 
"BTW, I have to buy a book to interpret the constitution."

No, that wasn't the point of recommending The Federalist Papers to you. The point was, they will enable you to decypher the original intent.

Vi
 
ViRedd said:
"BTW, I have to buy a book to interpret the constitution."

No, that wasn't the point of recommending The Federalist Papers to you. The point was, they will enable you to decypher the original intent.

Vi
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I think it is pretty understandable in it's present form. I dont need a right wing nazi interpreter to show me the intent. I'll just stumble along with my view of what it says. Actually, I think the "founding Fathers" would want it that way, after all, that is the way it is written. You could get a dozen different interpretations of the document as modern lawyers have proven. leave the damn thing alone.
 
"I'll just stumble along with my view of what it says."

Nothing is sadder than a mind slammed shut.

Vi
 
ViRedd said:
"I'll just stumble along with my view of what it says."

Nothing is sadder than a mind slammed shut.

Vi
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Boy, you've got that right. So how does it feel being closed to all new ideas. I guess you're stuck in that right wing mind warp. Check out the definition of progressive and you'll see where I'm at, mind wide open. I don't need any help with my reading thank you, and I sure as hell don't need any right wing drivel about how I should view the Constitution.
 
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