Irish Boy's 2011 Spectra Led Grow (Revenge Of Casey Jcnes))
- Thread starter irishboy
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Shwagbag
Well-Known Member
R.I.C.E.
Rest, Ice, Compression, Elevation.
I have the worst ankles of any person I know. Been through dozens of ankle sprains and I rarely had the time/patience to let them heal properly. Now that I'm getting older I regret it lol. Follow those rules and you will heal faster than just resting it, use the web for more info. Get better!
irishboy
Well-Known Member
ive been taking it easy and doing the RICE. going to get x-rays tomorrow.
andthatisright
Well-Known Member
Hi fellow irish boy.. tell me this your saying a 600w is a 600w, but does 600w of led light not create a lot more light than the 600w hps?
irishboy
Well-Known Member
not really sure how to answer that one or a answer for that. never put them side x side. are u asking if its brighter? i think you can get more penetration from leds because you can adjust the led lenses and you can keep them closer. but i dont know a answer for that?
Shwagbag
Well-Known Member
Its more complicated than that and the jury is out but this is the ideology behind it..... This is my understanding of wattage comparisons. I would guess that LED vs HID would put out comparable results regarding yield and potency if the light was of quality construction and the wattage was ACTUALLY equal. LED units produce a light / heat ratio that is much more usable by the plant compared to that of HID. HID is skewed toward higher heat production and less light production. Contrarily, LED is capable of turning the same power consumption into more usable light in a wider light spectrum and much less heat.
When I say "more light" I don't mean lumens, but "usable" light in a wider variety of kelvin temperatures. Although HID is brighter and optically has superior lumen output, the color temperature is isolated and offers only a fraction of what is actually usable by the plant. HPS which is used for flowering is considered red or warm, Metal Halide blue or cool. The light spectrum is very isolated and specific compared to LED, which is very wide - red and blue all of the time
This is why these lights are great for veg and/or flower. It has been said by many growers that more blue light during flower produces more compact and resinous buds while compromising yield. Perhaps this is why CMH is gaining popularity and why some people opt to use both MH and HPS for flowering. To me this makes sense regarding what we hear from so many LED growers that have achieved good results and report that they are impressed with resin production - maybe because of the added blue light. Here is a plant usage chart related to kelvin temperatures. I ripped this from an led website.
I'm always curious what the lumen output of LED's is compared to HID but LED manu's don't ever offer that info. I think they're afraid to advertise it because it doesn't keep up with that of HID. I think an LED would make up for lack of lumens with a wider spectrum of "usable" light that simply can't be offered by HID though. Suppliers would have to spell this out for growers and although some of us love to read that type of data, most of us are not that smart and don't care to learn a lot of that stuff lol.
Sooner or later hopefully someone will break out the light meter and start measuring lumen output of some units and applying the inverse square law to them so we can get some kind of idea of how these lights penetrate. Based on what I've seen from irish's journals they penetrate just fine
Claims that 100 or 200 watt LED's equal 1000w HID are bogus, like Irish says again and again in his journals. I just came across this today and figured Irish's thread might be a good place to share it, I hope you don't mind Irish. Extrapolate the results of this sample and one would fully expect that an equal wattage comparison would be much more fair.
[video=youtube;_CtROw3uiVg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CtROw3uiVg&feature=player_embedded#at=81[/video]
kckid816
Active Member
sorry about the foot man. Hope you get better quickly. Here's some new shots. The LSD keep stretching right up to the light. I can't really move the light any higher. They have stretched over 4x their height since going into 12/12. The laggers are coming along too. I'm going to get some nice tops off of these LSD girls. I don't think I've ever grown tops this big.
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irishboy
Well-Known Member
from what i understand leds are not measured in lumens but PAR. but i really dont know the tech stuff i just know if the led light works when i throw them under my girls.lol.Its more complicated than that and the jury is out but this is the ideology behind it..... This is my understanding of wattage comparisons. I would guess that LED vs HID would put out comparable results regarding yield and potency if the light was of quality construction and the wattage was ACTUALLY equal. LED units produce a light / heat ratio that is much more usable by the plant compared to that of HID. HID is skewed toward higher heat production and less light production. Contrarily, LED is capable of turning the same power consumption into more usable light in a wider light spectrum and much less heat.
When I say "more light" I don't mean lumens, but "usable" light in a wider variety of kelvin temperatures. Although HID is brighter and optically has superior lumen output, the color temperature is isolated and offers only a fraction of what is actually usable by the plant. HPS which is used for flowering is considered red or warm, Metal Halide blue or cool. The light spectrum is very isolated and specific compared to LED, which is very wide - red and blue all of the time
Here is a plant usage chart related to kelvin temperatures. I ripped this from an led website.
I'm always curious what the lumen output of LED's is compared to HID but LED manu's don't ever offer that info. I think they're afraid to advertise it because it doesn't keep up with that of HID. I think an LED would make up for lack of lumens with a wider spectrum of "usable" light that simply can't be offered by HID though. Suppliers would have to spell this out for growers and although some of us love to read that type of data, most of us are not that smart and don't care to learn a lot of that stuff lol.
Sooner or later hopefully someone will break out the light meter and start measuring lumen output of some units and applying the inverse square law to them so we can get some kind of idea of how these lights penetrate. Based on what I've seen from irish's journals they penetrate just fine
Claims that 100 or 200 watt LED's equal 1000w HID are bogus, like Irish says again and again in his journals. I just came across this today and figured Irish's thread might be a good place to share it, I hope you don't mind Irish. Extrapolate the results of this sample and one would fully expect that an equal wattage comparison would be much more fair.
[video=youtube;_CtROw3uiVg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CtROw3uiVg&feature=player_embedded#at=81[/video]
very cool bro. do you have allot of single finger leafs?
kckid816
Active Member
Fuck yea. I thought something was wrong with them at first as I had never had that many happen.
irishboy
Well-Known Member
ive had that before also.
irishboy
Well-Known Member
heres a update. its hot!!lol. max temps today were 102-103F, its been like this all week. girls are still lagging and flowering slowly. i pulled one girl out because she was a runt and was just blocking light from my big girl. i am running out of head room and my big girls are touching the glass on the led units.lol
since the girls are getting so close and temps are so high, so as of right now i am only running one 500w in the middle. figure ill get better mixing of the spectrum since they were so close to the units.
since the girls are getting so close and temps are so high, so as of right now i am only running one 500w in the middle. figure ill get better mixing of the spectrum since they were so close to the units.
irishboy
Well-Known Member
na bro i cant run a/c in that room. things have already hit 110F a few times. they are healthy just lagging on flowering. ive already over fed them big time and nothing, my theory is right about leds and heat stress. now i have another theory i am working on and this is why i am running one 500w right now, i will run only 2x290's once i get them in instead of all 4 of them. thinking i am having too much light for how hot it is and its messing with the girls? just makes them use more energy and gets them tired because the more light the more their photosynthesizing too much? kinda makes sense and its worth a try, no need to also waste the power on all 4 if these girls are lagging on flowering. i should have only used 1x500 a while ago
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
My understanding is that this is one of the great benefits of led lighting technology(that they provide more usuable light per watt). More of the energy consumed is turned into light, rather than heat. For this reason they are considered more efficient and should theoretically provide more light for the same amount of electricity. They do have some other drawbacks, but the 2 biggest features are supposed to be same amount of light for less electricity, and they last much longer than traditional bulb types. I guess a way to reason this is look how much longer a flashlight's batteries last with led bulbs, and the bulbs also don't get nearly as warm, but the light tends to be equal to or brighter than with an incandescent bulb.
Edit: schwagbag just answered this alot more technically and completely a few posts back- lol... Sometimes it pays to read the whole thread befre adding comments
irishboy
Well-Known Member
see HID is allot of reflected light since its round, so allot of light dose get wasted and allot of of the spectrum's are not used. leds are directional and you can fine tune the color, so ya i guess if u have the right led light watt for watt it puts out more usable light for plants, "not just more light"My understanding is that this is one of the great benefits of led lighting technology(that they provide more usuable light per watt). More of the energy consumed is turned into light, rather than heat. For this reason they are considered more efficient and should theoretically provide more light for the same amount of electricity. They do have some other drawbacks, but the 2 biggest features are supposed to be same amount of light for less electricity, and they last much longer than traditional bulb types. I guess a way to reason this is look how much longer a flashlight's batteries last with led bulbs, and the bulbs also don't get nearly as warm, but the light tends to be equal to or brighter than with an incandescent bulb.
Edit: schwagbag just answered this alot more technically and completely a few posts back- lol... Sometimes it pays to read the whole thread befre adding comments
irishboy
Well-Known Member
since temps have been so hot i am thinking of either running 2x290's or 3x180's in my 4x4 tray. cant decided what will be better? around the same watts.
i am thinking instead of getting the whole 4x290's witch is 1160w i should get 6x180's because its 1080w and each girl can have their own 180w light. but in reality instead of the 4x290=1160w i can run 4x180's and only use 720w. witch is 280w less then the two 500's i am running right now. thinking the 180's might be allot better choice for my summer grows? use less watts and get more foot print. use 4x180's in my flowering room and 2x180's in my veg room, instead of 3x290's in my flower room and 1x290w in my veg tent. just not sure if the 180's will make me lose that much yeild compared to the 209's? any opinions? also witch light source would me using be the most help for others to see? now the 180's are smaller units size wise 180w= 15 3/4 x 8 1/2 and the 290w= 19" x 13"
i am thinking instead of getting the whole 4x290's witch is 1160w i should get 6x180's because its 1080w and each girl can have their own 180w light. but in reality instead of the 4x290=1160w i can run 4x180's and only use 720w. witch is 280w less then the two 500's i am running right now. thinking the 180's might be allot better choice for my summer grows? use less watts and get more foot print. use 4x180's in my flowering room and 2x180's in my veg room, instead of 3x290's in my flower room and 1x290w in my veg tent. just not sure if the 180's will make me lose that much yeild compared to the 209's? any opinions? also witch light source would me using be the most help for others to see? now the 180's are smaller units size wise 180w= 15 3/4 x 8 1/2 and the 290w= 19" x 13"
medicine21
Active Member
For a 4x4, my choice would be 4x180W. My rationale is that 4x290W would likely yield more, but not 60% more (which is the additional wattage and heat to manage). 4x180 can cover a 4x4 pretty efficiently IMO.
I agree, 45w of LED panel (2-3w per fan?) per square foot with 4x180s is plenty enough too. I run a 2011 395w GLH (same number of diodes as the new 500w) at 62w per square foot (counting fans) in my space and I think its twice what is reasonable
If you plan to only ever use them in 4x4 or smaller tents then I would go with the 180s, if you plan to eventually use them in rooms or very large tents I'd go with the 290s