Im surprised

doc111 said:
OK I'm convinced.:roll: Both sides are for the most part against legalization. With the exception of Barney Frank I cannot think of one single dem who openly supports legalization. You seem to live in a fantasy world where democrats all favor legalization and it's the big bad republicans who block it at every turn. Some of you libs need to open your eyes to the truth. Neither side wants it legalized. It was a democratic president who made it illegal yet you seem to ignore that fact and want to put it all off on the republicans. I can't think of a single democratic pres or a single repub pres who has tried to legalize weed. What say you? :weed:
Click to expand...

I can count on both hands the number of dems that have opposed marijuana legislation in the past 5 years. On the other hand you can COUNT on the republican party to try to shoot down ANY legislation about pot, even med.
 
matthew said:
Socialism is just a political ideology and has nothing to do with what kind of nation we are. All the Euro nations are republics and have socialist parties.

Again I ask, if socialism is so bad, why is socialist western Europe better than us at almost everything?
Click to expand...
Have you been there? Europe is beautiful and its people, for the most part, don't have the shit diets and non-stop lifestyles that Americans have. That has been a big part of our downfall. I understand what socialism is. It sounds great but most of the countries who have tried it have failed. If all you have to do is go and get a handout how long is it going to be before there are a relative few working to pay for a relative many receiving handouts? It's unsustainable and too much of it is a bad, bad thing! If you can read undertheice's post it is explained quite brilliantly and to a T. If you want to be a sheep and line up at the trough for your share of the slop then go ahead and keep supporting the agenda being put forth by the powers that be. It's been bad on both sides but I think this administration has taken it to a whole new level. I am a free man and I want no part in any system which takes away personal liberties in favor of the nanny state. :peace:
 
i guess undertheniece missed the lessons on American Imperialism back in middle school.

and you're so convinced europe is 'mediocre'...

that's why Europeans are smarter, healthier, happier, and richer than americans?? it's the damn mediocrity....

everything about your post was wrong..... hahaha..... laughable...
 
matthew said:
I can count on both hands the number of dems that have opposed marijuana legislation in the past 5 years. On the other hand you can COUNT on the republican party to try to shoot down ANY legislation about pot, even med.
Click to expand...
Please cite your sources. What member of congress has openly come out in favor of legalization besides Ron Paul and Barney Frank? I'm sure there are a few at least but these are the only 2 I'm familiar with so forgive me for asking you to provide names of members of congress who openly support legalization. ;-)
 
redivider said:
i guess undertheniece missed the lessons on American Imperialism back in middle school.

and you're so convinced europe is 'mediocre'...

that's why Europeans are smarter, healthier, happier, and richer than americans?? it's the damn mediocrity....

everything about your post was wrong..... hahaha..... laughable...
Click to expand...
I don't believe that Europeans as a whole are "richer" than Americans. Perhaps now that we've had a global recession Europe may end up ahead of us but I think we are still richer per capita.
 
matthew said:
Socialism is just a political ideology and has nothing to do with what kind of nation we are.
Click to expand...

That ideology changes the attitudes of it's people to a hand-out society. This makes it very easy to be controlled, and so you have a perfect situation for evil and death, like : Soviet Union ,NAZI Germany, Red China, Cambodia, North Korea, and so on..
Think I'm being extreme ? All it takes is a few people with an agenda and a crisis, once a socialist structure is in place.

Pick a time and place and you can see the damage to the freedom of man in every socialist government and program.
Pick any, they are not even successful in what they try to accomplish, including keeping costs down.

The people have less choice because of it.
The people become dependent on it
The people are punished for success
No competition destroys productivity
Then, power corrupts

Socialism, it's policies and programs does change our nation by changing people's attitude towards government and their actions in general.
By it's very definition, socialism it is not compatible with the constitution.
 
doc111 said:
Have you been there? Europe is beautiful and its people, for the most part, don't have the shit diets and non-stop lifestyles that Americans have. That has been a big part of our downfall. I understand what socialism is. It sounds great but most of the countries who have tried it have failed. If all you have to do is go and get a handout how long is it going to be before there are a relative few working to pay for a relative many receiving handouts? It's unsustainable and too much of it is a bad, bad thing! If you can read undertheice's post it is explained quite brilliantly and to a T. If you want to be a sheep and line up at the trough for your share of the slop then go ahead and keep supporting the agenda being put forth by the powers that be. It's been bad on both sides but I think this administration has taken it to a whole new level. I am a free man and I want no part in any system which takes away personal liberties in favor of the nanny state. :peace:
Click to expand...

You are making a lot of claims and not backing them up with examples. European style socialism produces better healthcare for cheaper, better education, better quality of life and better at just about everything else.

Something tells me you are confusing socialism with communism.
 
doc111 said:
Please cite your sources. What member of congress has openly come out in favor of legalization besides Ron Paul and Barney Frank? I'm sure there are a few at least but these are the only 2 I'm familiar with so forgive me for asking you to provide names of members of congress who openly support legalization. ;-)
Click to expand...

Who said anything about open support? Not objecting when legislation comes up is going to be about the only mainstream support we can count on. I am not claiming that Democrats are the party of pot, just that they oppose marijuana legislation far, far less than Republicans.

It is a safe bet today that if someone is spearheading an anti-pot bill anywhere in the US, they are probably a Republican.
 
matthew said:
You are making a lot of claims and not backing them up with examples. European style socialism produces better healthcare for cheaper, better education, better quality of life and better at just about everything else.

Something tells me you are confusing socialism with communism.
Click to expand...
I backed up my claim with 2 sources. Where are your facts?????:confused:

matthew said:
Who said anything about open support? Not objecting when legislation comes up is going to be about the only mainstream support we can count on. I am not claiming that Democrats are the party of pot, just that they oppose marijuana legislation far, far less than Republicans.

It is a safe bet today that if someone is spearheading an anti-pot bill anywhere in the US, they are probably a Republican.
Click to expand...
I did. Again, if what you say is true then back it up with some sort of website, article or something. If you can back up your claim with a reliable source I will concede that my position is wrong (although the only claim that I've made is that both parties oppose legalization).;-)
 
Man o' the green said:
That ideology changes the attitudes of it's people to a hand-out society. This makes it very easy to be controlled, and so you have a perfect situation for evil and death, like : Soviet Union ,NAZI Germany, Red China, Cambodia, North Korea, and so on..
Click to expand...

One of my biggest pet peeves regarding history. You have just pointed to all of those as examples of socialism. What you really did is give 4 examples of communism and another (Nazism) being fascist nationalism. The "Socialist" in the "National Socialist" Nazi party is a complete misnomer. Nazi Germany had an economy based on a mix of aristocracy and capitalism which is in no way socialist. Hitler himself despised Marxism and Communism, believing both systematically planned to hand the world over to the jews. During Hitlers rise to power he played both sides of the tracks to gain support of the workers which is where the "Socialist" came from. But in reality he also privately gained support of wealthy Germans businessmen and once in power actually abolished trade unions, collective bargaining, and the right to strike.

We think our own politicians are shady and liars. Why are people so surprised to find out Hitler was one as well?!?! bongsmilie
 
Dragline said:
One of my biggest pet peeves regarding history. You have just pointed to all of those as examples of socialism. What you really did is give 4 examples of communism and another (Nazism) being fascist nationalism. The "Socialist" in the "National Socialist" Nazi party is a complete misnomer. Nazi Germany had an economy based on a mix of aristocracy and capitalism which is in no way socialist. Hitler himself despised Marxism and Communism, believing both systematically planned to hand the world over to the jews. During Hitlers rise to power he played both sides of the tracks to gain support of the workers which is where the "Socialist" came from. But in reality he also privately gained support of wealthy Germans businessmen and once in power actually abolished trade unions, collective bargaining, and the right to strike.

We think our own politicians are shady and liars. Why are people so surprised to find out Hitler was one as well?!?! bongsmilie
Click to expand...
Who is surprised to find out that Hitler was a shady liar????:confused:
 
doc111 said:
I backed up my claim with 2 sources. Where are your facts?????:confused:
Click to expand...

Point them out. All I see thus far is "socialism is bad" which is directly contradicted by reality.

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mortality_rate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

Healthcare, infant mortality and GDP figures clearly showing socialist countries beating us in all fields.

Need more citations, just ask.

doc111 said:
I did. Again, if what you say is true then back it up with some sort of website, article or something. If you can back up your claim with a reliable source I will concede that my position is wrong (although the only claim that I've made is that both parties oppose legalization).;-)
Click to expand...

If you really want me to I will look up the 5 most recent anti-pot bills and see if they had more Ds or Rs co-sponsering but I have gardening to do right now :joint:
 
Dragline said:
One of my biggest pet peeves regarding history. You have just pointed to all of those as examples of socialism. What you really did is give 4 examples of communism and another (Nazism) being fascist nationalism. The "Socialist" in the "National Socialist" Nazi party is a complete misnomer. Nazi Germany had an economy based on a mix of aristocracy and capitalism which is in no way socialist. Hitler himself despised Marxism and Communism, believing both systematically planned to hand the world over to the jews. During Hitlers rise to power he played both sides of the tracks to gain support of the workers which is where the "Socialist" came from. But in reality he also privately gained support of wealthy Germans businessmen and once in power actually abolished trade unions, collective bargaining, and the right to strike.

We think our own politicians are shady and liars. Why are people so surprised to find out Hitler was one as well?!?! bongsmilie
Click to expand...

Might also want to ask yourself why, if Hitler was such a good little socialist, he rounded up and hunted socialist just like he did Nazis.
 
matthew said:
Point them out. All I see thus far is "socialism is bad" which is directly contradicted by reality.

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mortality_rate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

Healthcare, infant mortality and GDP figures clearly showing socialist countries beating us in all fields.

Need more citations, just ask.



If you really want me to I will look up the 5 most recent anti-pot bills and see if they had more Ds or Rs co-sponsering but I have gardening to do right now :joint:
Click to expand...
Most of those countries aren't socialist bro. They have more elements of socialism that we do but they are not socialist countries. It doesn't have much to do with the form of govt. in western europe as much as their lifestyle. Just go visit europe and you'll quickly see what I'm talking about. If you love socialism so much go live there. I and many others don't want to see our republic turned into a nanny state. You will never convince me that form of a govt. is better. Sorry.:cry:
 
doc111 said:
Who is surprised to find out that Hitler was a shady liar????:confused:
Click to expand...

What I said was more or less a figure of speech in regards to people not actually knowing the true ideology behind Hitler and Nazism. But rather just assuming it was Socialism based on the Nazi parties name. Hitler's party name being a complete misnomer, how shocking. :mrgreen:
 
matthew said:
You are making a lot of claims and not backing them up with examples. European style socialism produces better healthcare for cheaper, better education, better quality of life and better at just about everything else.

Something tells me you are confusing socialism with communism.
Click to expand...

something tells me, you are on another planet. what load of crap!

in case you didnt notice, we saved their asses in a couple wars. thats the only reason they still exist.

secondly, because we are peaceful people we still hold the keys to their survival. OUR MILITARY. tell those european leaders we are pulling our troops missiles etc out an those guys are gonna have to protect themselves, you will see a load of capitalists come out of the woodwork.

mat, no offense, but you are obviously very young, and very niave.
 
doc111 said:
Most of those countries aren't socialist bro. They have more elements of socialism that we do but they are not socialist countries. It doesn't have much to do with the form of govt. in western europe as much as their lifestyle. Just go visit europe and you'll quickly see what I'm talking about. If you love socialism so much go live there. I and many others don't want to see our republic turned into a nanny state. You will never convince me that form of a govt. is better. Sorry.:cry:
Click to expand...

Im not saying that this is true of you necessarily. But you point out those are not Socialist countries and I agree 100%. Those countries listed above all have a single payer universal healthcare system among other numerous socialist programs non existent here. So how come that doesn't make them "Socialist". But just a public option here supposedly makes us a socialist "nanny state"?
 
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