If Nature Is Efficient?

mjetta said:

i respectfully disagree. every aspect of nature is about effeciency otherwise it wouldnt survive for trillions of years. good discussion. but back it up

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Just because nature is about efficiency does not mean it is actually efficient.

Take photosynthesis for example since we're on a weed growing forum and it's the most important biological process on earth...

This is taken from the Arizona State University website.

"Photosynthesis and agriculture. Although photosynthesis has interested mankind for eons, rapid progress in understanding the process has come in the last few years. One of the things we have learned is that overall, photosynthesis is relatively inefficient. For example, based on the amount of carbon fixed by a field of corn during a typical growing season, only about 1 - 2% of the solar energy falling on the field is recovered as new photosynthetic products. The efficiency of uncultivated plant life is only about 0.2%. In sugar cane, which is one of the most efficient plants, about 8% of the light absorbed by the plant is preserved as chemical energy. Many plants, especially those that originate in the temperate zones such as most of the United States, undergo a process called photorespiration. This is a kind of "short circuit" of photosynthesis that wastes much of the plants' photosynthetic energy. The phenomenon of photorespiration including its function, if any, is only one of many riddles facing the photosynthesis researcher."

Time Lapse of Ants Eating A Gecko Video

this video is all i can manage right now cause im really blazed and not in a good mood. but ill do some ookin around for a rebuttle tommorow. i promise

Haha ok. I saw that video on break a second ago too. I'm just stating that even ants can be more efficient than they already are. Nature tries to be efficient but overall can stand to be more efficient.

mjetta said:

If nature is so efficient, then why did it come up with humans? seriously, i need an answer to this. The religion people argue that God created humans gave them choice and will judge them based on this choice. The athiests say humans are a product of nature. i can see both sides. but if nature is all about effieciency, (it is, ask any biologist) than why humans? in that mindset, humans are natures biggest mistake. If we were trying to survive in the most efiicient way possible, then wouldnt nature make us without choice, so we wouldnt massacre eachother and such. I dont go either way, I guess you could say im agnostic. so please dont attack me. I was just blitzed and thinking. P.S, excuse the horrible spelling.

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Didn't read the whole thread but i can tell you this..

The human has the power to do anything only with the use of its own brain. It can heal others, move objects with the mind, heal it self from any illness. and a lot of other shit.

The problem is, we are living in a time where certain people/things have detatched us from out TRUE nature. We are supposed to be the most powerful being on the face of the earth, and almsot do anything possible that the mind can think of.

But, since we are trapped in this little world of ours, only a few have gained enlightenment by truly getting intact with nature again.

these people are able to solve any math problem within seconds, are able to heal them selves from any illness, are even capable of telekinesis.

Dont undersestimate a TRUE human being.

blonddie07 said:

Didn't read the whole thread but i can tell you this..

The human has the power to do anything only with the use of its own brain. It can heal others, move objects with the mind, heal it self from any illness. and a lot of other shit.

The problem is, we are living in a time where certain people/things have detatched us from out TRUE nature. We are supposed to be the most powerful being on the face of the earth, and almsot do anything possible that the mind can think of.

But, since we are trapped in this little world of ours, only a few have gained enlightenment by truly getting intact with nature again.

these people are able to solve any math problem within seconds, are able to heal them selves from any illness, are even capable of telekinesis.

Dont undersestimate a TRUE human being.

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Well said, this is all very true. I've heard the human species was created by a far far advanced extraterrestrial species in another part of this universe eons and eons ago on another planet. And that humans have lived on other planets before ours and there are other planets out there right now with humans on it. If we are who we are as a species on this planet we call earth, who's to say there cant be another one just like us, or one thats been around long before us that created us? The media wont tell you anything, t.v is just a brain washing instrument used by the government which in turn controls nbc,cbs,abc,fox, everything, except the bbc, but of course no one in America really pays attention to the bbc.

Efficient - please remember that word & ideal of a process was created by us so whose to really say what is or isn't efficient. I mean what do we really know. All we know is what someone told you or me or them.

Dfunk said:

Efficient - please remember that word & ideal of a process was created by us so whose to really say what is or isn't efficient. I mean what do we really know. All we know is what someone told you or me or them.

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The thing is we generally base what we consider to be efficient off of what we have learned through physics (thermodynamics and energy) and chemistry, as far as the breakdown of molecules and such into energy. We can determine what is lost and what is used by applying these principles we have learned and that's how we determine what is efficient or inefficient.

I agree with you to some degree. What I'm saying is that we only know things as we percieve them so if what we learned about physics isn't correct than the very ideal of efficieny would be challenged. One thing for sure that human beings have learned is that we are not always correct sometimes many years after the fact. Do I make any sense?

You make perfect sense but that's the great thing about science. It's self correcting when new data or evidence is presented. So for right now, what we perceive and what we have tested using the scientific method all fit together (with the exception of gravity...) for right now.

Gravity in question after so long is amazing isn't it?

Yep. We just haven't found any particle or anything that we can see that allows us to make sense of how gravity works on a molecular level.

ya effiency is somewhat of a relative term. Effieciency is only what we can conceive as forms of energy. but who know what other factors out there we dont know about yet that do make things like your appendix effecient. but something that we arent familiar with yet

with religion aside, we are merly an evolution of a species that had a far greater ability to utilize cognitive reasoning and intelegence. I don't think we are a product of nature as much as we are really a product of chance. seriously we don't realize how lucky we are to be here. It is believed now that at one time there where 4 or more different walking apes(2 legs) even then they crossed paths and conflicted with one another, my point being is the species that finally evolved to be us survived the hands of evolution. Put simply we are lucky to know humanity as it is and cannot really grasp how much of an object of chance we really where 21 million years ago (miocene pd.) The Upright Ape - A New Origin of the Species: A Book that Revolutionizes Human Origins and Updates the Theory of Evolution I don't think nature makes mistakes, all things must have an end. Maybe nature was assuring its demise by formulating the existance of the human being and allowing it to evolve into the drain that it is today.

That's an interseting theory & all, but do you believe we came from apes???

I do. We can clearly see it genetically in the evolutionary time line.

Dfunk said:

That's an interseting theory & all, but do you believe we came from apes???

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We didn't come from apes.. we ARE apes..

We are apes? LOL....

blonddie07 said:

We are apes? LOL....

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Indeed.. every species in the family Hominidae (that's us, chimpanzees, gorillas, and orangutans, etc.) is a "Great Ape".

says your bullshit anthropology teacher. We are not from apes. Just like if i were to say "no im not a Jew, i am a christian" Its a theory, not fact.

And in this case, its either to believe my ancestor used to be an ape, or Human.

blonddie07 said:

says your bullshit anthropology teacher. We are not from apes. Just like if i were to say "no im not a Jew, i am a christian" Its a theory, not fact.

And in this case, its either to believe my ancestor used to be an ape, or Human.

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Umm... Do I even need to point out the ignorance in the above statement?

Here it goes...

First off, your comparison of our theory of evolution to being a jew or a christian is completely flawed on the basis that neither a jew or a christian is an actual different type of person. They are religious beliefs and nothing more. You're probably thinking of Gentile's and something else I don't know...

Second, do you even know what the definition of a theory is? A theory is a strongly supported hypothesis backed by experimentation and verifiable evidence. Do you believe in gravity? Guess what, gravity is also just a theory... It's not fact, it's a theory.

Third, we have seen micro and macro level evolution in labs now and we know that humans developed from ape-like species over millions of years. I'm still confused why this is such a big controversy since we have empirical, testable data that holds true no matter what has been thrown at it... Is it really that hard to believe we came from ape-like species a LONG time ago? We've basically proven it beyond a shadow of a doubt but haven't called it fact yet because we're learning new things about evolution on almost a daily basis. Start reading up on evolution from sites that aren't backed by major religions...