How many times do you defoliate?

Chunky Stool · May 3, 2021

harrythehat said:
Think you caught everyone napping there.
Interesting read first time I've heard of it and it could be a basturd

Hop Latent Viroid – Dark Heart Nursery

darkheartnursery.com

Sorry for busting your balls but hplvd is personal for me. I’ve had mysterious “issues” for years that truly seemed random, but there was a common theme: The more I fucked with a plant, the more likely it would “dud” at the end.
Now it all makes sense.
HPLVD has changed all of my processes.
Now I treat all my plants like they’ve got it, and sterilize accordingly when moving from plant to plant.
Even went with a fancy cleaner that works better than alcohol.

Lockedin · May 3, 2021

harrythehat said:
But people this happens in nature so why so wrong.
Plus leaves get layered 3/4/5 deep with a impenetrable canopy on my plants. I see it as having to not wanting too

In nature the plant's goal is continuation of the species - seed production. That's nature.
My goal is to smoke them & make edibles & other stuff that's not quite in the natural path of the plant.

Indoors I defol because my LEDs aren't as powerful as the sun, and training still requires some defol.
Also, I'm pretty sure that wild animals aren't grabbing leaves (the domesticated ones get leaves when they're nice) - so the plants don't need the extra.

That said - I think that leaves are also a buffer for my lack of watering skills - they carry the plant through my inconsistencies. So I keep most of them
That doesn't mean I'm kind to them - they get tucked into all kinds of positions or - last ditch - I snip off leaves that are creating too much shade or blocking circulation and maintenance areas.

PJ Diaz · May 3, 2021

Chunky Stool said:
GG4 strains can definitely be a love/hate relationship. I’ve found that they’re susceptible to mold & pests AND show intersex traits consistently.

Not sure about being more susceptible to hplvd but I wouldn’t be surprised.

They’re worth the effort though.

My Tony Green recombinant GG4 seeds are disappointing so far, but ya never know. Some of the ugly ducklings in veg can put out some dank flower.

Got some “glue sniffer” hybrids in the way that I’m super excited to try. Hot mess & hair of the dog by Twenty20.

I've never grown any GG seeds, only the real cut. I first grew it maybe 7-8 years or so ago, got rid of it, and have it back again now. As I recall GG4 was one of the first major strains to be involved in a major HPLVD outbreak. I'm pretty sure that the same nursery (Dark Heart Nursery) who "discovered" HPLVD in cannabis, is also responsible for spreading it to many gardens. Supposedly Dark Heart has it under control now, and go regular testing. I know that their local Cali competitor, Purple City Genetics says that they test their mothers 5x for HPLVD.

PJ Diaz · May 3, 2021

Chunky Stool said:
Sorry for busting your balls but hplvd is personal for me. I’ve had mysterious “issues” for years that truly seemed random, but there was a common theme: The more I fucked with a plant, the more likely it would “dud” at the end.
Now it all makes sense.
HPLVD has changed all of my processes.
Now I treat all my plants like they’ve got it, and sterilize accordingly when moving from plant to plant.
Even went with a fancy cleaner that works better than alcohol.
View attachment 4893419

If your plants already have it, the best thing you could do is destroy all plant matter, sanitize thoroughly and reset. New research shows that it can even be passed from cured bud to living plants, and passed through seeds occasionally as well.

PJ Diaz · May 3, 2021

Chunky Stool said:
Sorry for busting your balls but hplvd is personal for me. I’ve had mysterious “issues” for years that truly seemed random, but there was a common theme: The more I fucked with a plant, the more likely it would “dud” at the end.
Now it all makes sense.
HPLVD has changed all of my processes.
Now I treat all my plants like they’ve got it, and sterilize accordingly when moving from plant to plant.
Even went with a fancy cleaner that works better than alcohol.
View attachment 4893419

This thread is about when I first heard of the issue, but back then we didn't know what it was. It was just known as the "dudding virus": https://www.icmag.com/forum/marijuana-growing/marijuana-strains-and-breeding/gorilla-glue/278623-gorilla-glue-4

Chunky Stool · May 3, 2021

PJ Diaz said:
If your plants already have it, the best thing you could do is destroy all plant matter, sanitize thoroughly and reset. New research shows that it can even be passed from cured bud to living plants, and passed through seeds occasionally as well.

The biggest problem with diagnosis is the latent nature of this viroid.

I’m going to cull a few today because they are starting to look retarded. I know it’s not politically correct but the word fits.
I look at them and think “what the fuck”?
They have weak stems and usually flop over or have a major tilt. Leaves are smaller than normal and tips start turning yellow - which is slightly different than the normal light green of new growth.

Many things can stunt a plant, like PM. But plants can recover from PM.
They won’t recover from hplvd.
They’ll hang in there but progressively get a little worse right to the end.

My wife is a nurse and said it sounds a lot like HIV.
Healthcare workers protect themselves by treating everyone like they’ve got it.
No way to know for sure without definitive testing.

Good luck out there.
The fact that it can be spread through seed means very few growers are 100% safe.

PJ Diaz · May 3, 2021

Chunky Stool said:
The biggest problem with diagnosis is the latent nature of this viroid.

I’m going to cull a few today because they are starting to look retarded. I know it’s not politically correct but the word fits.
I look at them and think “what the fuck”?
They have weak stems and usually flop over or have a major tilt. Leaves are smaller than normal and tips start turning yellow - which is slightly different than the normal light green of new growth.

Many things can stunt a plant, like PM. But plants can recover from PM.
They won’t recover from hplvd.
They’ll hang in there but progressively get a little worse right to the end.

My wife is a nurse and said it sounds a lot like HIV.
Healthcare workers protect themselves by treating everyone like they’ve got it.
No way to know for sure without definitive testing.

Good luck out there.
The fact that it can be spread through seed means very few growers are 100% safe.

Yeah, I saw it in a cut of Chili Verde a year or so ago. I was able to spot it only because a couple of branches were affected first during flowering. I had a couple of buds which looked ok, but other branches were clearly dudding. Once I realized what was happening, I threw the plant outside to finish flowering, and so far as I can tell the rest of my garden wasn't affected. But as you pointed out, the "latent" nature of the virus means that I have to keep a lookout for some time after still.

xtsho · May 3, 2021

Chunky Stool said:
Sorry for busting your balls but hplvd is personal for me. I’ve had mysterious “issues” for years that truly seemed random, but there was a common theme: The more I fucked with a plant, the more likely it would “dud” at the end.
Now it all makes sense.
HPLVD has changed all of my processes.
Now I treat all my plants like they’ve got it, and sterilize accordingly when moving from plant to plant.
Even went with a fancy cleaner that works better than alcohol.
View attachment 4893419

I can't help myself.

How much does that cost? You can buy thyme oil and make that yourself.

10 gallons for under $15 is what I just calculated.

I use thyme in sprays. I have a big bush of it I use. It definitely has beneficial uses in the garden.

Chunky Stool · May 3, 2021

xtsho said:
I can't help myself.

How much does that cost? You can buy thyme oil and make that yourself.

10 gallons for under $15 is what I just calculated.

I use thyme in sprays. I have a big bush of it I use. It definitely has beneficial uses in the garden.

It was super cheap at Lowe’s on clearance.

I bought four of em. :cool:

— edit —
I even sprayed some tomatoes to see if it was toxic to plants and they were unaffected.
(Definitely not recommended, however, because it will kill the microbiome on leaf surfaces.)

PopAndSonGrows · May 3, 2021

Honestly, never a day goes by where I'm not pulling leaves. Some days more than others, there have been days i might pull one or two leaves, but always something.

Lockedin · May 3, 2021

PJ Diaz said:
Yeah, I saw it in a cut of Chili Verde a year or so ago. I was able to spot it only because a couple of branches were affected first during flowering. I had a couple of buds which looked ok, but other branches were clearly dudding. Once I realized what was happening, I threw the plant outside to finish flowering, and so far as I can tell the rest of my garden wasn't affected. But as you pointed out, the "latent" nature of the virus means that I have to keep a lookout for some time after still.

What symptoms did you observe?
Asking because I had a plant just fall apart around node 10 / 14" tall in early flower.
Looked like a severe mag def - all her sisters were better than fine.
I added Epsom to the next 3 or 4 waterings - it got worse.
I went to plain water to 10% runoff - it tried to stabilize, but never really did.
Crispy blotches that started between veins randomly expanded.
Pistils formed - about a dozen compared to the dozenS on her sisters.

Culled her a couple weeks ago in case she stress-herms.
Should have taken pics - but I didn't.

xtsho · May 3, 2021

Chunky Stool said:
It was super cheap at Lowe’s on clearance.
View attachment 4893715
I bought four of em.
— edit —
I even sprayed some tomatoes to see if it was toxic to plants and they were unaffected.
(Definitely not recommended, however, because it will kill the microbiome on leaf surfaces.)

Can't beat that.

Would you have paid the original $19 a gallon?

PJ Diaz · May 4, 2021

Lockedin said:
What symptoms did you observe?
Asking because I had a plant just fall apart around node 10 / 14" tall in early flower.
Looked like a severe mag def - all her sisters were better than fine.
I added Epsom to the next 3 or 4 waterings - it got worse.
I went to plain water to 10% runoff - it tried to stabilize, but never really did.
Crispy blotches that started between veins randomly expanded.
Pistils formed - about a dozen compared to the dozenS on her sisters.

Culled her a couple weeks ago in case she stress-herms.
Should have taken pics - but I didn't.

It just got really weird in flower. This was supposed to be an elite breeder cut, but it didn't act that way. It flowered intermittently, lost green real early, and didn't have much tricombs. The thing that made me think it was HPLVD though it that some branches were affected more than others, which is very typical of HPLVD when it first starts to show. Here's a pic of the bud in question towards later flowering. The other plants next to it were great. I don't have any cuts that were from that grow anymore, just too risky that they may have been contaminated.

PJ Diaz · May 4, 2021

This plant from some random freebee seed was growing next to it, looking much better..

Lockedin · May 4, 2021

PJ Diaz said:
This plant from some random freebee seed was growing next to it, looking much better..

Thanks! Not what I wanted to hear - but Thanks!
it sounds like that or something similar happened to me.

All her sisters are the same strain and have zero problems.

Chunky Stool · May 4, 2021

xtsho said:
Can't beat that.

Would you have paid the original $19 a gallon?

Only if it had been recommended by someone I trust.
I'm cheap.

I bet Lowe's lost money on that deal. (Standard retail markup is 100%.)

It's a good product and the smell isn't offensive.

There was some mold around a window in my garage and this stuff nuked it, no problem-o.

PJ Diaz · May 4, 2021

Lockedin said:
Thanks! Not what I wanted to hear - but Thanks!
it sounds like that or something similar happened to me.

All her sisters are the same strain and have zero problems.

Have you brought clones into your garden from the outside, or is everything from seed? While possible, it's much less likely to get it from seed. It's typically passed through clones between gardens like herpes.

Lockedin · May 4, 2021

PJ Diaz said:
Have you brought clones into your garden from the outside, or is everything from seed? While possible, it's much less likely to get it from seed. It's typically passed through clones between gardens like herpes.

All seed so far - maybe just a bad bean....

goofy81 · Jun 21, 2021

I defoliate from beneath my canopy until the bottom leaf gets some light.
Only areas where i have to.

Let me say defoliation WON'T help unless your canopy is REALLY thick and fully covered.

PJ Diaz · Jun 22, 2021

I did a defoliation yesterday, and still have a lot of leaves..

How many times do you defoliate?

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