how does my grow flow

Discussion in 'Drain-To-Waste Hydro' started by im4satori, Jun 7, 2015.


    im4satori Well-Known Member

    in the middle is the book I previously spoke of

    top page shows dry salt mix for flower (macro)
    bottom page shows dry salt micro mix for flower (micro)
    theres not enough space in the program to get them all in one page so I split the micro and macro

    top right corner of the page shows how many gallons this formula will make = 1920 gallons of finished solution

    im4satori Well-Known Member

    for this example I will use 15 gallon stock containers

    stock container A...15 gallons
    Calcium nitrate
    potassium chloride
    potassium nitrate

    stock container B... 15 gallons
    everything else

    finish solution
    mix 1 ounce of container A and one ounce container B per gallon

    this is how I mix it for my doser since the ratio is 1 ounce per gallon 1:128

    im4satori Well-Known Member

    you could make the same exact consintrated formula only using a 5 gallon stock tank =
    finish solution
    10ml solution A and 10ml solution B per gallon

    so its basically 1/3 more concentrated so it requires 2/3 less solution to achieve the desired finished ppm or EC

    im4satori Well-Known Member

    so speaking of the 5 gallon stock mix

    10ml part A 10ml part B would be an EC of 0.8

    if you wanted to feed more im guessing 1.2 EC would be maybe 12 to 15ml per gallon

    im4satori Well-Known Member

    one more thing
    this formula is mastered to my water source ph

    the pekacid product adds p and K and also lowers ph much the same as phosphoric acid

    my source water is about ph 7.2 and 0.6grams/gallon pekacid brings my ph down to 5.5
    if your source water is soft and your ph already low then you would need to use less pekacid and more monopotassium phosphate to get you Phospurus
    ttystikk likes this.

    im4satori Well-Known Member

    goodnight for now
    I will check back tomorrow
    ttystikk likes this.

    im4satori Well-Known Member

    I guess I must have missed this way back when...

    this looks like mine but mine said it was for chickens.. but that's about what the less expensive ones cost.... all said and done your looking at $750 to 1000 to get it set up using 2 dosers.... by the time you buy the filters and gauges and plumbing fittings
    ttystikk likes this.

    im4satori Well-Known Member

    looking at what I was feeding when this thread started to now

    I lowered the iron by more than half... the high iron was locking out other micros

    using the new pekacid product I was able to eliminate the use of sulfuric acid lowering the sulfur in my ratio

    I also lowered my P and K and Mg and Ca

    I suspect I have calcium in my source water making up the difference because I see no sigs of Ca def

    thus far I have seen no signs of K def and lowering the K makes Mg more available so I have less issues chasing the never ending taco leaf.... everyones always chasing Mg def but what if its actually not a lack of Mg but instead the K getting in its way

    plus... I want to start foliar feeding during the first few weeks of flower using potassium silicate .... so if im on the low end the foliar feeding will make it up
    ttystikk likes this.

    ttystikk Well-Known Member

    I use epsom salt and in peak bloom I add potassium sulfate, both in addition to some S in my hydroponic nutrient mix, all to ensure plenty of sulfur for resin and terpene production.
    since1991 likes this.

    im4satori Well-Known Member

    so you feel like extra sulfur help ah

    long time ago I ran sulfur at about 80ppm
    noticed nothing different except my pot tasted like mineral.... but that may have been the result of over all feeding and not directly from the sulfur

    also I try to keep the sulfur and calcium to a minimum... if I had lower ph in source water I could also slightly lower my P

    ttystikk Well-Known Member

    Use sulfuric acid. :bigjoint:

    im4satori Well-Known Member

    I did the sulfuric for years and still do use it in my veg mix and veg res

    my approach has been to reduce the build up of precipitates in the medium reducing the constant need to flush

    I want my rockwool water test samples to have an EC that is at least close to what im feeding

    if im feeding an EC 1.0 and my rockwool samples are at EC 1.5 then I gotta flush volumes of water thru the cubes to reduce the EC

    if im feeding EC 0.8 and 6 weeks into flower my rockwool samples are somewhere between 0.7 and 0.9 im a happy camper and so are my plants

    when you look at what minerals cause precipitates or as I like to call it, a build up within the medium, its the chemical reaction between calcium, sulfur, phosphorus that cause the build up

    that build up is hard to get flushed so many use sugar water like clearex... yes sugar will add carbs and is fine for microbes in soil or maybe coco but it will also add potential for bacteria to build in an inorganic medium like rockwool so I avoid it

    if I could I would lower the P to 50ppm but that would require more sulfur or less K to achieve and I think im already at the bottom of my K needs with 120ppm

    I tried flowering with less than 50 ppm and they plants asked for more
    I understand the advanced nutrient line has a low P mix .... if I mixed advanced at an EC of 1.0 id only have something like 38ppm of P
    I assume that since most people are constantly adding phosphoric acid that they don't see P def from the added P in the acid

    from memory.. I think about 30mls of phospuric aicid purchased at hydro store will add 12ppm of P to 30gallon res so if your average person only adds 30ml of ph down in the res within 1 week (everyone does) then theyre getting 50ppm of P

    if you happen to have soft water and your source water is ph below 6.0 ... you might see P def using advanced nutrient since you wouldn't be using much acid

    am I rambling........
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2016

    im4satori Well-Known Member

    in the winter its easy to keep the room cool so I feel ok about running the less K
    if it was summer and I had heat issues I might raise the K to 130ppm
    most store bought formulas have much higher amounts of K

    but... on the other hand it is most commonly excepted that you want your K:Ca:Mg ratios to be something between
    3:2:1 and 4:2:1 ratio
    I prefer the 3;2;1

    so for example if your K is 150ppm you might want Ca 100ppm and Mg50ppm

    my K is at 120ppm so I only need 60ppm Ca and 30ppm Mg

    if I jack up the K I also have to jack up the Calcium, magnesium, nitrogen, and sulfur to achieve my 3;2;1 ratio

    im4satori Well-Known Member

    the ratio is said to be more important than the quantity

    by reducing all that extra ppms that the plants not using ... im not chasing Magnesium def from the high K and my S

    everyones always chasing magnesium def... so they add more magnesium... hmmm try lowering the K
    ttystikk likes this.

    im4satori Well-Known Member

    I wanted to go back to point out something I hadn't before and should of ...this picture of the micro nute profile shown wasn't meant to be used for concentrate mixtures... it was intended of direct addition measurements ...
    the chelated micro nutrients wont mix in concentrate........

    if mixing concentrate the std forms of micros are need.. not chelated (except in the case of Fe)

    im4satori Well-Known Member

    i have changed my micro profile significantly since that post

    I was modeling my micros after peters S.T.E.M micro mix ...

    I always had this mild yet nagging yellowing on the newest growth...

    I started comparing the micros between peters, advanced 3 part and GH 3 part

    im still trying to sorting out whats whats

    at first I thought it was zinc def.... possible due to high amounts of chelated Fe blocking zinc

    so then I lowered my Fe and rasied the zinc ... well I made a mistake with the decimal point and eneded up feeding a huge amount of zinc... strange thing was the plants didn't seem to mind much and the yellowing got worse but still not real bad

    so for now .. I have the zinc set down to 0.2ppm and the Fe lowered 1.3 ppm

    comparing at my EC to GH which would be about 1.0ppm and advanced 0.75ppm

    im4satori Well-Known Member

    I have considered that my P might be on the high side during early flower and maybe the early high P is blocking either Fe or zinc and later in flower when the P demand is higher the imbalance seems to disapear
    ttystikk likes this.

    im4satori Well-Known Member

    phosphorus, zinc, and iron compete

    similar to

    potassium, magnesium, and Calcium
    ttystikk likes this.

    im4satori Well-Known Member

    the other potential cause for my slight yellowing on new growth could also be an Fe def from the accidental over doing the zinc...
    at the time I had meant to set my zinc to 0.1 ppm and accicdentally set it at 1.0ppm so its possible the high zinc could be competeing with the Fe

    the peter stem has very high zinc but also had very high Fe also... itll be interesting to find the bottom for each requirement or what ratio works best

    last night I foliar sprayed with Fe 2ppm to see what the effect would be... looking at them today they do look less yellowed ..
    im going to wait until tomorrow and spray Fe on them again .. then if they continue to look greener then I will raise the Fe in my ratio up to 1.5 and see how that sorts out
    since1991 and ttystikk like this.

    since1991 Well-Known Member

    Thats what i thought from your initial post. Stubborn Iron. Its there....but likes to play dumb even with on point growers with a dialed nutrient program.
    im4satori likes this.

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