here we go with the jew hating

dukeofbaja

New Member
I hope my internet connection lasts long enough for me to comment.

I am a full supporter of Israel's right to exist, and support the argument that Arab nations would like to see it wiped off the face of the earth. But to say all Muslims want this is a mistake, and to say Israel must be defended no matter what is a mistake as well. Israel did just cock slap us on a diplomatic mission, after all.

Fuck an A, it is all too complicated to try to express my full full opinion on a connection this bad. 10 days or so and I'll be back though...El Paso is beautiful this time of year
 

abe23

Active Member
Obviously there some people reflexively criticize israel no matter what because they don't like jews or don't think the state of israel has a legitimate right to exist, especially europeans. But to go from there to arguing that ANY criticism of israel is anti-semitic is idiotic but I'm not really surprised that this is what you think, rick. But there's obviously no room for nuance in that angry little head of yours....
 

tinyTURTLE

Well-Known Member
Obviously there some people reflexively criticize israel no matter what because they don't like jews or don't think the state of israel has a legitimate right to exist, especially europeans. But to go from there to arguing that ANY criticism of israel is anti-semitic is idiotic but I'm not really surprised that this is what you think, rick. But there's obviously no room for nuance in that angry little head of yours....

Abe, babe. I reflexively nothing.
I used to be as pro israel as the next guy.
That is until I statred learning the truth.
And paying a little attention to history. I am anything but an antisemite, there is no reason to be. I have met and do know several jewish people, some of my families best, oldest and most trusted friends are jews (like my mom's friend who bailed me out of jail one time). Somehow I am able to separate the people from the 'nation'. I see the things that israel does and the policies they espouse and mostly what i think is 'who the hell do they think they are?'. Then i remember that Yitzak Rabim was murdered by an israeli jew because he had agreed to NOT push certain borders out and to NOT buldoze people homes.
It's a mess, and israel is the mess-maker.
 

ganjaluvr

Well-Known Member
I'm a full blooded Italian.. born and raised in Jerzey...

alot of people say.. ohhh.. well since your Italian.. you must be jewish right?


Wrong.


I'm not a jew.. and nobody in my family is Jewish either.
 

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
So now people are claiming that Israel didn't exist prior to 1948. Time for a history lesson.

The term “Palestine” is believed to be derived from the Philistines, an Aegean people who, in the 12th Century B.C.E., settled along the Mediterranean coastal plain of what are now Israel and the Gaza Strip. In the second century C.E., after crushing the last Jewish revolt, the Romans first applied the name Palaestina to Judea (the southern portion of what is now called the West Bank) in an attempt to minimize Jewish identification with the land of Israel. The Arabic word Filastin is derived from this Latin name.3
The Hebrews entered the Land of Israel about 1300 B.C.E., living under a tribal confederation until being united under the first monarch, King Saul. The second king, David, established Jerusalem as the capital around 1000 B.C.E. David’s son, Solomon, built the Temple soon thereafter and consolidated the military, administrative and religious functions of the kingdom. The nation was divided under Solomon’s son, with the northern kingdom (Israel) lasting until 722 B.C.E., when the Assyrians destroyed it, and the southern kingdom (Judah) surviving until the Babylonian conquest in 586 B.C.E. The Jewish people enjoyed brief periods of sovereignty afterward before most Jews were finally driven from their homeland in 135 C.E.
Jewish independence in the Land of Israel lasted for more than 400 years. This is much longer than Americans have enjoyed independence in what has become known as the United States.4 In fact, if not for foreign conquerors, Israel would be more than 3,000 years old today.
Palestine was never an exclusively Arab country, although Arabic gradually became the language of most of the population after the Muslim invasions of the seventh century. No independent Arab or Palestinian state ever existed in Palestine. When the distinguished Arab-American historian, Princeton University Prof. Philip Hitti, testified against partition before the Anglo-American Committee in 1946, he said: “There is no such thing as ‘Palestine’ in history, absolutely not.”5
Prior to partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolution was adopted:
We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.6
In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine: “There is no such country as Palestine! ‘Palestine’ is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria.7
The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations submitted a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 that said, Palestine was part of the Province of Syriaand that, politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity. A few years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri, later the chairman of the PLO, told the Security Council: “It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria.”8
Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post-World War I phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until after the 1967 Six-Day War and Israel’s capture of the West Bank.


Now, I have a question to those who claim that Isael has no right to exist. This is evidently an opinion based on the notion that it was taken by force in 1948.

Seeing as every country on Earth was taken by force at one time or another - what other countries have no right to exist?

And also, even if what you are saying is true, what would you do with the 7.5 million people living there?
 

tinyTURTLE

Well-Known Member
So now people are claiming that Israel didn't exist prior to 1948. Time for a history lesson.

The term “Palestine” is believed to be derived from the Philistines, an Aegean people who, in the 12th Century B.C.E., settled along the Mediterranean coastal plain of what are now Israel and the Gaza Strip. In the second century C.E., after crushing the last Jewish revolt, the Romans first applied the name Palaestina to Judea (the southern portion of what is now called the West Bank) in an attempt to minimize Jewish identification with the land of Israel. The Arabic word Filastin is derived from this Latin name.3
The Hebrews entered the Land of Israel about 1300 B.C.E., living under a tribal confederation until being united under the first monarch, King Saul. The second king, David, established Jerusalem as the capital around 1000 B.C.E. David’s son, Solomon, built the Temple soon thereafter and consolidated the military, administrative and religious functions of the kingdom. The nation was divided under Solomon’s son, with the northern kingdom (Israel) lasting until 722 B.C.E., when the Assyrians destroyed it, and the southern kingdom (Judah) surviving until the Babylonian conquest in 586 B.C.E. The Jewish people enjoyed brief periods of sovereignty afterward before most Jews were finally driven from their homeland in 135 C.E.
Jewish independence in the Land of Israel lasted for more than 400 years. This is much longer than Americans have enjoyed independence in what has become known as the United States.4 In fact, if not for foreign conquerors, Israel would be more than 3,000 years old today.
Palestine was never an exclusively Arab country, although Arabic gradually became the language of most of the population after the Muslim invasions of the seventh century. No independent Arab or Palestinian state ever existed in Palestine. When the distinguished Arab-American historian, Princeton University Prof. Philip Hitti, testified against partition before the Anglo-American Committee in 1946, he said: “There is no such thing as ‘Palestine’ in history, absolutely not.”5
Prior to partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolution was adopted:
We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.6
In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine: “There is no such country as Palestine! ‘Palestine’ is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria.7
The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations submitted a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 that said, Palestine was part of the Province of Syriaand that, politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity. A few years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri, later the chairman of the PLO, told the Security Council: “It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria.”8
Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post-World War I phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until after the 1967 Six-Day War and Israel’s capture of the West Bank.


Now, I have a question to those who claim that Isael has no right to exist. This is evidently an opinion based on the notion that it was taken by force in 1948.

Seeing as every country on Earth was taken by force at one time or another - what other countries have no right to exist?

And also, even if what you are saying is true, what would you do with the 7.5 million people living there?
So it was never palestine, you admit it hasn't been israel for 400 years. It's syria. Fine.

i would move them to texas, the climate is just about identical. also, people from louisiana, newmexico and oklahoma would not bother to lauch missiles at them. We could rename Dallas New Jerusalem and it would be a big gift.
 

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
lmao

So let me get this straight, the entity which was instrumental in the creation of a Jewish state is Anti Semitic

And the Israeli forces which have committed war crimes are Gandhi

It's so easy to copy paste pro Israel websites, but it's your emotional investment in the issue which has impaired your judgement

BBC and PBS (1998 ). "The Arab Israeli Conflict - part 2 : Israeli massacres 1948", The Fifty Years War.

Yes I know BBC and PBS are both anti semitic lol

Gelber, Yoav (2006). Palestine 1948. See Appendix II: "Propaganda as History: What Happened at Deir Yassin?"

Written by an Israeli

Morris, Benny (1986). "Operation Dani and the Palestinian Exodus from Lydda and Ramle in 1948", Middle East Journal, Vol 40, issue 1, pp. 82–109.

Middle East Journal is the oldest and one of the most diverse peer reviewed journal on mid east issues, I would love to see you discredit it

You wanted evidence, well that is irrefutable

WAKE THE FUCK UP PLEASE
Yep, and the Jews use the blood of Christian children to make matzos. Has it occurred to you that you are just repeating Arab propaganda? Did you know that in the last conflict in Lebanon they were carting around the bodies of dead children (whom they may have killed themselves) and staging videos of them pulling these bodies from bombed buildings? The Arabs use propaganda and useful idiots such as yourself as their main weapon. It is you who need to wake up.


BIG LIES THAT HAVE CAUSED UNTOLD MISERY


"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it".

Tragically, the well-known quotation by Hitler's chief propagandist, Joseph Goebbels has proven to be valid time and again. Goebbels was probably the most influential expert in using lies and deceit to motivate an entire nation initially towards hubris, and eventually to abject destruction
His advice on effective propaganda techniques has also been successfully adopted. He wrote "The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over." Anyone familiar with the Arab-Israel conflict will recognize how this lesson has been successfully applied. Raise any problem and the answer is "the occupation". Mention terror and the immediate solution offered is "end the occupation", ignoring the indisputable fact that terror against Jews was commonplace long before the occupation.
The universality of Goebbels' BIG LIE rule is evident from the straight line that can be drawn from the Protocols of Zion to Dreyfus, Mein Kampf, Deir Yassin, Jenin and Al Dura. Let's take a closer look at Deir Yassin and Al Dura.
Deir Yassin
The false story of atrocities in the battle for Deir Yassin in1948 is a typical example of a BIG LIE demonizing Israel, based on fabricated evidence. On April 12, 1948 Dana Schmidt wrote a "special to the New York Times" story about a massacre and rapes committed by Jews at Deir Yassin. The story, attributed to Dr. Hussein Khalidi, secretary of the Palestine Arab Higher Committee at the time, was taken at face value and spread like wildfire around the world. Even the Jewish Agency believed it and expressed horror and disgust.
But, and this is a big BUT, startling indisputable evidence came to light in 1998 revealing that the story of a massacre and rapes was a complete fabrication. Unlike the immediate spread of the accusation, this refutation was and remains completely ignored, pointing to the dangerous penchant, even among some respectable mainstream media, academics and influential politicians, to ignore readily available, credible evidence that conflicts with their biased preconceived opinions.
The evidence of fabrication is indisputable because it originates from none other than the person who prepared the original story, Hazem Nusseibeh, who was an editor of the Palestine Broadcasting Service in 1948.
The video clip that can be viewed by clicking on the link at the top of this page is an extract from a a 1998 interview with Nusseibeh in a BBC series "Israel and the Arabs: the 50 year Conflict".
While explaining the flight of Arabs and their failure in the 1948 war to the BBC, Nusseibeh indiscreetly admitted that on the direct instructions of Hussein Khalidi, he had fabricated the allegations of a massacre and rapes. He told that Khalidi said to him: "We must make the most of this" and that they therefore embroidered the press release with fictional allegations that the children of Deir Yassin were murdered and pregnant women were raped, though neither ever happened. Their intention was to encourage the Arab countries to join in the battles soon to begin. He added that these atrocity stories were "our biggest mistake," because Palestinians fled in terror and left the country in huge numbers after hearing them. This statement adds a new facet to research about the reasons so many Arabs fled in 1948. See also http://www.2nd-thoughts.org/id38.html
According to Nusseibeh, Khalidi said to him: "We must make the most of this" and the story was created in collusion with survivors of Deir Yassin and Khalidi. The press release stated that the children of Deir Yassin were murdered and pregnant women were raped, though neither ever happened.
In the same TV program, a former resident of Deir Yassin confirmed there were no rapes but that Khalidi convinced them they had to say there were. "We said, there was no rape." But Khalidi said, "We have to say this, so the Arab armies will come to liberate Palestine from the Jews".
Although this evidence has been available in publicly available archives since 1998, it has been almost universally ignored. For example On November 28, 2001 in an article "The Sharon files" The Guardian, repeated the fabrication in referring to "the Palestinian village where 254 villagers were massacred in April 1948, in the most spectacular single attack in the conquest of Palestine".
Ignoring the readily available contrary evidence, Deir Yassin continues to be a symbol of Jewish barbarity and it is regularly quoted by anti-Israel boycott activists. The myth is kept alive by an organization called "Deir Yassin Remembered", dedicated to perpetuating the fiction of a massacre
It is relevant to recall that this occurred in April 1948, before the state of Israel was declared. Many have been led to believe that Deir Yassin was a quiet village just outside Jerusalem, whereas in fact it was a heavily armed Arab village harboring some foreign militants who together with the villagers were attacking nearby Jewish neighborhoods and traffic on the Jerusalem-Tel Aviv highway.
If Deir Yassin was in fact a quiet village, it would have enjoyed the same fortune as other quiet villages such as the nearby village of Abu Ghosh, which remained neutral in 1948. In an article in the Jerusalem Post in 1997, Sam Orbaum quoted Mohammed Abu Ghosh as saying, "What we did, we did for Abu Ghosh, for nobody else. Others who lost their land, hated us then, but now all over the Arab world, many people see we were right. If everyone did what we did, there'd be no refugee problem . . . And if we were traitors? Look where we are, look where they are."
Deir Yassin was probably one of the earliest examples of the effectiveness of the well- funded Arab propaganda machine and the ineptness of Israel's PR response. It was certainly an example of Israel's mea culpa syndrome, admitting guilt where none exists, that continues to this day. The fabricated story was so convincing that even the Zionist Leaders accepted it.

Frequent reference is made in to a statement by then agriculture, minister Aharon Cizling, in support of the claim that atrocities did take place. In a cabinet meeting, Cizling said, "Jews too have behaved like Nazis and my entire being is shaken". His outburst should be seen, not as an admission of guilt, but as a manifestation of Israeli sensitivity to allegations, albeit false, of Jewish atrocities. He was so deeply moved by the fabricated reports of the kind of behavior that is not tolerated in the IDF doctrine, that he used the exaggerated and offensive Nazi comparison.
Al Dura
There have been several successful emulations of the Deir Yassin BIG LIE over the years. Notable among these was the Muhammed al Durah affair in which the 12 year old boy became the symbol of the intifada when he was caught with his father in the crossfire between IDF soldiers and Palestinians at Netzarim Junction. In pictures filmed by a Palestinian cameraman and broadcast by French television, he is allegedly seen shot and killed.
Israeli physicist, Nahum Shahaf, examined the evidence and claimed it was a hoax. Among those whom Shahaf convinced, was Professor Richard Landes of Boston University who saw the original unedited footage of the scene and produced a three-part documentary about the event, first Pallywood, a study of systemic staging of "news" by "the street" acting for Palestinian cameramen, (see: http://tinyurl.com/ydleswh), then a detailed analysis of the evidence in Al Durah, Birth of an Icon (http://tinyurl.com/yaf4xvy), and finally a study of the hoax’s disastrous impact on global culture, Icon of Hatred (http://tinyurl.com/yajvjmo)
Meanwhile, Philippe Karsenty, head of a French media watchdog group, accused France2 and their Middle East correspondent, Charles Enderlin, of broadcasting staged footage. France2 sued Karsenty for defamation, and won the initial round. Professor Landes' thorough work played a significant role in the eventual reversal of the judgment on appeal in French court, ruling that Karsenty was not guilty of defaming Enderlin and France2. Al Dura nevertheless remains an international icon of Israel's supposed cruelty confirming Goebbels contention that If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it
What Hazem Nusseibeh told the BBC about Deir Yassin
The video focuses on an interview with Hazem Nusseibeh, a member of one of Jerusalem's most prominent Arab families. In 1948 he was an editor of the Palestine Broadcasting Service's Arabic news.
In this interview with the BBC he admits that in 1948 he was instructed by Hussein Khalidi, a prominent Palestinian Arab leader, to fabricate claims of atrocities at Deir Yassin in order to encourage Arab regimes to invade the expected Jewish state. He made this damming admission in explaining why the Arabs failed in the 1948 war. He said "this was our biggest mistake", because Palestinians fled in terror and left the country in huge numbers after hearing the atrocity claims.
Nusseibeh describes an encounter at the Jaffa Gate of Jerusalem's Old City with Deir Yassin survivors and Palestinian leaders, including Hussein Khalidi... 'I asked Dr. Khalidi how we should cover the story,'. He said, "We must make the most of this. So we wrote a press release stating that at Deir Yassin children were murdered, pregnant women were raped, all sorts of atrocities"
In the video clip Abu Mahmud, who was a Dir Yassin resident in 1948, told the BBC that the villagers protested against the atrocity claims: We said, "There was no rape. But Khalidi said, We have to say this, so the Arab armies will come to liberate Palestine from the Jews."
This false press statement was released to New York Times correspondent, Dana Schmidt leading to an article in the New York Times on April 12, 1948, claiming that a massacre took place at Deir Yassin that was reprinted worldwide and cited even in Israel as proof of Israeli atrocities
Dr. Hazem Nusseibeh was a representative of Jordan at the Mixed Armistice Commission and he was Minister of Foreign Affairs.He was also the Permanent Ambassador of Jordan to the UN and has authored several books, including The Ideas of Arab Nationalism, Palestine and the United Nations and A History of Modern Jordan.
Contact Maurice Ostroff by email at [email protected]
and visit his website: http://maurice-ostroff.tripod.com


 

tinyTURTLE

Well-Known Member
Yep, and the Jews use the blood of Christian children to make matzos. Has it occurred to you that you are just repeating Arab propaganda? Did you know that in the last conflict in Lebanon they were carting around the bodies of dead children (whom they may have killed themselves) and staging videos of them pulling these bodies from bombed buildings? The Arabs use propaganda and useful idiots such as yourself as their main weapon. It is you who need to wake up.


BIG LIES THAT HAVE CAUSED UNTOLD MISERY


"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it".

Tragically, the well-known quotation by Hitler's chief propagandist, Joseph Goebbels has proven to be valid time and again. Goebbels was probably the most influential expert in using lies and deceit to motivate an entire nation initially towards hubris, and eventually to abject destruction
His advice on effective propaganda techniques has also been successfully adopted. He wrote "The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over." Anyone familiar with the Arab-Israel conflict will recognize how this lesson has been successfully applied. Raise any problem and the answer is "the occupation". Mention terror and the immediate solution offered is "end the occupation", ignoring the indisputable fact that terror against Jews was commonplace long before the occupation.
The universality of Goebbels' BIG LIE rule is evident from the straight line that can be drawn from the Protocols of Zion to Dreyfus, Mein Kampf, Deir Yassin, Jenin and Al Dura. Let's take a closer look at Deir Yassin and Al Dura.
Deir Yassin
The false story of atrocities in the battle for Deir Yassin in1948 is a typical example of a BIG LIE demonizing Israel, based on fabricated evidence. On April 12, 1948 Dana Schmidt wrote a "special to the New York Times" story about a massacre and rapes committed by Jews at Deir Yassin. The story, attributed to Dr. Hussein Khalidi, secretary of the Palestine Arab Higher Committee at the time, was taken at face value and spread like wildfire around the world. Even the Jewish Agency believed it and expressed horror and disgust.
But, and this is a big BUT, startling indisputable evidence came to light in 1998 revealing that the story of a massacre and rapes was a complete fabrication. Unlike the immediate spread of the accusation, this refutation was and remains completely ignored, pointing to the dangerous penchant, even among some respectable mainstream media, academics and influential politicians, to ignore readily available, credible evidence that conflicts with their biased preconceived opinions.
The evidence of fabrication is indisputable because it originates from none other than the person who prepared the original story, Hazem Nusseibeh, who was an editor of the Palestine Broadcasting Service in 1948.
The video clip that can be viewed by clicking on the link at the top of this page is an extract from a a 1998 interview with Nusseibeh in a BBC series "Israel and the Arabs: the 50 year Conflict".
While explaining the flight of Arabs and their failure in the 1948 war to the BBC, Nusseibeh indiscreetly admitted that on the direct instructions of Hussein Khalidi, he had fabricated the allegations of a massacre and rapes. He told that Khalidi said to him: "We must make the most of this" and that they therefore embroidered the press release with fictional allegations that the children of Deir Yassin were murdered and pregnant women were raped, though neither ever happened. Their intention was to encourage the Arab countries to join in the battles soon to begin. He added that these atrocity stories were "our biggest mistake," because Palestinians fled in terror and left the country in huge numbers after hearing them. This statement adds a new facet to research about the reasons so many Arabs fled in 1948. See also http://www.2nd-thoughts.org/id38.html
According to Nusseibeh, Khalidi said to him: "We must make the most of this" and the story was created in collusion with survivors of Deir Yassin and Khalidi. The press release stated that the children of Deir Yassin were murdered and pregnant women were raped, though neither ever happened.
In the same TV program, a former resident of Deir Yassin confirmed there were no rapes but that Khalidi convinced them they had to say there were. "We said, there was no rape." But Khalidi said, "We have to say this, so the Arab armies will come to liberate Palestine from the Jews".
Although this evidence has been available in publicly available archives since 1998, it has been almost universally ignored. For example On November 28, 2001 in an article "The Sharon files" The Guardian, repeated the fabrication in referring to "the Palestinian village where 254 villagers were massacred in April 1948, in the most spectacular single attack in the conquest of Palestine".
Ignoring the readily available contrary evidence, Deir Yassin continues to be a symbol of Jewish barbarity and it is regularly quoted by anti-Israel boycott activists. The myth is kept alive by an organization called "Deir Yassin Remembered", dedicated to perpetuating the fiction of a massacre
It is relevant to recall that this occurred in April 1948, before the state of Israel was declared. Many have been led to believe that Deir Yassin was a quiet village just outside Jerusalem, whereas in fact it was a heavily armed Arab village harboring some foreign militants who together with the villagers were attacking nearby Jewish neighborhoods and traffic on the Jerusalem-Tel Aviv highway.
If Deir Yassin was in fact a quiet village, it would have enjoyed the same fortune as other quiet villages such as the nearby village of Abu Ghosh, which remained neutral in 1948. In an article in the Jerusalem Post in 1997, Sam Orbaum quoted Mohammed Abu Ghosh as saying, "What we did, we did for Abu Ghosh, for nobody else. Others who lost their land, hated us then, but now all over the Arab world, many people see we were right. If everyone did what we did, there'd be no refugee problem . . . And if we were traitors? Look where we are, look where they are."
Deir Yassin was probably one of the earliest examples of the effectiveness of the well- funded Arab propaganda machine and the ineptness of Israel's PR response. It was certainly an example of Israel's mea culpa syndrome, admitting guilt where none exists, that continues to this day. The fabricated story was so convincing that even the Zionist Leaders accepted it.

Frequent reference is made in to a statement by then agriculture, minister Aharon Cizling, in support of the claim that atrocities did take place. In a cabinet meeting, Cizling said, "Jews too have behaved like Nazis and my entire being is shaken". His outburst should be seen, not as an admission of guilt, but as a manifestation of Israeli sensitivity to allegations, albeit false, of Jewish atrocities. He was so deeply moved by the fabricated reports of the kind of behavior that is not tolerated in the IDF doctrine, that he used the exaggerated and offensive Nazi comparison.
Al Dura
There have been several successful emulations of the Deir Yassin BIG LIE over the years. Notable among these was the Muhammed al Durah affair in which the 12 year old boy became the symbol of the intifada when he was caught with his father in the crossfire between IDF soldiers and Palestinians at Netzarim Junction. In pictures filmed by a Palestinian cameraman and broadcast by French television, he is allegedly seen shot and killed.
Israeli physicist, Nahum Shahaf, examined the evidence and claimed it was a hoax. Among those whom Shahaf convinced, was Professor Richard Landes of Boston University who saw the original unedited footage of the scene and produced a three-part documentary about the event, first Pallywood, a study of systemic staging of "news" by "the street" acting for Palestinian cameramen, (see: http://tinyurl.com/ydleswh), then a detailed analysis of the evidence in Al Durah, Birth of an Icon (http://tinyurl.com/yaf4xvy), and finally a study of the hoax’s disastrous impact on global culture, Icon of Hatred (http://tinyurl.com/yajvjmo)
Meanwhile, Philippe Karsenty, head of a French media watchdog group, accused France2 and their Middle East correspondent, Charles Enderlin, of broadcasting staged footage. France2 sued Karsenty for defamation, and won the initial round. Professor Landes' thorough work played a significant role in the eventual reversal of the judgment on appeal in French court, ruling that Karsenty was not guilty of defaming Enderlin and France2. Al Dura nevertheless remains an international icon of Israel's supposed cruelty confirming Goebbels contention that If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it
What Hazem Nusseibeh told the BBC about Deir Yassin
The video focuses on an interview with Hazem Nusseibeh, a member of one of Jerusalem's most prominent Arab families. In 1948 he was an editor of the Palestine Broadcasting Service's Arabic news.
In this interview with the BBC he admits that in 1948 he was instructed by Hussein Khalidi, a prominent Palestinian Arab leader, to fabricate claims of atrocities at Deir Yassin in order to encourage Arab regimes to invade the expected Jewish state. He made this damming admission in explaining why the Arabs failed in the 1948 war. He said "this was our biggest mistake", because Palestinians fled in terror and left the country in huge numbers after hearing the atrocity claims.
Nusseibeh describes an encounter at the Jaffa Gate of Jerusalem's Old City with Deir Yassin survivors and Palestinian leaders, including Hussein Khalidi... 'I asked Dr. Khalidi how we should cover the story,'. He said, "We must make the most of this. So we wrote a press release stating that at Deir Yassin children were murdered, pregnant women were raped, all sorts of atrocities"
In the video clip Abu Mahmud, who was a Dir Yassin resident in 1948, told the BBC that the villagers protested against the atrocity claims: We said, "There was no rape. But Khalidi said, We have to say this, so the Arab armies will come to liberate Palestine from the Jews."
This false press statement was released to New York Times correspondent, Dana Schmidt leading to an article in the New York Times on April 12, 1948, claiming that a massacre took place at Deir Yassin that was reprinted worldwide and cited even in Israel as proof of Israeli atrocities
Dr. Hazem Nusseibeh was a representative of Jordan at the Mixed Armistice Commission and he was Minister of Foreign Affairs.He was also the Permanent Ambassador of Jordan to the UN and has authored several books, including The Ideas of Arab Nationalism, Palestine and the United Nations and A History of Modern Jordan.
Contact Maurice Ostroff by email at [email protected]
and visit his website: http://maurice-ostroff.tripod.com
dude, you know you are dealing with stoners.
try to reduce the giant block of text to the pertainant points. I didn't read your copy-paste post, it was too long. Paraphrase that, unless you are too lazy or don't realy understand the subject matter.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
So it was never palestine, you admit it hasn't been israel for 400 years. It's syria. Fine.

i would move them to texas, the climate is just about identical. also, people from louisiana, newmexico and oklahoma would not bother to lauch missiles at them. We could rename Dallas New Jerusalem and it would be a big gift.
Really? :lol:

How about the USA moves you and ur family to Syria.... happy?

The biggest affront Israel has made upon the Arabs is to be a DEMOCRACY. That is the threat felt by the Arab governments. They of course cannot come out and say this, becasue their own ppl might start to think...hey, how come that's such a bad idea? They whip up and use hatred of Israel to deflect from the real issue.
 

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
dude, you know you are dealing with stoners.
try to reduce the giant block of text to the pertainant points. I didn't read your copy-paste post, it was too long. Paraphrase that, unless you are too lazy or don't realy understand the subject matter.
Yep, there you go. Why don't we simplify the Arab Israeli conflict. That is what causes all this misinformation in the first place.

Perhaps those who don't want to learn the facts shouldn't try to have opinions on complex subjects.
 

PlantManBee

Well-Known Member
What does this have to do with jew-hating? I'm jewish and very much pro-israel, but I'm also glad to see that we are trying to bring some balance to our mid-east policy and I'm not crazy about netanyahu and his belligerent attitude either.

By the way, all the righties who complain about their tax dollars going to subsidize healthcare for the indigent....how do you feel about your tax dollars subsidizing the IDF?
thank you :clap: +rep for speaking sense. rare commodity these days.
 

Patrick Bateman

Active Member
Yep, and the Jews use the blood of Christian children to make matzos. Has it occurred to you that you are just repeating Arab propaganda? Did you know that in the last conflict in Lebanon they were carting around the bodies of dead children (whom they may have killed themselves) and staging videos of them pulling these bodies from bombed buildings? The Arabs use propaganda and useful idiots such as yourself as their main weapon. It is you who need to wake up.


BIG LIES THAT HAVE CAUSED UNTOLD MISERY


"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it".

Tragically, the well-known quotation by Hitler's chief propagandist, Joseph Goebbels has proven to be valid time and again. Goebbels was probably the most influential expert in using lies and deceit to motivate an entire nation initially towards hubris, and eventually to abject destruction
His advice on effective propaganda techniques has also been successfully adopted. He wrote "The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over." Anyone familiar with the Arab-Israel conflict will recognize how this lesson has been successfully applied. Raise any problem and the answer is "the occupation". Mention terror and the immediate solution offered is "end the occupation", ignoring the indisputable fact that terror against Jews was commonplace long before the occupation.
The universality of Goebbels' BIG LIE rule is evident from the straight line that can be drawn from the Protocols of Zion to Dreyfus, Mein Kampf, Deir Yassin, Jenin and Al Dura. Let's take a closer look at Deir Yassin and Al Dura.
Deir Yassin
The false story of atrocities in the battle for Deir Yassin in1948 is a typical example of a BIG LIE demonizing Israel, based on fabricated evidence. On April 12, 1948 Dana Schmidt wrote a "special to the New York Times" story about a massacre and rapes committed by Jews at Deir Yassin. The story, attributed to Dr. Hussein Khalidi, secretary of the Palestine Arab Higher Committee at the time, was taken at face value and spread like wildfire around the world. Even the Jewish Agency believed it and expressed horror and disgust.
But, and this is a big BUT, startling indisputable evidence came to light in 1998 revealing that the story of a massacre and rapes was a complete fabrication. Unlike the immediate spread of the accusation, this refutation was and remains completely ignored, pointing to the dangerous penchant, even among some respectable mainstream media, academics and influential politicians, to ignore readily available, credible evidence that conflicts with their biased preconceived opinions.
The evidence of fabrication is indisputable because it originates from none other than the person who prepared the original story, Hazem Nusseibeh, who was an editor of the Palestine Broadcasting Service in 1948.
The video clip that can be viewed by clicking on the link at the top of this page is an extract from a a 1998 interview with Nusseibeh in a BBC series "Israel and the Arabs: the 50 year Conflict".
While explaining the flight of Arabs and their failure in the 1948 war to the BBC, Nusseibeh indiscreetly admitted that on the direct instructions of Hussein Khalidi, he had fabricated the allegations of a massacre and rapes. He told that Khalidi said to him: "We must make the most of this" and that they therefore embroidered the press release with fictional allegations that the children of Deir Yassin were murdered and pregnant women were raped, though neither ever happened. Their intention was to encourage the Arab countries to join in the battles soon to begin. He added that these atrocity stories were "our biggest mistake," because Palestinians fled in terror and left the country in huge numbers after hearing them. This statement adds a new facet to research about the reasons so many Arabs fled in 1948. See also http://www.2nd-thoughts.org/id38.html
According to Nusseibeh, Khalidi said to him: "We must make the most of this" and the story was created in collusion with survivors of Deir Yassin and Khalidi. The press release stated that the children of Deir Yassin were murdered and pregnant women were raped, though neither ever happened.
In the same TV program, a former resident of Deir Yassin confirmed there were no rapes but that Khalidi convinced them they had to say there were. "We said, there was no rape." But Khalidi said, "We have to say this, so the Arab armies will come to liberate Palestine from the Jews".
Although this evidence has been available in publicly available archives since 1998, it has been almost universally ignored. For example On November 28, 2001 in an article "The Sharon files" The Guardian, repeated the fabrication in referring to "the Palestinian village where 254 villagers were massacred in April 1948, in the most spectacular single attack in the conquest of Palestine".
Ignoring the readily available contrary evidence, Deir Yassin continues to be a symbol of Jewish barbarity and it is regularly quoted by anti-Israel boycott activists. The myth is kept alive by an organization called "Deir Yassin Remembered", dedicated to perpetuating the fiction of a massacre
It is relevant to recall that this occurred in April 1948, before the state of Israel was declared. Many have been led to believe that Deir Yassin was a quiet village just outside Jerusalem, whereas in fact it was a heavily armed Arab village harboring some foreign militants who together with the villagers were attacking nearby Jewish neighborhoods and traffic on the Jerusalem-Tel Aviv highway.
If Deir Yassin was in fact a quiet village, it would have enjoyed the same fortune as other quiet villages such as the nearby village of Abu Ghosh, which remained neutral in 1948. In an article in the Jerusalem Post in 1997, Sam Orbaum quoted Mohammed Abu Ghosh as saying, "What we did, we did for Abu Ghosh, for nobody else. Others who lost their land, hated us then, but now all over the Arab world, many people see we were right. If everyone did what we did, there'd be no refugee problem . . . And if we were traitors? Look where we are, look where they are."
Deir Yassin was probably one of the earliest examples of the effectiveness of the well- funded Arab propaganda machine and the ineptness of Israel's PR response. It was certainly an example of Israel's mea culpa syndrome, admitting guilt where none exists, that continues to this day. The fabricated story was so convincing that even the Zionist Leaders accepted it.

Frequent reference is made in to a statement by then agriculture, minister Aharon Cizling, in support of the claim that atrocities did take place. In a cabinet meeting, Cizling said, "Jews too have behaved like Nazis and my entire being is shaken". His outburst should be seen, not as an admission of guilt, but as a manifestation of Israeli sensitivity to allegations, albeit false, of Jewish atrocities. He was so deeply moved by the fabricated reports of the kind of behavior that is not tolerated in the IDF doctrine, that he used the exaggerated and offensive Nazi comparison.
Al Dura
There have been several successful emulations of the Deir Yassin BIG LIE over the years. Notable among these was the Muhammed al Durah affair in which the 12 year old boy became the symbol of the intifada when he was caught with his father in the crossfire between IDF soldiers and Palestinians at Netzarim Junction. In pictures filmed by a Palestinian cameraman and broadcast by French television, he is allegedly seen shot and killed.
Israeli physicist, Nahum Shahaf, examined the evidence and claimed it was a hoax. Among those whom Shahaf convinced, was Professor Richard Landes of Boston University who saw the original unedited footage of the scene and produced a three-part documentary about the event, first Pallywood, a study of systemic staging of "news" by "the street" acting for Palestinian cameramen, (see: http://tinyurl.com/ydleswh), then a detailed analysis of the evidence in Al Durah, Birth of an Icon (http://tinyurl.com/yaf4xvy), and finally a study of the hoax’s disastrous impact on global culture, Icon of Hatred (http://tinyurl.com/yajvjmo)
Meanwhile, Philippe Karsenty, head of a French media watchdog group, accused France2 and their Middle East correspondent, Charles Enderlin, of broadcasting staged footage. France2 sued Karsenty for defamation, and won the initial round. Professor Landes' thorough work played a significant role in the eventual reversal of the judgment on appeal in French court, ruling that Karsenty was not guilty of defaming Enderlin and France2. Al Dura nevertheless remains an international icon of Israel's supposed cruelty confirming Goebbels contention that If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it
What Hazem Nusseibeh told the BBC about Deir Yassin
The video focuses on an interview with Hazem Nusseibeh, a member of one of Jerusalem's most prominent Arab families. In 1948 he was an editor of the Palestine Broadcasting Service's Arabic news.
In this interview with the BBC he admits that in 1948 he was instructed by Hussein Khalidi, a prominent Palestinian Arab leader, to fabricate claims of atrocities at Deir Yassin in order to encourage Arab regimes to invade the expected Jewish state. He made this damming admission in explaining why the Arabs failed in the 1948 war. He said "this was our biggest mistake", because Palestinians fled in terror and left the country in huge numbers after hearing the atrocity claims.
Nusseibeh describes an encounter at the Jaffa Gate of Jerusalem's Old City with Deir Yassin survivors and Palestinian leaders, including Hussein Khalidi... 'I asked Dr. Khalidi how we should cover the story,'. He said, "We must make the most of this. So we wrote a press release stating that at Deir Yassin children were murdered, pregnant women were raped, all sorts of atrocities"
In the video clip Abu Mahmud, who was a Dir Yassin resident in 1948, told the BBC that the villagers protested against the atrocity claims: We said, "There was no rape. But Khalidi said, We have to say this, so the Arab armies will come to liberate Palestine from the Jews."
This false press statement was released to New York Times correspondent, Dana Schmidt leading to an article in the New York Times on April 12, 1948, claiming that a massacre took place at Deir Yassin that was reprinted worldwide and cited even in Israel as proof of Israeli atrocities
Dr. Hazem Nusseibeh was a representative of Jordan at the Mixed Armistice Commission and he was Minister of Foreign Affairs.He was also the Permanent Ambassador of Jordan to the UN and has authored several books, including The Ideas of Arab Nationalism, Palestine and the United Nations and A History of Modern Jordan.
Contact Maurice Ostroff by email at [email protected]
and visit his website: http://maurice-ostroff.tripod.com


Narratives from both sides do not do the actual events justice

I don't know why you are lecturing me on Arab propaganda when I never argued its non existence

These quotes are from a book written by a far right Israeli author, some would say biased

But let's see some of the facts acknowledged by someone who has a position closer to yours

Concerning Deir Yassin:

"A series of mishaps accompanied the assault from the outset. One of
the sub-forces was spotted by an Arab sentry before zero hour. The loud-
speaker that should have encouraged the villagers to leave did not work.
The vehicle that carried it was stuck in a ditch on the outskirts of the
village, and the shouts of the loudspeaker’s team were not heard in the
village’s houses. The inhabitants had no idea that the purpose of the attack
was conquest (still an unfamiliar contingency at that time), and they
thought it was just a hit-and-run raid."

"Contrary to the IZL and LHI claims after the action (apparently gener-
ated by the desire to justify or ‘spread the blame’ for the tragic outcome)
there is no evidence of foreign combatants — ALA’s or others — in Deir
Yassin. Menachem Begin asserted in his memoirs that Iraqi troops who
were stationed in the village prevented the residents from escaping at the
beginning of the assault. However all contemporary and later Arab testi-
monies described the villagers themselves as the only combatants in the
hamlet, and there is no reason to question this account."

"Unlike the occupation of al-Qastel prior to that of Deir Yassin, or the
conquests of many other Arab villages later in the war that were found
deserted by their inhabitants when Jewish forces arrived, the battle in Deir
Yassin took place with the civilian population still present."

"This was the primary reason for the high number of casu-
alties among non-combatants, much greater than civilian casualties at
other villages."

"Although numerous, the number of casualties was far below the figure
that the IZL and LHI boasted to have killed, in an announcement
published immediately after the battle (240). The real number of Arabs killed in Deir Yassin was much lower. After the battle, SHAI Arab sources reported 100 to 110 Arab casualties."

"All these sources contradict the figures of contemporary and later Palestinian propaganda that inflated the numbers to 300 and even 400 victims of a cold-blood massacre."

"Kan’ana and several Arab witnesses claim that 25 young villagers were executed after the battle, most of them in a nearby quarry. This charge is apparently true."

"The IZL and LHI made no effort to conceal their actions in Deir Yassin.
Moreover, they openly boasted about the mass killing, admitted to plun-
dering, and willingly let journalists and the IRC representative tour the
site."

"One witness, Ali Yussuf Jaber, a resident of the refugee camp al-Amari
near Ramallah, emphasized that no cases of rape had occurred in Deir
Yassin."

"The facts of what really transpired at Deir Yassin were soon drowned
in an ocean of hysteric rhetoric on both sides."

Gelber, Yoav (2006). Palestine 1948. See Appendix II: "Propaganda as History: What Happened at Deir Yassin?"

So what can we glean from this?

Facts - 100 to 110 dead Arabs at least 70 of whom were civilians

- Execution of 25 Arabs

- This atrocity was the result of many unforeseen circumstances

- Palestinian propaganda machine greatly exaggerated the events of Deir Yassin including charges of rape and mutilation

- No matter what the circumstances, Mass Murder of civilians is never excusable

But you're right, I'm an idiot because I don't agree with your view of Israel and Israeli paramilitary forces have NEVER done anything wrong
 

Dragonsmoke

Well-Known Member
Hey guys!

Spent some time in Isreal not too long ago with my buddy and met some nice local girls, They were nice enough to show me how one of them has a father that drives a bulldozer for the Isreali military and crushes Palistinian homes. They try to stretch the border by a few meters everyday. We heard all the anti arab talk from the townsfolk and just nodded and smiled. During our time there a suicide bomber killed some ppl in isreal, and a few days later they sent Rockets back and killed mostly women and children all while they cheered about the whole thing. Its like a soccer game with lives at stake and deepply saddening.

I have come to the conclusion that I would like to see every willing Arab strap a big chunk of C4 to his chest and run into Isreal at the same time so we can all be done with both of your dirty self rightious races.

In this day and age we need resources and science, not a shoving match about whos pretend guy in the sky is better or whos patch of arrid dirt belongs to who.

I've had it with the two races. Cry me a river jews ya ya u had the holocost get over it, Arabs they took some of your land big deal. Every race has had some tough times but you know what? Its about moving forward instead of dwelling on the past.

Or just accidentally nuke the whole region and Wahlah! OIL FOR EVERYONE.
 

Mindmelted

Well-Known Member
Hey guys!

Spent some time in Isreal not too long ago with my buddy and met some nice local girls, They were nice enough to show me how one of them has a father that drives a bulldozer for the Isreali military and crushes Palistinian homes. They try to stretch the border by a few meters everyday. We heard all the anti arab talk from the townsfolk and just nodded and smiled. During our time there a suicide bomber killed some ppl in isreal, and a few days later they sent Rockets back and killed mostly women and children all while they cheered about the whole thing. Its like a soccer game with lives at stake and deepply saddening.

I have come to the conclusion that I would like to see every willing Arab strap a big chunk of C4 to his chest and run into Isreal at the same time so we can all be done with both of your dirty self rightious races.

In this day and age we need resources and science, not a shoving match about whos pretend guy in the sky is better or whos patch of arrid dirt belongs to who.

I've had it with the two races. Cry me a river jews ya ya u had the holocost get over it, Arabs they took some of your land big deal. Every race has had some tough times but you know what? Its about moving forward instead of dwelling on the past.

Or just accidentally nuke the whole region and Wahlah! OIL FOR EVERYONE.
:clap::clap::clap::clap:
 

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
This whole thread has obviously become a neo-Nazi circle jerk. Have fun guys.

This thread ought to locked if anyone is listening.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
Keep it open.... it's instructive to show others.... so they don't end up empty minded like some of the posters here.

These guys endorse terrorism. Certainly, their opinions enable it.

It's good for ppl to see it on display.
 

medicineman

New Member
Most Israelis feel that the Obama administration is the most unfriendly in history and that they have betrayed Israel.

99% of the criticism of Israel does come from Anti-Semitism whether people know it or not. What else do you call it when people with less that zero knowledge of mid-East politics spout off about the Israeli treatment of the Palestinians based on uninformed assumptions. The fact that these people automatically latch onto every bit of Arab propaganda without so much as a single doubt demonstrates that they are in fact anti-Semites. Otherwise, they would take 5 minutes to learn the facts.

Does anyone here remember when Israel unilaterally pulled out of Gaza? What happened? Did the Palestinians begin building an infrastructure? There are literally tomes of information available that debunks the Arab lies and exposes the fact that the only thing these people really want is the eradication of the Jewish state and the subjugation or death of the Jews that live there.

The fact is, the Arabs do not want peace and they could care less about the land. Their only interest in this land is in depriving the infidel from owning it. Their religion requires them to subjugate the infidel - Israel merely has the misfortune of being in close proximity and is therefore a salient target.

With the easy availability of the real facts, it is reasonable to say that people commenting on Israeli treatment of Palestinians are either just trying to have the PC opinion or they are an anti-Semite. It's pretty cut and dry.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths2/cover.html
Are you fucking kidding? You mean if you criticize Israel for bombing the palestinians, You are an anti-semite? Warped man, warped.
 

abe23

Active Member
Yes, and I'm obviously a self-hating jew.

Although in all fairness to ricky, there is some pretty borderline stuff in this thread....
 

tinyTURTLE

Well-Known Member
Yes, and I'm obviously a self-hating jew.

Although in all fairness to ricky, there is some pretty borderline stuff in this thread....
nothing illegal about not liking israel.
no different from not liking mexico or france or greenland.
God save the jewish people, but fuck israel.
 
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