HELP!!... I can't get a definitive solution!!

dakin3d

dakin3d

Well-Known Member
Growing in soil for a few weeks under 24/0, recently switched to 20/4, under 400W Hortilux Ace conversion. I have limited new air, but constant air flow from two fans. I am using Happy Frog soil from Fox Farm. Emailed them recently, but never heard back regarding a standardized ratio of macronutrients. Fed a couple of times w/ un-pH'd nutes (botanicare Pro Grow at 50 and 100%). Uncovered that ph was around 4.5. I have since flushed twice over the past five days. Did NOT pH runoff at the time (ignorance). Unknown strains from quality bags. Thought part of this problem was due to needing to transplant from beer cups, but even after transplanting into 3 gals, they continue to exhibit this 'sickness', and in some plants still progressing. I have no CO2, yet, but will be implementing 50lb bottle w/ timed regulator this weekend. Temps range from 65-80 depending on day, typically 68-78. RH is high, but also varies from 45-70%, typically 55-64%. Water beer cups everyday to every other day depending on specific plant. Water 3 gals every 3-5 days depending. It's not overwatering, as I ensure that the containers are dry and light before watering...sometimes maybe too dry. Water pH ranges from 6.5-6.8, which from what I understand is near ideal. I have had to spray w/ a pest killer, however, the mealy bugs were sparse and dead w/in a day of spraying (weeks ago). Have sprayed a few times since for preventative measures, never under the light. Any addl info needed, just let me know. If you can give me your feedback, it would be much appreciated! Thank you..
 
Subtlechaos

Subtlechaos

Well-Known Member
Your temps get too high, if they're getting over low 80s. You really want them around 75, so you should be ok, there.
Your problem looks to me like either pretty bad nutrient burn, or a magnesium deficiency. It looks similar to this photo of nute burn... But that would've been fixed by you flushing them, so I think maybe magnesium deficiency.



That photo is of nutrient burn.

This is a plant with a magnesium deficiency. ( See the picture below.)



Magnesium deficiency looks similar to a nutrient burn, but the leaves start curling UP.

If you think you may have a Magnesium deficiency, foliar feed your plants 1/2 teaspoon of epsom salts to a quart of water. Mash up the salt, put it in a quart of hot water (not boiling!) and let it dissolve...then foliar feed it to your plants (spray on the leaves, top and bottom). Couldn't hurt. I was told to do just that, when a couple of my girls did that, and they bounced back in a few days.

Hope I helped!:bigjoint:
 
cowboylogic

cowboylogic

Well-Known Member
They are sick because you are killing them with love. Dont over think it. Weeds a weeds a weeds............
 
cowboylogic

cowboylogic

Well-Known Member
Subtlechaos said:
That too... Let em' grow, brother. They gotta' do SOME of the work.
Click to expand...
Not really. They should do most of the work. The grower should do the least. Well, a few grows down the road anyways.:bigjoint:
Welcome to the both of you too RIU. You seem like you have done a bit of homework and are on the right track. Keep GROWING!!!!!!!! Help is about.........
 
dakin3d

dakin3d

Well-Known Member
cowboylogic said:
They are sick because you are killing them with love. Dont over think it. Weeds a weeds a weeds............
Click to expand...
I feel you, bro.... It's so hard when you initially start, though!! I guess Im a RIP (work in progress), but I appreciate the input. Ive def spent too much time over analyzing EVERYTHING.

Subtlechaos said:
Your temps get too high, if they're getting over low 80s. You really want them around 75, so you should be ok, there.
Your problem looks to me like either pretty bad nutrient burn, or a magnesium deficiency. It looks similar to this photo of nute burn... But that would've been fixed by you flushing them, so I think maybe magnesium deficiency.



That photo is of nutrient burn.

This is a plant with a magnesium deficiency. ( See the picture below.)



Magnesium deficiency looks similar to a nutrient burn, but the leaves start curling UP.

If you think you may have a Magnesium deficiency, foliar feed your plants 1/2 teaspoon of epsom salts to a quart of water. Mash up the salt, put it in a quart of hot water (not boiling!) and let it dissolve...then foliar feed it to your plants (spray on the leaves, top and bottom). Couldn't hurt. I was told to do just that, when a couple of my girls did that, and they bounced back in a few days.

Hope I helped!:bigjoint:
Click to expand...
I appreciate the input man, and thanks for the pics. It def looks like one of these. I guess I'll try the salts and see what happens from there. Otherwise, 'NO NUTE'S FOR YOU'!!:bigjoint: - the jib, been dry for over a month
 
simpsonsampson420

simpsonsampson420

Well-Known Member
alright bro.. here is my 2 cents worth..

my instinct says that its a nute def.. not from lack of feeding.. the soil is too "new" to be shorting you on nutes... but from a ph problem in the soil itself... this can not be figured out by ph'ing the water or runoff... well lets take a step back.... this might help...

first you have 3 different ph readings you can get from your plant.. 1) nute solution/water 2) the actual soil ph 3) soil run off ph... all three have very little to do with one another.... the first two are really the only important ones.. run off ph is not accurate for anything since it has not only water/nute solution you just fed, but also all the other shit it washes out of the soil.. it isnt a good measure for anything...

so lets talk about the first two... you always want to ph your nute solution and water that you feed your plants.. keeping that ph in range will ensure that at least some of the nutes that are being fed and absorbed if your soil ph is fucked... in order to check your soil ph you need a soil ph test kit or meter.. they are fairly cheap to expensive.. the pricier the meter/kit the more accurate the reading.. it doesnt have to be the best.. just something to give you an idea where your at.. because if you soil ph is screwed you are in for trouble..

example: you have ph'd your nute solution everytime to around 6.5... but your soil ph is 5.5 for instance (starting out).. well over time the salt that builds up in the soil will cause the ph of the soil to drop more and more.. as it drops certain nutes get locked out more and more.. this causes more and more build up.. ect ect... thats the only time they have something to do with one another...

so the first step is to test your soil ph and see whats up with it...

the second thing it could be (which is my second guess) is that maybe your soil is out of nutes and your plants are lacking some micro nutes... you may want to start feeding not only your macros but a calmag supplement http://www.wormsway.com/detail.aspx?t=prod&sku=CMP405&AC=1 .. it offers the micro nutes, for the most part, your plant will likely lack...

the best thing to do to avoid all deficiencies is to use a good 3 part nute series (fox farms, gen. hydro., advanced nutes, bc boost) are all great lines to use... and making sure to keep your ph's in check are important too..

http://www.wormsway.com/detail.aspx?t=prod&sku=EJND502&AC=1 this is an example of a product you can use to lower ph.. they also have one to raise it.. there are other ways too we can discuss if you check it and it is indeed out of wack...

now... i dont think heat is a problem.. i had my grow room in the 90s to 100s for a week during my last grow with little problems.. it basically just stopped my plants from growing.. and the 80s is my normal.. low 80s to upper 70s.. i have a fresh air intake so i get plenty of co2.. adding that will help negate the effects of the high temps... really high temps dont matter as much if you can keep plenty of fresh air or co2 available...

last thing.. do you know the ppm of the water you use to feed with?? if the ppm is to high, or it contains a lot of calcium or anything like that, you can get the same sort of problems.. also, do you leave the water out to let the chlorine evaportate?? if not you should do that.. and if at all possible try to find out that info or switch to RO water you get at the store.. it might be somewhat pricey but its worth it in the end...
 
simpsonsampson420

simpsonsampson420

Well-Known Member
oh.. and i meant to say.. when feeding... start out with a 1/4 strength solution and increase strength from there over time...
 
dakin3d

dakin3d

Well-Known Member
simpsonsampson420 said:
alright bro.. here is my 2 cents worth..

my instinct says that its a nute def.. not from lack of feeding.. the soil is too "new" to be shorting you on nutes... but from a ph problem in the soil itself... this can not be figured out by ph'ing the water or runoff... well lets take a step back.... this might help...

first you have 3 different ph readings you can get from your plant.. 1) nute solution/water 2) the actual soil ph 3) soil run off ph... all three have very little to do with one another.... the first two are really the only important ones.. run off ph is not accurate for anything since it has not only water/nute solution you just fed, but also all the other shit it washes out of the soil.. it isnt a good measure for anything...

so lets talk about the first two... you always want to ph your nute solution and water that you feed your plants.. keeping that ph in range will ensure that at least some of the nutes that are being fed and absorbed if your soil ph is fucked... in order to check your soil ph you need a soil ph test kit or meter.. they are fairly cheap to expensive.. the pricier the meter/kit the more accurate the reading.. it doesnt have to be the best.. just something to give you an idea where your at.. because if you soil ph is screwed you are in for trouble..

example: you have ph'd your nute solution everytime to around 6.5... but your soil ph is 5.5 for instance (starting out).. well over time the salt that builds up in the soil will cause the ph of the soil to drop more and more.. as it drops certain nutes get locked out more and more.. this causes more and more build up.. ect ect... thats the only time they have something to do with one another...

so the first step is to test your soil ph and see whats up with it...

the second thing it could be (which is my second guess) is that maybe your soil is out of nutes and your plants are lacking some micro nutes... you may want to start feeding not only your macros but a calmag supplement http://www.wormsway.com/detail.aspx?t=prod&sku=CMP405&AC=1 .. it offers the micro nutes, for the most part, your plant will likely lack...

the best thing to do to avoid all deficiencies is to use a good 3 part nute series (fox farms, gen. hydro., advanced nutes, bc boost) are all great lines to use... and making sure to keep your ph's in check are important too..

http://www.wormsway.com/detail.aspx?t=prod&sku=EJND502&AC=1 this is an example of a product you can use to lower ph.. they also have one to raise it.. there are other ways too we can discuss if you check it and it is indeed out of wack...

now... i dont think heat is a problem.. i had my grow room in the 90s to 100s for a week during my last grow with little problems.. it basically just stopped my plants from growing.. and the 80s is my normal.. low 80s to upper 70s.. i have a fresh air intake so i get plenty of co2.. adding that will help negate the effects of the high temps... really high temps dont matter as much if you can keep plenty of fresh air or co2 available...

last thing.. do you know the ppm of the water you use to feed with?? if the ppm is to high, or it contains a lot of calcium or anything like that, you can get the same sort of problems.. also, do you leave the water out to let the chlorine evaportate?? if not you should do that.. and if at all possible try to find out that info or switch to RO water you get at the store.. it might be somewhat pricey but its worth it in the end...
Click to expand...
Whats up, bro... Just wanted to say thank you for all of the feedback. It is much appreciated. FYI, I do, in fact, leave my water out for longer than 24 hrs since i don't have a pump to aid in expedition of the process. Im on my way to the hydro shop tomm to pick up some supplies, including a soil pH kit and a ppm meter for the h20. Im also getting a report from the county/city water plant that provides specific info re micro-nutrient conc content. Its def not a heat prob... I actually wish it were a little warmer in my room, however the humidity has been getting unreasonable high. Currently in veg, but will have to flower soon and it's been running around 70-78% when im gone for an extended period of time. Do you have any recommendations for someone that doesn't have good ventilation. I am at a loss for ideas on trying to get fresh air into my room. I have cement walls, as it is a storm shelter, so I can't construct any vents...
 
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