Help designing a new cab

Alright, so I'm starting the planning phase of my new grow cab, and I have a few questions. Not only am I hoping to get a few answers to my questions, but general comments would be wonderful as well.

For starters, my plan is to take a pre-existing wardrobe cabinet and modify it. The one I was looking to start with looks alot like this one:

30" Versa Multi-Purpose Cabinet

The only difference being the dimentions. The one I was planning on modeling it around is 71 3/4 " H x 29 5/8 " W x 20 1/2 " D. First my plan is to improve the depth from 20" to 24", to allow more room for the rest of the items.

In the main flowering room, I planned on having a 400 watt HPS with a cool tube. The ducting would run from outside the cab, to the light, then to the exhaust fan that is located in the mech room (more on that latter), then out the back again. Grow method would be with a basic flood and drain set up. The main flood tray would be:
22" x 22" x 7" Tray (white) | Trays=
and then a reservoir underneath that, either a 10 gallon:

10 Gallon Multi-Res Bottom | Reservoirs=

or a 20 gallon:

20 Gallon Multi-Res Kit (Bottom & Lid) | BGH=

The flowering room would be 24" W x 24" D. Since the cab is 30" Wide, I would put a divider up (wood), cutting the cab in two sections, the smaller being 6" wide. The lower part would be the mother/clone room (I realize that 6" is a narrow area for a plant, but I just need a mother and a few clones to grow, nothing big. Oh, and floros would be here). The ballast to the HPS would be in the upper part, along with the fan for the the cool tube, and the exhaust fan to regulate the temp. I'm a fan of S&P Mixvent fans:

Soler & Palau Commercial Centrifugal, Axial, Propeller, Exhaust and Supply Fans - Soler and Palau - HVACQuick.com

The mech room would hold the home made carbon scrubber, in addition to an ozone generator for added protection.

In addition to this, it would obviously be light proofed with weather stripping. I would most likely line all of the walls with Fatmat to reduce sound and vibrations, and paint everything flat white.

For security, I'll place two Tot locks on the inside, the kind that use magnets to open, along with one latch on the outside to make it look locked.

My over all grow style was hopefully to be a SOG, which leads us to a few of my questions. The first of all has to do with the vertical height needed. The reservoir is about 12" tall, the flood tray is 7", and according to:
https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/6592-get-harvest-every-2-weeks.html the plants will only get about 40" tall. Adding all of these up, that would give me about 12" to work with, including the space used for the light itself. The cool tube is 4" in diameter, so that would mean the plants would have to get within 8" of the light. Do you think that is possible, or should I plan on expanding the cab's height? Also, what cfm would I need to use to get the plants within 8" of the light?

My other question has to do with reserviors. I was hoping to fit a reservoir within a 24"wx24"d space. The only one I could find to fit in that space is a 10 gallon tank. Do you think that is enough? and if not, does anyone know where I can get a larger one that fits within that space? The 20 gallon link I gave above is 20"wx26"d.

Also, what CFM rated fan would you recomend for the general exhaust of the flower room? I have used the Mixvent 125 fan before, rated at 197 CFM, and this has worked well in smaller cabs, but I'm not sure about this one. Any ideas?

Ok, so I know it's long, but I'm trying to be thorough, and give enough information for individuals to judge me, my work, my ideas, and my potential. If there is something I forgot, feel free to tell me, or if I need to change something, feel free to say so, but please don't tell me that I need to do a ScrOG, or use a bubbler or something.

To reiterate the questions, because I know they are all over the place here, they are:

1. Do you think that is possible to get plants to grow up to 8" of a 400 watt HPS without burning them or stunting the growth, provided that I have a cool tube hooked up?

2. What type of CFM rated fan from: Soler & Palau Commercial Centrifugal, Axial, Propeller, Exhaust and Supply Fans - Soler and Palau - HVACQuick.com should I use to provide adequate ventilation for the cool tube, in order to get the plants within 8" of the light?

3. What CFM rated fan would you recomend for adequate ventilation for a flowering room of the dimentions 24"w X 24"d X 70"h?

4. Is a 10 gallon reservoir big enough for 6-9 plants?

5. Where can I get a reservoir bigger than 10 gallons that can fit in a 24"wx24"d space, without getting bigger than 12"H?

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

I'm by far no expert, but here goes.

If a hydro set up, res temps would be my first concern. (main reason I haven't gone hydro. Earl really likes cold res temps and so do his plants)

24x24 is a bit tight for SOG I'd think. At least not more then one plant every 2 weeks. Thats 6 plants at a given stage. (12 weeks Some plants take longer. Just had 2 clones, taken same time about the same height one took 2 weeks longer)

(oops hit submit too soon)

One thing I'd suggest, but a LOT harder with hydro, is to fix the lamp at the top and slowly lower the plants as they grow. The benny to this is you can have a nice straight shot for the lamp cooling. Bends and such can really kill flow. Plus you can use straight/smooth tubing instead of the corrugated flex stuff (kills laminar flow)

8 inches of lamp may be cutting it close.

CFM for lamp, I'm still researching that myself, But Al B Fuct says 200-250CFM should be fine for a lamp.

I *think* rule of thumb for hydro is 5L per plant (Al B again, but might have miss-quoted that one)
So 6-9 plant should be 30-45L or 7.5-12 gal. I think you may have to monitor it a ton first few grows. As the plants grow they take more.

Vent CFM I think it should be in the area of 1/3 the space volume. (aka 3 minutes to do a full change over) But you can subtract the res tank and light if spitting hairs.

As for the res tank, I do think there are custom fish tank kits supplies. A lot of plastics can be glued with just a solvent like MEK.

Well theres my 2 pence.

I appreciate the advice BigBudBalls.

I had not consitered the res temps. That one totally missed me. I'll look more into that, or if anyone else has any information, concerns, or advice I'd love to hear it.

As far as the size being too small for SOG, I know it isn't ideal, but I think it could work. I was planning on harvesting one plant every two weeks, or just doing six all at once and harvesting together. Not sure just yet, but yes I already know I can't fit more than like six in that size of a space. I don't really want to though, just for personal use.

As the water temp rises, the oxygen falls out of it (sorta reverse humidity) Plus past a certain temp, you are looking at root rot.

What hydro system we talking?

If all at once, isn't that not a SOG? Thought SOG was a perpetual thing. (could *easily* be wrong on that)

6-9 plants for personal? I just finished up 5 plants (2 flowering sessions) and got enough for close to a year (don't smoke a lot) Averaging 1-1.25 oz per plant dry. And the plants were about 2 foot tall (not counting the container) And under a pair of 150W hps's (the 400W is waiting in the wings for the winter grow) And just some *tiny* plants flowering now and *hopefully* all pregnant with seeds.

specialkayme said:

I appreciate the advice BigBudBalls.

I had not consitered the res temps. That one totally missed me. I'll look more into that, or if anyone else has any information, concerns, or advice I'd love to hear it.

As far as the size being too small for SOG, I know it isn't ideal, but I think it could work. I was planning on harvesting one plant every two weeks, or just doing six all at once and harvesting together. Not sure just yet, but yes I already know I can't fit more than like six in that size of a space. I don't really want to though, just for personal use.

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i would give myself an extra 6 to 8 inches in height if at all possible
as for the cool tubes distance from the plants . with 250 cfm i can keep my 1000 watt hps within 4 inches of the canopy so i dont see why with your 400 watter and a 197 cfm or so fan you couldnt achieve the same results ... so yeah you can very easily stay within 8 inches of the canopy

as for you reservior you can find rubbermaid bins in almost any size and i would imagine one thats 24 x 24 would be as easy as can be to find at your local home improvement store
i never like seeing a grow op this cramped as it tends to get too hot and the plants always run low on room and suffer for it. however if you flollow Al B.'s root and flower method with no veg time the plants will stay relatively short and if pruned for SoG lollipops you can pack them in pretty tight ... i think Al b. does 1 plant per 8 ince circle.

it looks as though you have this planned out pretty well and as far as i can see it oughta work well as long as you keep heat and humidity in check. and maintain your nutrient tank. i can see the PPM and PH fluctuating wuite a bit in here due to evaporation which in turn is also going to wreak havok on your humidity.
therefore i would also suggest isolating your res tank as best you can to keep the grow op heat away from it and its moisture away from your grow op.
that will give you the best chance of controlling the PH and ppm.

best of luck to you with this grow and if i missed something or wasnt clear or confused something feel free to PM and i will try to clarify as best i can

BigBudBalls said:

As the water temp rises, the oxygen falls out of it (sorta reverse humidity) Plus past a certain temp, you are looking at root rot.

What hydro system we talking?.

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I was just planning on doing a basic flood and drain system. I loved hempy, but still enjoy playing around. Hempy buckets are a good intro to hydro, but I think I'm looking for a bit more.

I was aware of the necesity of res temps, but I just forgot about it as a factor.

BigBudBalls said:

If all at once, isn't that not a SOG? Thought SOG was a perpetual thing. (could *easily* be wrong on that).

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I just thought a SOG was the style of keeping them low, and all at a uniform height, like Al's 2 week harvest. I could be wrong as well, and if so I appologize for calling it something it isn't.

BigBudBalls said:

6-9 plants for personal? I just finished up 5 plants (2 flowering sessions) and got enough for close to a year (don't smoke a lot) Averaging 1-1.25 oz per plant dry. And the plants were about 2 foot tall (not counting the container) And under a pair of 150W hps's (the 400W is waiting in the wings for the winter grow) And just some *tiny* plants flowering now and *hopefully* all pregnant with seeds.

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Well, personal may be a stretch. I don't smoke too much, but I enjoy sharing with friends. So I guess what I mean to say by personal, is enough for me and my friends.

Phinxter said:

i would give myself an extra 6 to 8 inches in height if at all possible

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I was contemplating the issue, of just adding another foot for security purposes, but if the cab itself is only 71 inches in height, it would be alot more trouble than could possibly be necissary to add another foot onto it, making it look somewhat shitty, and less stealth, if I didn't need it or use it. If I can get away with not adding the extra foot I would like to, but if necesary, I will. But, hence the reason for this thread.

Phinxter said:

as for the cool tubes distance from the plants . with 250 cfm i can keep my 1000 watt hps within 4 inches of the canopy so i dont see why with your 400 watter and a 197 cfm or so fan you couldnt achieve the same results ... so yeah you can very easily stay within 8 inches of the canopy

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Excellent. That is what I was hoping for. Probably using that Td - 125 for the cool tube, then getting another 125, 150, or 200x for vent of the rest of the cab, just to be on the safe side.

Phinxter said:

as for you reservior you can find rubbermaid bins in almost any size and i would imagine one thats 24 x 24 would be as easy as can be to find at your local home improvement store

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I was looking into those, but if it's more than like 8 gallons (from what I remember), they end up being more than 12 inches tall. I really need to keep it under 12" or I run into more height problems, of which I can't afford to lose any. I was thinking this as well though, just wasn't too sure of the vertical height. I guess I could run by the store tomorrow and take a look.

Phinxter said:

i never like seeing a grow op this cramped as it tends to get too hot and the plants always run low on room and suffer for it. however if you flollow Al B.'s root and flower method with no veg time the plants will stay relatively short and if pruned for SoG lollipops you can pack them in pretty tight ... i think Al b. does 1 plant per 8 ince circle.

Click to expand...

BINGO PHINXTER! that's actually exactly what I was planning on doing. I was hoping to fit 6-9 plants in a 22"x22" flood tray though. If I went with Als' 8" plan, I would only fit four plants in there. Not that I couldn't deal with that, but I'm hoping that I can fit more in, if the roots have less room they don't get as tall, and I get more plants in the space. If I go with six plants, that would be one per 7"x11" area, which isn't too bad though.

And I would really love to just grow in a spare room and have no height or heat issues, but that isn't really the case. If a 9' tall cabinet didn't draw too many eyes, that's what I'd go with in a heartbeat, but a 6' or 7' one would be less likely to raise an eyebrow, wich is why I'm going with it.

Phinxter said:

it looks as though you have this planned out pretty well and as far as i can see it oughta work well as long as you keep heat and humidity in check. and maintain your nutrient tank. i can see the PPM and PH fluctuating wuite a bit in here due to evaporation which in turn is also going to wreak havok on your humidity.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the comment. I was thinking if I keep ventilation in check, then humidity wouldn't be a problem, and if I kept a lid on the reservoir, evaporation would be kept to a min as well, but I wasn't 100% on this.

Phinxter said:

therefore i would also suggest isolating your res tank as best you can to keep the grow op heat away from it and its moisture away from your grow op.
that will give you the best chance of controlling the PH and ppm.

best of luck to you with this grow and if i missed something or wasnt clear or confused something feel free to PM and i will try to clarify as best i can

Click to expand...

I tossed around the idea of putting the reservoir in that side room, under where the mother/clone room would be, which would add another 12" of grow space in the flowering room, but I decided that it would be difficult if not impossible to find a reasonable sized reservoir that could fit into a 6"Wx24"D area, so I dedided to just put it under the flood Table.

Ohter than that, I'm loveing this planning phase. I really appreciate all the advice and imput. I can't wait to get this thing off the ground!

Anyone else have any new ideas? Any suggestions, tweeks, comments, or criticizms?

Anything would be welcome.

Well, I was hoping for a few second opinions, or additional imput, but I guess I can get by with what we have.

One thing did come up though, and that's the carbon scrubber. I planned on having an ozone generator, but I like the idea of two levels of smell protection. So as far as the carbon filter works, there are two ideas that I was tossing around.

First option was to take the exhaust fans, and dump it into a separate compartment (almost like a box, or a room) in the cab, then have the filter between the this room and the outside. The filter would consist of two of these: Filtrete? 14 In. x 20 In. x 1 In. Micro Allergen Reduction Filter - 9805DC at The Home Depot
cut to fit, with ground up activated carbon in between the two. The filtrete filters would be able to slide in and out, so I could replace the carbon inbetween them whenever they wear out.

The second option is to get one of these: Soler & Palau Commercial Centrifugal, Axial, Propeller, Exhaust and Supply Fans - Soler and Palau - HVACQuick.com and fit it on the end of the main S&P exhaust fan. It would work like I was pushing air into the carbon scrubber, and then out of the cab. I would naturally add activated carbon to the filters located inside that ducting box.

So which one would you guys recomend using? Any ideas?

i have a brand new S&P fan i could help you with

KEEP IT SIMPLE. dwc+400watter+cooltube+compumter fan+closet box(one a those seperate 2 door deals)+nutes n all thos+seeds(im goin wit wite rhino seems perrrfect fo my setup which is tha same as wut i said)=good cheap ass box

upinchronic1 said:

i have a brand new S&P fan i could help you with

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Awesome, what type and size? How much are you asking for it? Mind if I ask why you are trying to get rid of it? Didn't like it?

BCnative said:

KEEP IT SIMPLE. dwc+400watter+cooltube+compumter fan+closet box(one a those seperate 2 door deals)+nutes n all thos+seeds(im goin wit wite rhino seems perrrfect fo my setup which is tha same as wut i said)=good cheap ass box

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Well, almost everything is the same between your suggestion and my idea. The ony difference is with a mother chamber, odor control, and I'm not using dwc. I'm not a fan of that set up, I've tried it before and wasn't impressed. That's just me though.

Here is a general drawing about what I am talking about, for thsoe of you who are visual people. My paint skills are weak, to say the least. If you have any questions about it, feel free to ask.

im going stealth. I bought a bunch of cpu fans instead. There quiet, but the noise from the insane airflow is to much for me. Ill throw it to ya for 140

you got the idea. With this fan you would have no probs with any heat, you could just have one vent hole, and leave the otherside of the cool tube open

MisterMicro said:

im going stealth. I bought a bunch of cpu fans instead. There quiet, but the noise from the insane airflow is to much for me. Ill throw it to ya for 140

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Wait, are you offering to sell me your S&P fan as well MisterMicro? I was just expecting an offer from upcronic. What size fan do you have MM? 200x? 150?

im upinchron, i have two personalities. ha.

its the 200something i think the x,

I sent you a PM

I have been talking with edux10 through private messaging, and he has suggested that it is a must that the exhaust runs out a window. If it doesn't run out a window and just into the room the temps inside the cab will grow very quickly.

Are there any other thoughts on this?

being that it isn't a very large cab, I planned on just venting out the back of the box, and having the air flow into the rest of the room, which is controled through central air/heating. I thought this would be enough, but if anyone has any comments to make on the subject I would love to hear them.

specialkayme said:

I have been talking with edux10 through private messaging, and he has suggested that it is a must that the exhaust runs out a window. If it doesn't run out a window and just into the room the temps inside the cab will grow very quickly.

Are there any other thoughts on this?

being that it isn't a very large cab, I planned on just venting out the back of the box, and having the air flow into the rest of the room, which is controled through central air/heating. I thought this would be enough, but if anyone has any comments to make on the subject I would love to hear them.

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Size of the cab isn't much a factor (bigger is probably better)
You have a lamp that puts out x degrees. In a small cab the air temp will rise quicker then a large. but with no vent in the cab, the large and small will reach the same temp eventually. Smaller cab will hit that number faster; less air to heat up.

As for venting to the room vs out the window. If the main room has the thermostat then you should be fine. If the thermostat is down the hall, then results will vary.

If you do vent to the outside, pull from the outside too. (no sense tossing out the AC air to the birds and squirrels.)

Just try it out. Run the system for a week with no plants and see.

Its tough to give definitive answers without being there seeing it all.

BigBudBalls said:

Size of the cab isn't much a factor (bigger is probably better)
You have a lamp that puts out x degrees. In a small cab the air temp will rise quicker then a large. but with no vent in the cab, the large and small will reach the same temp eventually. Smaller cab will hit that number faster; less air to heat up.

As for venting to the room vs out the window. If the main room has the thermostat then you should be fine. If the thermostat is down the hall, then results will vary.

If you do vent to the outside, pull from the outside too. (no sense tossing out the AC air to the birds and squirrels.)

Just try it out. Run the system for a week with no plants and see.

Its tough to give definitive answers without being there seeing it all.

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Good advice BudBalls. The room that the cab will be in does not have the thermostat. But I realize that temps will vary greatly from one room to another, from one person's house to another, and it is difficult if not impossible for anyone to tell me what to do.

If I vent to the outside, I'll probably end up pulling from the outside, as you have already suggested. But that is the problem all in itself. Stealth is an issue, and I havn't yet figured out a way to run a duct line from the cab to the window without it actually looking like (a) a duct is running from a cab, (b) the window is open, and (c) especially from the outside WTF is going on there. Know what I mean? If anyone has any pictures of how to disguise that, I would LOVE IT.

But I think you have given me the best advice ever. Build, run temps for a week, and recalibrate. I was just hoping not to do this with everything, as I'd end up with a patchwork pair of pants more so than an actual suit, if you get my drift.