Greasemonkey's Compost Pile

greasemonkeymann said:

Hmmm, well past the obvious unpleasant task of tuning a humanure pile... (gross)
, but a humanure pile is totally different, that's almost always with like sawdust and you WANT high thermophilic bacteria (to create heat to sterilize the bad/harmful bacteria)
for cannabis you don't need that, you want a "cooler" compost
whats their argument for turning less?
seems like a humanure pile would want the extra oxygen to match the microbial population increasing
but I don't know much about humanure piles
um.. that totally reads badly...
I think of this funny sand "castle"
View attachment 3827562

Click to expand...

Haha!
But nooo, there's a part on compost in general in the beginning, no humanure involved at all there.
They cite the results of controlled trials with different turning intensities, here's a quick visual:


The Humanure Handbook, 2005, 3rd Ed. p.49

Oh and actually it turns out that human pathogens (which they do look into alot more) are most effectively decimated at around 45°C - better even than at the usually cited 55-60°C. So going slow and being lazy is the best way to go about

greasemonkeymann said:

Hmmm, well past the obvious unpleasant task of tuning a humanure pile... (gross)
, but a humanure pile is totally different, that's almost always with like sawdust and you WANT high thermophilic bacteria (to create heat to sterilize the bad/harmful bacteria)
for cannabis you don't need that, you want a "cooler" compost
whats their argument for turning less?
seems like a humanure pile would want the extra oxygen to match the microbial population increasing
but I don't know much about humanure piles
um.. that totally reads badly...
I think of this funny sand "castle"
View attachment 3827562

Click to expand...

In America we consider it gross to use human feces as a fertilizer.

Its common all over the world to use human waste to feed plants.

There are several places in the US that transforms human solid waste into fertilizer. It is normally pumped into large concrete ponds and allowed to dry in the sun then tilled into soil.

I have used my own urine for a source of N. One part urine to nine parts water.

I wouldn't just compost my poop outside. They make composting toilets.

https://sun-mar.com/ Check it out.

There are places here that still have outhouses. Mainly rural areas with cabins. We have one at our cabin. We keep saw dust in the outhouse. Cover your waste after you are done. When the hole is full you move the outhouse and let the previous hole sit for a couple years then plant a fruit tree over it.

whitebb2727 said:

Its common all over the world to use human waste to feed plants.

Click to expand...

I have buddies that were stationed in South Korea and they had to run through the rice fields for morning PT. They said that they used human waste and it was a very common practice there.

MustangStudFarm said:

I have buddies that were stationed in South Korea and they had to run through the rice fields for morning PT. They said that they used human waste and it was a very common practice there.

Click to expand...

I have heard the same from vets.

People will use a urea based store bought feed but turn their nose at using urine. Ummm. Its the same thing.

As far as poop, I would want to be on a clean diet without prescription meds. I would use a composting toilet though.

https://sun-mar.com/prod_self_exce.html

Composting toilet. If more people used them we could take some burden off the water treatment plants.

calliandra said:

Haha!
But nooo, there's a part on compost in general in the beginning, no humanure involved at all there.
They cite the results of controlled trials with different turning intensities, here's a quick visual:

View attachment 3827584
The Humanure Handbook, p.49

Click to expand...

hmmmm... not sure I follow that logic though
where does the organic matter go when it's lost?
Doesn't it turn to humus?
it doesn't evaporate (well past ammonia gasoff)
and the nitrogen MUST be used as it's the primary food for the microbes
Bacteria plays a huuge role in plant nutrition. They lock up nutrients that might otherwise disappear as a result of leaching/washing away.. They do so by ingesting them while decomposing organic matter and retaining them in their cellular structures. Since the bacteria are themselves attached to soil particles, the nutrients remain in the soil instead of being washed away, as is the case with chemical fertilizers.
The ratio of carbon to nitrogen has to be right in order to make compost; the ideal C:N ratio for this is somewhere around 25:1 to 30:1. If you have too much carbon, nitrogen is quickly used up and the decay process slows. If you have too much nitrogen, organisms snatch it up and then carbon is vented to the atmosphere or mixed with water and washed out of the pile. But at the ideal ratio, things go fast, and decay is complete.
So we have two categories, brown and green. Aged, brown organic materials support fungi, while fresh, green organic materials support bacteria.
Brown items—including autumn leaves, bark, wood chips, twigs, and branches—contain carbon; carbon provides members of the soil food web with energy for metabolism. Green items— such things as grass clippings, fresh-picked weeds, kitchen scraps—contain plenty of the easier-to digest bacterial foods and are good nitrogen sources. The fresher the green item, the more nitrogen it will contribute to the pile. Nitrogen gives soil food web microbes with building blocks for proteins, which are used, among other things, to produce the digestive enzymes necessary in the decay process.
-parts of this are from teaming with microbes-

whitebb2727 said:

I have heard the same from vets.

People will use a urea based store bought feed but turn their nose at using urine. Ummm. Its the same thing.

As far as poop, I would want to be on a clean diet without prescription meds. I would use a composting toilet though.

https://sun-mar.com/prod_self_exce.html
View attachment 3827603
Composting toilet. If more people used them we could take some burden off the water treatment plants.

Click to expand...

so true, and honestly not a whole lot works as kickass from nitrogen than urine, you can "green-up" your plants damn near overnight with that
as far as the composting toilet, my main complaint would be that they are usually outside
I mean lets just face-it guys, it's the ladies that need their bathroom all fancy, us dudes can go anywhere
we are all dirty men

whitebb2727 said:

In America we consider it gross to use human feces as a fertilizer.

When the hole is full you move the outhouse and let the previous hole sit for a couple years then plant a fruit tree over it.

Click to expand...

nah, I don't think it's gross, but turning a humanure pile sure as shit sounds gross (pun intended)

whitebb2727 said:

I have heard the same from vets.

People will use a urea based store bought feed but turn their nose at using urine. Ummm. Its the same thing.

As far as poop, I would want to be on a clean diet without prescription meds. I would use a composting toilet though.

https://sun-mar.com/prod_self_exce.html
View attachment 3827603
Composting toilet. If more people used them we could take some burden off the water treatment plants.

Click to expand...

I lived in a cabin that had one of those worked great But that size is ok for a couple ppl
now a large family it don't compost human waste as fast as composter does garden waste
my landlord tould me to feed once in awhile with food scraps

whitebb2727 said:

In America we consider it gross to use human feces as a fertilizer.

Its common all over the world to use human waste to feed plants.

There are several places in the US that transforms human solid waste into fertilizer. It is normally pumped into large concrete ponds and allowed to dry in the sun then tilled into soil.

I have used my own urine for a source of N. One part urine to nine parts water.

I wouldn't just compost my poop outside. They make composting toilets.

https://sun-mar.com/ Check it out.

There are places here that still have outhouses. Mainly rural areas with cabins. We have one at our cabin. We keep saw dust in the outhouse. Cover your waste after you are done. When the hole is full you move the outhouse and let the previous hole sit for a couple years then plant a fruit tree over it.

Click to expand...

i just thought it was because of the pathogen nature in our stool. because it is necessary to handle our soil in gardening we should steer away from handling our feces in the process. but that's just why I wouldn't do it.

which is why I don't use urban compost from the drying ponds of solids from the waste treatment plants

greasemonkeymann said:

hmmmm... not sure I follow that logic though
where does the organic matter go when it's lost?
Doesn't it turn to humus?
it doesn't evaporate (well past ammonia gasoff)
and the nitrogen MUST be used as it's the primary food for the microbes

Click to expand...

Yeah I don't really get what they meant by organic matter being lost either.
The text doesn't go into the why and how of it. Actually it's part of a discussion of why turning isn't as essential to compost as we think.
Adding oxygen, for example, apparently the oxygen content improves for only 1.5hrs after turning. Thus it is argued to just make sure to add structuring material that will allow for oxygen to get into the pile as the more effective way of keeping the pile aerated.

greasemonkeymann said:

If you have too much carbon, nitrogen is quickly used up and the decay process slows.

Click to expand...

Yeah that's why I couldn't believe I have enough nitrogen...

greasemonkeymann said:

If you have too much nitrogen, organisms snatch it up and then carbon is vented to the atmosphere or mixed with water and washed out of the pile.

Click to expand...

Yeah and that is probably what happened when the pile was hot and left to itself right in the beginning -- it was totally dry inside when I turned it from the heat of the microbial action.
So maybe lots of nitrogen got fizzled there, and now I really have a situation where there isn't enough nitrogen left to reheat the pile.
Hm. Lesson learned.
Thanks!

greasemonkeymann said:

so true, and honestly not a whole lot works as kickass from nitrogen than urine, you can "green-up" your plants damn near overnight with that
as far as the composting toilet, my main complaint would be that they are usually outside
I mean lets just face-it guys, it's the ladies that need their bathroom all fancy, us dudes can go anywhere
we are all dirty men

Click to expand...

I reckon the one I posted is electric, self contained with no smell. Does everything on its own and you empty it.

I get what you mean by women and bathrooms though. Lol.

calliandra said:

Yeah I don't really get what they meant by organic matter being lost either.
The text doesn't go into the why and how of it. Actually it's part of a discussion of why turning isn't as essential to compost as we think.
Adding oxygen, for example, apparently the oxygen content improves for only 1.5hrs after turning. Thus it is argued to just make sure to add structuring material that will allow for oxygen to get into the pile as the more effective way of keeping the pile aerated.


Yeah that's why I couldn't believe I have enough nitrogen...


Yeah and that is probably what happened when the pile was hot and left to itself right in the beginning -- it was totally dry inside when I turned it from the heat of the microbial action.
So maybe lots of nitrogen got fizzled there, and now I really have a situation where there isn't enough nitrogen left to reheat the pile.
Hm. Lesson learned.
Thanks!

Click to expand...

it probably does evaporate. if the reaction gets too hot it steams, id bet the steam is alot of CO2 and that the carbon came from a solid. same with the nitrogen, since nitrogen tends to release as a gas. if the compound contained nitrogen itd probably form H20, CO2, N2, all that kinda shit is easily evaporated and can be formed from organic matter and heat. granted i could be easily wrong..


but does the pile overheat when it is left for too long or does it die back when left still for too long?

iHearAll said:

i just thought it was because of the pathogen nature in our stool. because it is necessary to handle our soil in gardening we should steer away from handling our feces in the process. but that's just why I wouldn't do it.

Click to expand...

Hell Plumbing is a recent thing compared to our history.

I get what you are saying but if one were healthy and didn't let anyone else use it, it is fairly safe to handle once composted.

Yes, it is a taboo thought but that is just a cultural thing.

calliandra said:

Yeah I don't really get what they meant by organic matter being lost either.
The text doesn't go into the why and how of it. Actually it's part of a discussion of why turning isn't as essential to compost as we think.
Adding oxygen, for example, apparently the oxygen content improves for only 1.5hrs after turning. Thus it is argued to just make sure to add structuring material that will allow for oxygen to get into the pile as the more effective way of keeping the pile aerated.


Yeah that's why I couldn't believe I have enough nitrogen...


Yeah and that is probably what happened when the pile was hot and left to itself right in the beginning -- it was totally dry inside when I turned it from the heat of the microbial action.
So maybe lots of nitrogen got fizzled there, and now I really have a situation where there isn't enough nitrogen left to reheat the pile.
Hm. Lesson learned.
Thanks!

Click to expand...

Yea, they say o2 can only penetrate about 18" on all sides, that's 45 cms to the rest of the world (stupid americans)
with the grass and such along with the manure, i'd bet that if you turned the pile while sprinkling lightly that it'd start smoldering soon enough
if not my favorite compost accelerator is fishmeal.
just remember that if you use fishmeal it undoubtedly will stick to your boots/shoes
same can be said about shrimpmeal (another good one to kick up the temps)
that all being said I still am confident that if you sprinkled and turned that it's be good to go.
hmmm... sprinkled and turned.... sounds like a kinky water-sports fetish..
gross

iHearAll said:

it probably does evaporate. if the reaction gets too hot it steams, id bet the steam is alot of CO2 and that the carbon came from a solid. same with the nitrogen, since nitrogen tends to release as a gas. if the compound contained nitrogen itd probably form H20, CO2, N2, all that kinda shit is easily evaporated and can be formed from organic matter and heat. granted i could be easily wrong..


but does the pile overheat when it is left for too long or does it die back when left still for too long?

Click to expand...

nah, the ammonia gasoff isn't predicated on temps, moreso incorrect ratio of carbon to nitrogen, and anaerobic conditions
the co2 is made regardless, but the ammonia gasoff (loss of nitrogen during compost)
it's almost always because of too little of carbon, or oxygen.
PH also plays a role to a degree also, but the ph in a compost pile fluctuates like crazy
but to answer your question a pile reaches it's highest "terminal" temp in like24-30 hrs, only goes down from there as the microbial diversity changes/switches.
.
when you turn the pile it actually temporarily cools, due to the added water and disruption of the whole process, but it doesn't take much more than 24 hrs to kick it back up.

greasemonkeymann said:

nah, the ammonia gasoff isn't predicated on temps, moreso incorrect ratio of carbon to nitrogen, and anaerobic conditions
the co2 is made regardless, but the ammonia gasoff (loss of nitrogen during compost)
it's almost always because of too little of carbon, or oxygen.
PH also plays a role to a degree also, but the ph in a compost pile fluctuates like crazy

Click to expand...

yea i believe it.

iHearAll said:

yea i believe it.

Click to expand...

the other thing I forgot to mention, is that biochar used while composting is the best way to ensure that almost nothing is lost, that controls the ammonia gasoff in more ways than one, also aerating the mix, as well as housing millions of microbes, and further still literally absorbing the nitrogen

calliandra said:

Haha!
But nooo, there's a part on compost in general in the beginning, no humanure involved at all there.
They cite the results of controlled trials with different turning intensities, here's a quick visual:

View attachment 3827584
The Humanure Handbook, 2005, 3rd Ed. p.49

Oh and actually it turns out that human pathogens (which they do look into alot more) are most effectively decimated at around 45°C - better even than at the usually cited 55-60°C. So going slow and being lazy is the best way to go about

Click to expand...

a cool thing you could do, if you wanted to, if you don’t also have the proper nutrient cyclers, specifically protozoa and nematodes,You can actually grow your own protozoa by bubbling fresh grass clippings, alfalfa, hay, or straw in water for three or four days.
you can literally see the protozoa with the naked eye, with good eyesight anyways.
but that "tea" used to moisten your pile would be a good way to keep the nutrients in the compost
sorta like a bokashi sort of thing, only you are making aerobic microbes instead of anaerobic ones

so i could jump start my leaf pile with some alfalfa pellets evenly sprinkled into newly & old leaf collection ??