Get a Harvest Every 2 Weeks

Dubbuh said:

this thread is awesome. you dah man. i know ur first post is from like a year ago, but man nice system i've been inspired.

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Thanks. If you like what you see so far, hang around. I'm about to put a set of cooltubes on my 1000s. Things will improve yet again, I hope.

Al B. Fuct said:

Clay pellets hold next to no water at all. You can flood mature plants in pellets for about 2-3 min every 60-90min during lights-on. The flood level should not reach the rockwool cube. Keeping the cube saturated will cause you grief. Plants in pellets should be hand watered from the top a couple of times a day for the first week or until you see roots poking out from the pot drain holes. Avoid saturating the RW cube when hand watering.

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So, just for clarification, once my plants have roots coming out the bottom of their 4in rockwool cubes, you suggest that all I do is keep the pellets where the roots are growing. moist on a regular basis throughout the lights-on period. Are you saying that once the plants are mature with roots extending well into the clay pellets, I never need to water them from the top again? Thanks for your insight.

so how would one trim/train plants say a flood tray that measures 16" by 8" and wanted to fit 4 plants in there


how would i keep things from getting to overcrowded?

SoloGro57 said:

Are you saying that once the plants are mature with roots extending well into the clay pellets, I never need to water them from the top again?

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Yep!

LoudBlunts said:

so how would one trim/train plants say a flood tray that measures 16" by 8" and wanted to fit 4 plants in there


how would i keep things from getting to overcrowded?

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Read back a few posts - I cover that in detail.

i was just making sure im doing everything right.

i wanna prune a lil in 1 and 3 week of flowering too...

give it up to AL B for 1000 posts on his next post!!!

this really is a great thread... and a prime example on how to setup a very proffesional grow... thank you for taking your time and sharing it with us!

No prob, LjI, thanks for that.

I suppose this one is appropriate for post #1000...

Need to run 2 cooltubes for the 2x 1000W HPS in the flowering area. Went out and got some, trying them out in mockup.

Was thinking about running them in series to avoid having a Y pipe and extra 150mm ducting running around.



This test setup on my garage floor is with one cooltube and a single 1000. Raises the air temp about 8-9C (note dual digital thermo readings, remote sensor is in the output airflow)- I might be able to get away with running them in series.



Wouldn't feel too bad about feeding cooling air at 30C into the second tube.



Try THIS on a fully warmed up 1000 without a cooltube.... yes, it runs cool enough to lay your hand on the cooltube- and leave it there.

I only have one spare 1000 ballast, will have to pull one out of the op to try this out fully in mockup with two running 1000s. Not in the mood to muck with it any more just now, will do it later... but I think I'll probably see output air temp at about 40C. Will keep a LOT of heat out of the flowering room airmass.

I am concerned about how much light will be lost through the cooltube glass. I have a lux meter and will do some comparisons.

I don't much like the reflector in the cooltubes- I'd prefer to be able to use these tubes with my existing batwing shades. The cooltube reflectors will be cut out and the cooltubes will be fitted to my batwings to keep the highly adjustable light spread. I will lose the sliding tube socket mount now used by the batwings, but I think I'll get by. I don't change that adjustment often anyway.

wow man great thread....im thinkin bout doing something like you in my closet but spit it into three sections ...one for the mothers,one with a 400w hps for 1-4 weeks,and another for 4-8 weeks with a 400w hps and as for clones have a rubbermaid custom clone box with lid for cuttings and this will all be grown in organic soil with either 2 or 3 gallon grow bags you think it might work????? ......

Thanks for answering my stupid question about 40mm cubes! A few more questions for you which I hope are a little more taxing!

1) You mentioned that you top your mothers - what height do you do this and do you do it regularly (during every regeneration of the mother)?

2) I have read through your thread a few times and the set up that excites me is a DWC with your method. I found container on the web that illustrates my idea:

If I used 4 of these, one per phase and also 1 for the mothers - I think that would be a decent set up for the small-medium grower as you could influence each stage exclusively. My question regarding this set up is about the nutes. I read somewhere that you have to use a lower nute ppm for DWC as the roots are in contact with the water all the time. Is this true and if so - what ppm should I use for the stages you use?

tech209 said:

this will all be grown in organic soil with either 2 or 3 gallon grow bags you think it might work????? ......

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I wouldn't do soil. Heavy, messy, much less productive than flood hydro.

Scotland said:

1) You mentioned that you top your mothers - what height do you do this and do you do it regularly (during every regeneration of the mother)?

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I don't really aim for any specific height to trim the mums back to. It's usually a battle to cut them down severely enough so that they're not growing into the mums' 400 HPS in 15 days' time, when I'll next need a batch of cuttings. Have a look at this thread I did about cloning. Gives some idea on how to handle pruning mums.

Beyond snipping all growing tips remaining after doing a batch of cuttings, I do cut back woody mainstem growth on 'older' mums (more than about 6-8 wks) to force the mum to sprout branches from lower down on the plant, if only to keep the plants from getting too tall.

Eventually, the older mums' woody mainstems make the plant too tall to allow sufficient fresh growth to provide cuttings, while staying out of the light. I thank the old mums for all the great clones- and put them unceremoniously in the compost. My veg patch out back yums up composted cannabis plant waste quite happily. I put at least 2-3kg of cannabis trimming waste in the compost every time I do a pass of cuttings and harvest a tray. Totally gone in 7-10 days, depending on temperature. I just may have the happiest compost worms on earth.

2) I have read through your thread a few times and the set up that excites me is a DWC with your method. I found container on the web that illustrates my idea:

If I used 4 of these, one per phase and also 1 for the mothers - I think that would be a decent set up for the small-medium grower as you could influence each stage exclusively. My question regarding this set up is about the nutes. I read somewhere that you have to use a lower nute ppm for DWC as the roots are in contact with the water all the time. Is this true and if so - what ppm should I use for the stages you use?

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Very well spotted. If ever there was a practical way to do a DWC/aero SoG, I think you've found it. O2 to the roots is the name of the game and eliminating non-O2 bearing media, as this tub system would do, is the only way forward. DWC/aero maximises O2 contact with roots and thus productivity.

I've considered ways of doing an aero or DWC SoG in the past but always found it too complex in terms of daily usage as well as limits on plant mobility. Plants in this system you picture won't be quite as mobile as they are in pots of media as rootmasses will eventually knit. I like to be able to pick up plants and move them around in their trays from time to time to allow slower performers to be in more preferential light positions as well as to have full access to all sides of the plant for spraying, etc.

If I ran a tub system like this as a DWC, I'd probably use a master nutrient tank and plumb water lines to each tub, to make bi-weekly nute dumps easier. You'd only have to dump the master tank, perhaps flush the system with pH 5.5-5.8 water before mixing up a new master tank of nutes. I'd also put air stones/bubble curtains in the master and plant tubs.

It could run as an aero if the tubs were tall enough to allow the roots to hang in the mist over the water level yet allow sufficient space for a decent amount of water capacity. 6 plants will suck up 6-10 litres per day depending on level of development. Mist from a bubble curtain in the tub will do fine. Aero systems which make their mist by forcing water through spray apertures are prone to failure through clogging of their sprayers with nute salts unless cleaned AT LEAST every 2 days.

When an air pump fails in DWC, roots will very quickly die. When an air pump fails in an aero system, the plants will wilt, also within a few hours. Aero or DWC systems should have redundant air pumps- and you should keep spares on hand. Air pumps always quit on holiday weekends.

You have to remember, I'm a lazy frickin' stoner. I use the flood system because it's dead-set easy, doesn't require frequent cleaning and has some failsafes. Flood systems using absorbent media can get plants through a couple of days when a pump has failed and I haven't looked in on the op, as I am prone to do and as often happens with cheap aquarium pumps...

Nute strength in DWC won't be too different to flood, aim for 1400ppm, pH around 5.5-5.8. DWC systems seem to like some added Mg so chuck in about a teaspoon of Epsom Salts per 100L of tank volume when you mix up a fresh tank of nutes every second week.

Have a go. I think you'll find it a bit fiddly in the long term, but it'll grow some nice plants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tech209
this will all be grown in organic soil with either 2 or 3 gallon grow bags you think it might work????? ......

I wouldn't do soil. Heavy, messy, much less productive than flood hydro.


so when you say less productive...you talkin about less yield vs the ebb and flow???? really dont want to deal with hydro and all that water being all over the place....wanted to work with 40 2 gal grow bags filled with fox farm ocean forest but hey everyone has their op right....organic sog here i come.......

tech209 said:

so when you say less productive...you talkin about less yield vs the ebb and flow????

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Yep.

really dont want to deal with hydro and all that water being all over the place....wanted to work with 40 2 gal grow bags filled with fox farm ocean forest but hey everyone has their op right....organic sog here i come.......

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There's not 'water all over the place' in hydro ops- unless they leak!

If you feel like lumping 40 bags of soil into your house every few weeks... and finding a way to dispose 40 WET bags of soil after use... you have a lot more patience and energy than I do.

Al B. Fuct said:

Yep.



There's not 'water all over the place' in hydro ops- unless they leak!

If you feel like lumping 40 bags of soil into your house every few weeks... and finding a way to dispose 40 WET bags of soil after use... you have a lot more patience and energy than I do.

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ditto my space is 5'Lx2'Wx6'H will be using 2 400w hps just need to look for a tray if i am going that route to fit in their also leaving space for my mama's on another note do you even flush during the last week????? i also noticed that u use 8'' pots wuts the gallon on those????? can u use grow bags in ebbnflow????......

Be careful of labels. 'Organic' isn't always good. I'm delighted to run a non-organic media, chemical nute fueled op. Means I have only one organism to worry about- the plants.

A 175mm x 200mm pot, as I use, would hold 1.271328 US gallons. Roughly 100 grams of rockwool, about 90g of Fytocell... or about 2-3kg for wet soil.

Don't even think about trying to water containers of soil with a flood system. Silt & grit will get loose and destroy the water pump.

Al B. Fuct said:

Be careful of labels. 'Organic' isn't always good. I'm delighted to run a non-organic media, chemical nute fueled op. Means I have only one organism to worry about- the plants.

A 175mm x 200mm pot, as I use, would hold 1.271328 US gallons. Roughly 100 grams of rockwool, about 90g of Fytocell... or about 2-3kg for wet soil.

Don't even think about trying to water containers of soil with a flood system. Silt & grit will get loose and destroy the water pump.

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but my mycorrhizae and other beneficial bacteria ARE MY FRIENDS
but my teas stink, especially with the different poos in it... hahha

i agree though for a more massive op i'd go chem nutes... follow a strict regimine (lucas formula is nice and easy)
maybe do hempy buckets though if i didn't want to mess with water pumps and whatnot...

Al B. Fuct said:

Be careful of labels. 'Organic' isn't always good. I'm delighted to run a non-organic media, chemical nute fueled op. Means I have only one organism to worry about- the plants.

A 175mm x 200mm pot, as I use, would hold 1.271328 US gallons. Roughly 100 grams of rockwool, about 90g of Fytocell... or about 2-3kg for wet soil.

Don't even think about trying to water containers of soil with a flood system. Silt & grit will get loose and destroy the water pump.

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oooooohhhhhh yeeeeaaaahhhhh i know better that to place soil in a ebb n flow...that a big dee de deeeeeeee move right there but you do got a point its gonna cost me almost the same if i just go with the ebb n flow method now in search of 1x2 trays for my closet oh on another note to save space cant i just use the clippings that are done during the 2-3 weeks for clones insted of having the mother plants so i got more space to work with....

since you dont like organic and other mediums....what do you do with your used RW? i think the only reason why im going organic medium(if not all organic) at least is because...i feel that i could discard my used rapid rooter plugs/ coco starter plugs easier than RW....as well as the coco medium and the like.

Second question, im pretty sure you're oldschool. So can you school me on these slabs? Hw would one flood the slab? Would you open the ends? and just leave the wrapping elsewhere? Would i also cut just a spot out for my netpot or cube? Or could I just unwrap the whole thing use it/fill the flood tray as if im filling a pot with soil? Then putting my plug or cube in the medium? covering the top necessary right? would the particles dust whatever from the slab fuck up my ebb and flo connectors?

im really interested in these coco....


next question i have about that cooltube...how are you properly cooling that? are you blowing air thru the tube with a fan on both ends one blowing other exhausting?? whas the most efficient way to cool an aircooled hood (cuz apparently im all wrong)

tech209 said:

on another note to save space cant i just use the clippings that are done during the 2-3 weeks for clones insted of having the mother plants so i got more space to work with....

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Cuttings taken from plants which have been under flowering cycle lighting for more than a week or so are notoriously slow to set root. The longer the donor plant has been in flower, the harder it is to get them to strike. If your first batch of cuttings from your plants in flower doesn't take, your next set won't be much better.

Keeping mums seems a hassle but it's necessary insurance. You really only need 2 mums, one you're taking cuts from and one vegging up to be your next mum, as well as being insurance against an unexpected death of the mum you're actively using.

Cuttings taken from plants in constant veg lighting set root most readily and perform best in the no-veg-time SoG environment. In SoG, we depend on the plants continuing to be in a declining veg mode for the first 2-3 wks of flowering so they will gain some height, while beginning to develop bud sites. It's best if the clones have come from plants in constant veg and have themselves been kept under veg cycle lighting in the clonebox so they are still in veg mode when they set root and get chucked in the flowering area.

LoudBlunts said:

since you dont like organic and other mediums....what do you do with your used RW? i think the only reason why im going organic medium(if not all organic) at least is because...i feel that i could discard my used rapid rooter plugs/ coco starter plugs easier than RW....as well as the coco medium and the like.

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When I can be bothered, I point a fan at pots of old media just sitting on the floor until the material is dry. Most times, I don't bother to dry the stuff out. I usually take plants out of the op a day or two before I start work on manicuring, so the plant is still sucking up water from the media, making the stuff fairly lightweight by the time to turf it out. Dry or not, I just bag it in ordinary looking rubbish bags and dispose of it in common rubbish. Your mileage may vary- of course, media disposal is a security issue and you're the best judge of your situation.

Second question, im pretty sure you're oldschool.

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If 'oldschool' means 'using stuff known to work,' I'll go with that.

So can you school me on these slabs? Hw would one flood the slab? Would you open the ends? and just leave the wrapping elsewhere? Would i also cut just a spot out for my netpot or cube? Or could I just unwrap the whole thing use it/fill the flood tray as if im filling a pot with soil? Then putting my plug or cube in the medium? covering the top necessary right? would the particles dust whatever from the slab fuck up my ebb and flo connectors?

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I presume you're referring to rockwool slabs. I don't use them. I use rockwool floc, which is simply crumbled rockwool sold in bulk bags.

im really interested in these coco....

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You're on your own with coco. It's an organic medium and I can't advise you.

next question i have about that cooltube...how are you properly cooling that? are you blowing air thru the tube with a fan on both ends one blowing other exhausting?? whas the most efficient way to cool an aircooled hood (cuz apparently im all wrong)

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The fan should be pushing cool air into the cooltube. Arranging the fan so it is in the warm air stream on the output end would quickly overheat the blower's fan motor.

I've seen aircooled hoods which, by absence of a sheet of glass over the lamp, require that you put the fan in the warm airstream. Really poor design. These hoods will eat exhaust fans. A proper aircooled hood should be sealed up so you can force air into it and just connect a duct from a warm air output port to dispose of the hot stuff, without running it through another fan.

just a few questions...

~u get about 3/4 of an ounce per plant on avg?

~how deep do you flood a table? is there a specific method to figuring it out depending on the numbers of plants?

~will a 1000watt HPS light be fine for 2 4'x5' tables? seems like overkill on the lumens. then again, im probably doing the calculations wrong.

~i can fit 4 plants per square foot right? so that means around 80 plants on a 4x5 table?

~how do i figure the number of mums needed to provide the number of cuttings i need for those size tables?

~i got the exhaust set for full air exchange every 2-3 minutes. but what about air intake for fresh air?

all i could think of at the moment. thx in advance for any and all help given