bob harris
Well-Known Member
GREAT. show me some data to back that up, and lets figure out how to re invest the 8 million. How do we know it's not in a fund sitting somewhere, without data? There are records somewhere...
Farmer's market may have troubles...
- Thread starter bob harris
- Start date
bob harris
Well-Known Member
Nice meaning less post..thanks for the help
ozzrokk
Well-Known Member
I dont have the figures on hand. But I did see them. I will not do any more reasearch for you bob. If you want to believe that the State is not using the funds elsewhere well I dont know what to tell you. You think they do no wrong. The only reason there is a charge for the program is to get only enough to maintain the program. That has not happened.
What are your thoughts on them taking 6 months to get the cards out and not answer the phone and not call people back when they are having trouble or questions? I have heard leo say that at times they cannot get ahold of them to verify a card during business hours. Is that alright?
bob harris
Well-Known Member
Nope..they should work faster. They were overwhelmed at the start of the program..they have got the new card printer and are catching up. You just have to point to others shortcomings..it's all you got.
I'm not asking you to do research for me..never have. Just asking for the source of your opinion. Figured you must have already done the research if you have the answer. You speculate..post your opinion as fact..then to justify say that you won't do research for me..what a load.
Timmahh
Well-Known Member
i ll lay out the biggest financial issue with the money going to the Gen fund opposed to staying with MDCH as we voted for.
ok, lets hypothesize the Dept has a problem. Lets further hypothesize it is an issue with, oh let's say the printer/s.
Now, We put the Authority and the money for the program into the one department to run. So printer has problems, Department has the personal and finances from the Registry funds to be fully self reliant. They see the Issue, get it diagnosed, a solution is determined, and solution is implemented. This can be done efficiently, with minimal time wasted, and minimal financial drain on the funds while solving the issue, as the entire process is handled with in it's Own Department as outlined.
One office, had all the means at its disposal, just as the Act was passed, to fully run the program from beginning to end with No fuss no muss.
Now lets look at what happens in the same scenario when the funds are moved to the General Fund of the State, and the authority to make program decisions is removed from the MDCH.
Actually, just a look back at over the last year of time will show us exactly how it was handled...
So, the issue was noted. MMMP has to inform LARA of the issue. Issue needs to be Diagnosed. LARA arranges Tech to investigate issue and find a solution. Solution is found and given to LARA. We can guesstimate this took a week or two, just to get the tech to check the issue out.
After 2 or more weeks of LARA meetings to determine most fiscally inexpensive way to the solution, A decision is made to buy new printers to solve issue.
LARA submits request for monies to buy said new printer, from the State Appropriations Committee. This takes an additional month or more of time to investigate the need for a new Printer, to legitimize its need with a few days of hearings from the personal at LARA making the financial request. Then after bean counting the least amount they are willing to let go to the pot program, and authorize the funds for LARA to buy said new printer. Order is made, Order is not shipped until payment is received in full. this takes another 3 to 4 weeks or more until payment is received, then printer is shipped (or ordered from the factory if not in stock). Once order is filled, Back to LARA to have the State Techs install, setup, and program printer. Finally, after 6 to 9 months, the new printer is in place and starting to catch up on a nearly 7 month long backlog of cards for participants of the program....
Now, of course some of this is general assumption of how the scenario played out, but we can not neglect the hard fact, this printer issue took nearly 9 months to get resolved... When, if it was handled completely by the MDCH as the Act states, we could also then further guesstimate the cost savings to the program, And more importantly to the Taxpayers of the State, who were not supposed to have to pay for ANY cost of running this program, as the program is self funded by the Registry Card Fees... impo, this move by Snyder, only made matter much worse for the State, the Taxpayers, and more importantly, the Patients and Caregivers of those Patients.
Now a bit deeper look to the financial side of this game.
Note: Any office that is NOT the MMMP, is funded by the Taxpayers of Michigan, NOT the Registrants of the MMMP. And while the cost for the printer came from the money collected by the registry, the cost of everything that needed to happen in the state in regard to buying and installing this printer was the financial responsibility of the State, not the MMM registry program, now that they do not have sole authority to run the program.
So what "Other" offices would of been effected by the printer issue in the MMMP...
LARA, General State Accounting Offices, General Fund employee salaries, Appropriation Committee salaries, Representatives on the committee ect... as well as any other offices required to procure the solution, the office that is to implement the solution, not to mention the Legislative hearings to approve the funds as any money to be spent from the General Fund must be done so by the Appropriations Committee.
Every one of these offices are funded by the general Taxpayer. That means the Taxpayer of Michigan is partially paying for the funding and running of the State MMMP Program. All because Rick Snyder, made the illegal move of the MMMP from MDCH, to LARA, and took the funds to the general fund of the State. This makes the tax payer liable for cost of running certain aspects of the MMMP which was NOT how the Act was supposed to function on the funding and running of the program.
The Program was to be self funded, and held accountable for the entire program, and that has not been possible since Feb or March 2010, when the illegal move was made.
As far as other "ISSUES" that result from the moving of the Authority to run, and the Money to the General Fund, They are many.
Interestingly, we only need to look back to one yr ago, to see exactly how a simple issue as a printer problem, can cause Major malfunctions in the operation of the program, when it was removed from MDCH, and split up to multiple offices of the State...
So in summation, the illegal move of the MMM Program, has certainly cost the Registry Office additional money, time, hassle, as well as card delays to Authorized Patients and Caregivers, ect, but has also now cost the State and the Taxpayers an untold sum of monies, just to see that the MMM Program gets the equipment and/or personal that is needed to operate effeciently.
When had the change not happened, the issue would of almost certainly been a small bump in the road lasting up to a month or perhaps a bit longer, opposed to the 7 plus month train wreck it was. And we can be assured the total cost would of been absorbed by the MMMP Registry, and Zero Cost would of been deferred to the Taxpayers.
ok, lets hypothesize the Dept has a problem. Lets further hypothesize it is an issue with, oh let's say the printer/s.
Now, We put the Authority and the money for the program into the one department to run. So printer has problems, Department has the personal and finances from the Registry funds to be fully self reliant. They see the Issue, get it diagnosed, a solution is determined, and solution is implemented. This can be done efficiently, with minimal time wasted, and minimal financial drain on the funds while solving the issue, as the entire process is handled with in it's Own Department as outlined.
One office, had all the means at its disposal, just as the Act was passed, to fully run the program from beginning to end with No fuss no muss.
Now lets look at what happens in the same scenario when the funds are moved to the General Fund of the State, and the authority to make program decisions is removed from the MDCH.
Actually, just a look back at over the last year of time will show us exactly how it was handled...
So, the issue was noted. MMMP has to inform LARA of the issue. Issue needs to be Diagnosed. LARA arranges Tech to investigate issue and find a solution. Solution is found and given to LARA. We can guesstimate this took a week or two, just to get the tech to check the issue out.
After 2 or more weeks of LARA meetings to determine most fiscally inexpensive way to the solution, A decision is made to buy new printers to solve issue.
LARA submits request for monies to buy said new printer, from the State Appropriations Committee. This takes an additional month or more of time to investigate the need for a new Printer, to legitimize its need with a few days of hearings from the personal at LARA making the financial request. Then after bean counting the least amount they are willing to let go to the pot program, and authorize the funds for LARA to buy said new printer. Order is made, Order is not shipped until payment is received in full. this takes another 3 to 4 weeks or more until payment is received, then printer is shipped (or ordered from the factory if not in stock). Once order is filled, Back to LARA to have the State Techs install, setup, and program printer. Finally, after 6 to 9 months, the new printer is in place and starting to catch up on a nearly 7 month long backlog of cards for participants of the program....
Now, of course some of this is general assumption of how the scenario played out, but we can not neglect the hard fact, this printer issue took nearly 9 months to get resolved... When, if it was handled completely by the MDCH as the Act states, we could also then further guesstimate the cost savings to the program, And more importantly to the Taxpayers of the State, who were not supposed to have to pay for ANY cost of running this program, as the program is self funded by the Registry Card Fees... impo, this move by Snyder, only made matter much worse for the State, the Taxpayers, and more importantly, the Patients and Caregivers of those Patients.
Now a bit deeper look to the financial side of this game.
Note: Any office that is NOT the MMMP, is funded by the Taxpayers of Michigan, NOT the Registrants of the MMMP. And while the cost for the printer came from the money collected by the registry, the cost of everything that needed to happen in the state in regard to buying and installing this printer was the financial responsibility of the State, not the MMM registry program, now that they do not have sole authority to run the program.
So what "Other" offices would of been effected by the printer issue in the MMMP...
LARA, General State Accounting Offices, General Fund employee salaries, Appropriation Committee salaries, Representatives on the committee ect... as well as any other offices required to procure the solution, the office that is to implement the solution, not to mention the Legislative hearings to approve the funds as any money to be spent from the General Fund must be done so by the Appropriations Committee.
Every one of these offices are funded by the general Taxpayer. That means the Taxpayer of Michigan is partially paying for the funding and running of the State MMMP Program. All because Rick Snyder, made the illegal move of the MMMP from MDCH, to LARA, and took the funds to the general fund of the State. This makes the tax payer liable for cost of running certain aspects of the MMMP which was NOT how the Act was supposed to function on the funding and running of the program.
The Program was to be self funded, and held accountable for the entire program, and that has not been possible since Feb or March 2010, when the illegal move was made.
As far as other "ISSUES" that result from the moving of the Authority to run, and the Money to the General Fund, They are many.
Interestingly, we only need to look back to one yr ago, to see exactly how a simple issue as a printer problem, can cause Major malfunctions in the operation of the program, when it was removed from MDCH, and split up to multiple offices of the State...
So in summation, the illegal move of the MMM Program, has certainly cost the Registry Office additional money, time, hassle, as well as card delays to Authorized Patients and Caregivers, ect, but has also now cost the State and the Taxpayers an untold sum of monies, just to see that the MMM Program gets the equipment and/or personal that is needed to operate effeciently.
When had the change not happened, the issue would of almost certainly been a small bump in the road lasting up to a month or perhaps a bit longer, opposed to the 7 plus month train wreck it was. And we can be assured the total cost would of been absorbed by the MMMP Registry, and Zero Cost would of been deferred to the Taxpayers.
ozzrokk
Well-Known Member
Just as I thought bob. They were overwhelmed in the begining? It has been that way for 3 YEARS..... They still are NOT CAUGHT UP........ STILL..... I listened to them for 2 years say they were waiting on a printer. You buy into that? You think they can do no wrong. And you are WRONG. I will not sit here and argue with you about it. YOU ARE WRONG BOB........
You want to figure out how to reinvest the excess money? How bout we start with getting the cards out on time?
Timmahh
Well-Known Member
- approximate income in Nov 2011 was nearly 11million, while the cost to run the program was close to 4 million, leaving a plus 7 million dollar balance in the black.
documentation is on the States Site. It should also be available in the Program records of the MMMP.
Timmahh
Well-Known Member
tomcatjones
Active Member
and a lot of things looks bad to me from the outside but the old idiom was made to reason that inferior logic- the book and it's cover. remember?
anything you keep bringing up against. only reinforces EDUCATION being the key principles.
sorry but your pain killer Walgreen and wal-mart argument about having a social consumption room is also flawed for the same reason and more:
1. i wish i wish i wish they did have one! - so all those people can hang out and talk about all the nasty side effects and ungodly costs and poor service.
2. many of the farmer's markets have a try it before you buy. or wish they could. vaping a bag with the grower is a great way of learning the meds. and you damn well know that cannabis strains are important, and the variety that a farmer's market provides is the best. many strains have been passed up by me and others just because of the no consumption on site
3. these market places are great education tools in which you are building a community. you may not know much about that considering the divisiveness you love to bring, but the community is the goal. where you can cycle in new members easily as well as providing for those who truly need it. meaning a large focus on non-profit donations and a rick simpson oil bank.
FatMarty
Well-Known Member
You smoke marijuana with cops?
You are sick Bob. Very, very sick.
Definately not Dispensary material.
Let's put it like this: Would you give you a Casino license?
Do you think this State will put less weight on a Dispensary license?
You admit to breaking the law with leo and breaking it before and after this program started.
Conspiring with leo to break State and Federal laws with Schedule 1 narcotics is a serious character flaw.
You might be able to get a a table at the Farmers Market though...
bob harris
Well-Known Member
Ozz..I never said "they can do no wrong". Again, you simple throw disgust at minutia, with no input on solution. It's your only plan..chaos
bob harris
Well-Known Member
And your point, in regards to distribution?
bob harris
Well-Known Member
I do my own research...how about you offer suggestions to move forward, rather than drooling on youself with "it's all thier fault" ramble?
Your all upset about this only because you NEED a reason to complain. Can't change the [past..all I ask is that you do something to improve the future...but you always cover your lack of actual ideas, with 'the man got me down"
Timmahh
Well-Known Member
well bobbyj. imagine what the MMMP could be doing, or could have been done, had the Funds we pay, STAYED in the MMMP Program Account, opposed to be stolen illegally by the Governor.
Image what the Department could of had accomplished, and the huge savings to the taxpayers, had this Peoples Initiative not been illegally manipulated, and violated by the Suedo Republicans in the majority of this states corporate government...
but alas, the DEA and FBI didnt tell you what to think, so I know I have no hope of explaining a distribution model that would actually work, and try to teach something to YOU.
This isnt rocket science there mr 178 IQ. so it should be a breeze to see where im heading with just the 2 points i have outlined.
if your so damn intelligent, Use your melon and Theorize. See if your as smart as I am and can figure out what my next point will be.
Image what the Department could of had accomplished, and the huge savings to the taxpayers, had this Peoples Initiative not been illegally manipulated, and violated by the Suedo Republicans in the majority of this states corporate government...
but alas, the DEA and FBI didnt tell you what to think, so I know I have no hope of explaining a distribution model that would actually work, and try to teach something to YOU.
This isnt rocket science there mr 178 IQ. so it should be a breeze to see where im heading with just the 2 points i have outlined.
if your so damn intelligent, Use your melon and Theorize. See if your as smart as I am and can figure out what my next point will be.
bob harris
Well-Known Member
Timmahh, my rabbit is smarter than you. Cuter to I'd wager.
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gladstoned
Well-Known Member
That should be your avatar. Not as many people would yell at you.
Wheelchairs mean nothing. A wheelchair could mean someone is paralyzed and feels no pain. A lack of a wheelchair could mean that their treatment, I.E. MMJ is working and hence they have mobility, or it could also mean that their injury is not in their leg or does not completely preclude them from walking. I have severe nerve damage in my leg and I limp a lot when I walk but sometimes I have a good day and I can run around for a while (though I usually pay the price of increased pain later). I'm young and "look" healthy though I am taking something like 8 different medications a day.
Don't. Judge. I don't see you in a wheelchair.
One of the greatest challenges a chronic pain patient faces - even ones who have no interest in MMJ - is people judging them because they don't "look sick." The social stigma is enormous and it leads to debilitating issues with self esteem, self worth, and social anxiety.
RE: the "party mood": would the atmosphere of a funeral be more appropriate? Joy and laughter heal! We all know this. You should be glad to see a medical setting where people actually smile and enjoy themselves, instead of sit around quietly sick with anxiety about their problems!
FatMarty
Well-Known Member
Hey being fat doesn't mean you are lazy.
If I wasn't so tired right now I would explain it to you.
Has it ever occured to you that some of us have beaten bulimia?
Others got tired of the passenger side springs wearing out all the time once their old lady got fat and decided there was only one way to fix the car.
Plus sitting on someone to end the fight is fun for everyone.
If I wasn't so tired right now I would explain it to you.
Has it ever occured to you that some of us have beaten bulimia?
Others got tired of the passenger side springs wearing out all the time once their old lady got fat and decided there was only one way to fix the car.
Plus sitting on someone to end the fight is fun for everyone.
abe supercro
Well-Known Member
Four zingers, pretty good Marty. I like the "got bulimia beat" joke the best. Yes, explain it all to us when you are less tired, haha. Guess they don't call you Phat Marty for nothing!