Experienced Electrician! Here to Answer Any and All Growroom Electrical Questions

HID lamps such as HPS and MH require the corresponding ballast in the correct wattage, you can't just plug them into a wall.
The arc inside the bulb creates negative resistance, which will draw more current than the breaker will handle, and so it will trip. A ballast works by limiting the current to a certain amount (which is why it's wattage must be matched to that of the bulb) which the bulb is designed to operate at.

I've a question I'd like to put to someone who has the experience to give me a definitive, well explained answer.
Is it, or is it not bad practice to use a MH bulb (not conversion or pulse start) in a HPS ballast without altering it ie: removing the ignitor?
Am I right in thinking that at the least it would shorten the lifespan of the bulb, and possibly constitute a safety hazard?
This is the thread where the question has been discussed https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/207243-dual-spectrum-lights.html but we can't seem to resolve the issue conclusively, so I'm referring it here in the hope someone can enlighten me.
Mygirls, who says there is no cause for concern, cites as his main evidence the fact that he does it and it works. However he also states that he runs 1000w lights with no grounding wire and that he has pluged the same lights straight into the mains (sans ballast), then reset the breaker and did it again.
Can someone help me out here? I've done a thourough search but havn't been able to turn up a decisive answer that has supporting evidence.
Sorry for the long post, and I don't mean to insult mygirls, I just want to know one way or the other, then I can rest easy.

Wow thi is a great source of info. I hope some of you expert electricians can find some time to reply to another electricity question.

I'm moving indoor now versus outdoor for security and hopefully quality purposes. The exterior of my 5'x7'x8'h closet/gro room is on the same exterior wall as my main panel-about 50' away. I hve a 50amp subpanel that is also on the same outside wall for a spa that i no longer use. The romex runs underground and passes right by the potential grow room.

Should i run new wire and put in dedicated circuits or use the wire that is alreay running in conduit outside the room? This is the theory part but i really need basic info on the procedure of actually doing one or the other correctly. I work with wires a lot but we do low voltage stuff and this high voltage stuff sort of has me worried for safety etc...

i'm going to have all the typical equipment and i want the room to be high end quality. Thinking of 4 600 or 1000 watt hids eventualy, light timer, water pump, fans, a/c unit, co2, etc...

So i have pics of my panel in hopes of getting advice as to waht this panel can handle and the best way of doing it as opposed tothe cheapest. Hiring an electrician is too risky IMO.

thanks

DMC65 said:

Wow thi is a great source of info. I hope some of you expert electricians can find some time to reply to another electricity question.

I'm moving indoor now versus outdoor for security and hopefully quality purposes. The exterior of my 5'x7'x8'h closet/gro room is on the same exterior wall as my main panel-about 50' away. I hve a 50amp subpanel that is also on the same outside wall for a spa that i no longer use. The romex runs underground and passes right by the potential grow room.

Should i run new wire and put in dedicated circuits or use the wire that is alreay running in conduit outside the room? This is the theory part but i really need basic info on the procedure of actually doing one or the other correctly. I work with wires a lot but we do low voltage stuff and this high voltage stuff sort of has me worried for safety etc...

i'm going to have all the typical equipment and i want the room to be high end quality. Thinking of 4 600 or 1000 watt hids eventualy, light timer, water pump, fans, a/c unit, co2, etc...

So i have pics of my panel in hopes of getting advice as to waht this panel can handle and the best way of doing it as opposed tothe cheapest. Hiring an electrician is too risky IMO.

thanks

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Well... lets take a quick look. 4 600 watt light is way overkill for a 5x7 space, 2 would be plenty. If there is not a plan to expand the size of the grow area then the 50 amp sub panel should be enough. You can figure what total of amps you need by dividing the watts by the volts if the amperage is not listed on the equipment.
If you are going to use more space and add more equipment then you might consider a new sub panel and changing the service to 200 amp. Your existing panel is loaded, most houses are now days. I did mine that way with a little difference, I installed to 200amp box in the workshop and ran the 100amp to the old panel from the new panel.
The work is the same in any case, simple as a,b,c and sometimes d. Black, white, green and when d is present it is red. A, black, hot; B, White, return; C Green or Bare, grounding wire; D Red, hot when present it is a (DPDT) Double pull Double throw Breaker, just like you 50 amp sub panel is right now and the red wire attaches to the second hot spot.
There is not any difference from low voltage to high voltage as long as you remember the cardinal rule, ALWAYS TURN OFF THE SWITCH FIRST.
It appears you have block and stucco walls, if so this could be a project not a job. You will save a few thousand if you can do it yourself. Just remember to check your work as you go. VV

My question how much power can a 2 bedroom apartment give out, because I want to run maybe 2 1ks a port ac ect....so between 3 and 4k for the entire setup with veg chamber clones, pumps fans ect.

1 Could I run this in a spare bedroom?

2 if I can't, Could i do dome modification so it could support that much wattage?

3. Is there anything I should look for electrical wise when looking for an apartment. Is newer better? is a town home better ect?


I currently run over 2k in a closet in a 1 bedroom and it runs fine for 2 years now.

Now my question are only concerning Electrical capacity............not security, ect.

But if anybody has done a similar setup let me know thanks

Not that you need it but i added to your rep VV. Thanks for the answers.
I thought the panel looked too full already. And it is just a 100 amp panel right? Its that 100 amp switch i should flip before doing any work true? So the top breaker is the 50 amp to the spa sub panel. Should i intercept that wiring right outside my room which is before the sub panel or should I re-route or run new from the out bound of the subpanel so i have an extra fuse in the mix? I wonder if its 240v to the spa? I assume i could run the romex thru a conduit and surface mount to the wall then pop in to the room as opposed to going under ground. What would i wire into once in the room if i wanted 3 15 amp circuits?
thanks again.

DMC65

Not that you need it but i added to your rep VV. Thanks for the answers.
I thought the panel looked too full already. And it is just a 100 amp panel right? Its that 100 amp switch i should flip before doing any work true? So the top breaker is the 50 amp to the spa sub panel.

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Yes it is if you are working in that panel. And yes that 50 amp is the one that goes to the spa.

Should i intercept that wiring right outside my room which is before the sub panel or should I re-route or run new from the out bound of the subpanel so i have an extra fuse in the mix?

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The sub panel is attached to the wall, you can move it into your room if it is convenient.

I

wonder if its 240v to the spa?

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Yes it is, this is the abcd circuit, 2-110 legs, red and black, one return or neutral, white, and one grounding wire, green or bare.

I assume i could run the romex thru a conduit and surface mount to the wall then pop in to the room as opposed to going under ground. What would i wire into once in the room if i wanted 3 15 amp circuits?
thanks again.

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You could, it would not be necessary to use the conduit it you buy the right wiring, a little more expensive, so much easier to work with.
Circuit breakers are available at the big box stores, I would recommend using the 20 amp breakers with 12 wire and 20 amp receptacles. 1000 watt lights pull 9 amps, 80% of capacity, safety rule of thumb, 16 amps. You can still plug a fan or a pump without over loading the circuit. It is unlikely that you would overload the 50 amp sub panel with the three 20 amp breakers.
Anything past that, I would recommend the service upgrade to 200 amp. For mine I didn't have a choice, my existing service was 60 amp.
In my area, you can pull a permit, they supply the meter, you supply the pole to put it on and drive the grounding rods down. The electrical inspector can give you advice on where to put a new 200amp service panel, he doesn't inspect the house, just the location of the new service. VV

ok, i have a switchable 1000w ballast that was a 110v and the previous owner opened it up and switched some wires around and presto....220.
but i only have 110 and need to open it up and switch it back. is there any hope for me or am i gonna have to pay someone to do this? i wired the op and some of the house so i have a decent understanding of electricity but i have never opened up a ballast or anything like that.

Does anyone know anything about 3 phase 380v wiring? I've got a few questions thanks

Hi , I have slight problem that Im sure you can help,kiss-ass Ive got 2- 1000wt cool tubes , 1- 600wt vented hps, 1- 23,000btu AC (window) 1- 20 bucket Ebb-flow, 1- 6" inline fan ,2- 4" fans, 4- 2 bulb florecents, Thats the major stuff plus some air stones,oslating fans Everything mentioned above is 120v ....This unit is approx. 40ft from my elec. panel...I want to run 220v to a sub panel at the room..one Question is How may amps should i feed the sub panel??? AND ANY OTHER ADVICE WOULD BE GREAT, Thanks in advance .....And props to you for all your help here on----->>>>> RIU

468nova said:

Hi , I have slight problem that Im sure you can help,kiss-ass Ive got 2- 1000wt cool tubes , 1- 600wt vented hps, 1- 23,000btu AC (window) 1- 20 bucket Ebb-flow, 1- 6" inline fan ,2- 4" fans, 4- 2 bulb florecents, Thats the major stuff plus some air stones,oslating fans Everything mentioned above is 120v ....This unit is approx. 40ft from my elec. panel...I want to run 220v to a sub panel at the room..one Question is How may amps should i feed the sub panel??? AND ANY OTHER ADVICE WOULD BE GREAT, Thanks in advance .....And props to you for all your help here on----->>>>> RIU

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Figuring the amount of amps you would be fairly easy, the formula is V x A = watts. So watts divided by volts equal amps. As an example each 1000watt light divided by the volts of 110 = about 9 amps. Just figure all of the amps you need.
I doubt that a 23,000 btu Air Conditioner is running on 110, it probably requires a 220 volt circuit.
The problem with giving advice on the size of a sub panel is, if some one says a size that turns out too small, you have to get another one. Starting to plan electric additions should begin with the Main Service. And a lot of times we find 100 amp service now, it was code a few years ago. Most require 150 amp now. The 200amp is not much more than the 150amp if you have to have new service.
I can buy a 100amp main panel with a few breakers included for less than I can buy a 70 amp sub panel and switches. If I were adding the amount of equipment you list here, I would be inclined to install new 200 amp service close to the grow area and run the existing Main Panel as a sub panel. Either way you have to have a line capable of running 100amps of power, if I remember right that is 3-3-5 with ground and is available as cord. VV

Hey man, What can be used that is easy to install that is like a thermal switch in a 250W HPS light . Would the "sensor" or whatever it is be inside the tent or near the ballast? There will also be other lights in the tent (CFL,UVB,LED). Maybe what i am looking for isnt a "thermal switch" at all and it goes by some other name. Could you help me out here i am trying to totaly eliminate fire risk

What i am talking about more specifically is a heat sensor that will shut the light off if it gets to a point that would be abnormal/fire.. sorry and thanks

Ap0c0leS

Hey man, What can be used that is easy to install that is like a thermal switch in a 250W HPS light .

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Like, get a thermal switch if that is what you want. The only ways a 250watt light would start a fire is an electrical problem OR having flammable material come in direct contact with it.

Would the "sensor" or whatever it is be inside the tent or near the ballast?

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Why not get 2 sensors, one for the tent and one for the ballast?

There will also be other lights in the tent (CFL,UVB,LED).

Click to expand...

Maybe you need three sensors?

Maybe what i am looking for isnt a "thermal switch" at all and it goes by some other name.

Click to expand...

Thermal switches are called thermal switches.

Could you help me out here i am trying to totaly eliminate fire risk

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Hey man, the only way to 'totally eliminate fire risk' from a grow op is to not have the grow op. I think you are making a project out of a job, you will spend more on eliminating this risk then you have invested thus far. Is there a reason you are so concerned about this 250 watt light?
Most 'tents' have the necessary venting holes for you to air cool that light. VV

VictorVIcious said:

Ap0c0leS


Like, get a thermal switch if that is what you want. The only ways a 250watt light would start a fire is an electrical problem OR having flammable material come in direct contact with it.



Why not get 2 sensors, one for the tent and one for the ballast?



Maybe you need three sensors?



Thermal switches are called thermal switches.



Hey man, the only way to 'totally eliminate fire risk' from a grow op is to not have the grow op. I think you are making a project out of a job, you will spend more on eliminating this risk then you have invested thus far. Is there a reason you are so concerned about this 250 watt light?
Most 'tents' have the necessary venting holes for you to air cool that light. VV

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Nope, No concern at all about the light. Actually it is a brand new 250W Digital electronics ballast and cord set. I also have an air sealed/cooled glass reflector. I just figured there would be some simple attachment i could get to hook up to my light plug that will turn it off if it gets to a certain temperature. I have no idea about wireing and i wouldnt know where to begin to install a thermal switch.. is there a noob thermal switch where i can just place what i want plugged into it and have those shut off in the event that the temperature reaches 150 degrees or whatever. Also i will have PLENTY of ventilation as i have the tents exaust and the lights exaust competly seperate from eachother so i should be able to get that light RIGHT DOWN THERE BABY.. WOOO.. anyway is there any nooby thermal switches or does noone bother>?


Kinda like the fan control speed things, only a heat senor and circuit breaker instead.. make sence?

I have 4 65w CFLs that I want to put amongst the plants so I figured I would get some cheap desk lamps to put them in. Cheap desk lamps say not to exceed 40w.

How bad of an idea is it to use them? Is the max wattage because of what the wiring in the lamp can handle or because of the heat a 40w incandescent would generate?

Also, the lamps have an outlet on the base so I could theoretically daisy chain them all together. Is this a monumentally worse idea?

e: I left one on for several hours and it showed no signs of bursting into flame

Thank you --->>>> victor

Ap0c0leS said:

Nope, No concern at all about the light. Actually it is a brand new 250W Digital electronics ballast and cord set. I also have an air sealed/cooled glass reflector. I just figured there would be some simple attachment i could get to hook up to my light plug that will turn it off if it gets to a certain temperature. I have no idea about wireing and i wouldnt know where to begin to install a thermal switch.. is there a noob thermal switch where i can just place what i want plugged into it and have those shut off in the event that the temperature reaches 150 degrees or whatever. Also i will have PLENTY of ventilation as i have the tents exaust and the lights exaust competly seperate from eachother so i should be able to get that light RIGHT DOWN THERE BABY.. WOOO.. anyway is there any nooby thermal switches or does noone bother>?


Kinda like the fan control speed things, only a heat senor and circuit breaker instead.. make sence?

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No one bothers. Most won't bother with a 250 watt light. If you can get that light right down on there baby, then you don't have a heat problem. If it were getting to 150 degrees in there you would have dead plants. I am done with this conversation.
Good job on the venting, as long as the light is air cooled, and you have intake and exhaust separate from the light and a nice oscillating fan moving the fresh air around, you will be fine. VV

dogtato said:

I have 4 65w CFLs that I want to put amongst the plants so I figured I would get some cheap desk lamps to put them in. Cheap desk lamps say not to exceed 40w.

How bad of an idea is it to use them? Is the max wattage because of what the wiring in the lamp can handle or because of the heat a 40w incandescent would generate?

Also, the lamps have an outlet on the base so I could theoretically daisy chain them all together. Is this a monumentally worse idea?

e: I left one on for several hours and it showed no signs of bursting into flame

Click to expand...

The maximum watts is based on the heat from the type of bulb it was designed for, one of the first lights I used for seedling was a desk lamp, the one with the four tube floro's.
If the bulbs you have are 65 watt, not 65 watt equivalent, you might consider getting better sockets and using 12 wire with a 20 amp breaker for just those 4 lights. Most actual 65 watt cfl's have a mogul base, so I am guessing you have 65 watt equivalent bulbs, and in that case all of what you are considering should be fine. You might want to protect the cords and plugs from spilled water. I appreciate the support, that is funny. VV

Firstly, I apologize if this has already been addressed and I just missed it.

I have a small area in my basement. In my flowering room, I am using a halogen outdoor light that I got from Lowe's. It cost about 14 dollars, and seems to be doing decent.

I noticed they had outdoor lights with HPS bulbs, for around 55 dollars. My question is, if I bought a heavy duty plug cord, and wired it to the outdoor light, would that work?

It's still wiring it directly into the house either way, and I've done the same with the halogen lamp without any problems.

The box and pamphlets that come with these lights don't give much info on lumens and such, but I figured it takes a 75 watt or 150 watt hps bulb.

I'm a bit novice, and the main factors are price and heat generation. Ballast systems being the $ they are, it's a little out of range for me, as I have a very small area and it's only for personal use. (About 5x

Any advice would be helpful, and thank you in advance.