Experienced Electrician! Here to Answer Any and All Growroom Electrical Questions

one11

one11

Active Member
buggin69 said:
I assume they intended for you to use 12/3 or 10/3 extension cord type cable. You probably got the 12/3 romex simpull or something like that... solid copper cable... it will work i guess but will be pretty rigid and might work loose if you're going to be moving it around a lot

i bet if you didn't strip it back too far they'll take it back or exchange it for you... unless it was a custom cut piece or something...

like i said.. basing this on guesses and assumptions ...
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Yeah its pretty much like Romex. I need it to be weather resistant so i got UF. And its meant to be pretty much permanent. I just dont know what to do with the wires...I much rather exchange the trailer plug for something that fits my wire as it was not nearly as expensive as the wire.
 
buggin69

buggin69

Active Member
one11 said:
Yeah its pretty much like Romex. I need it to be weather resistant so i got UF. And its meant to be pretty much permanent. I just dont know what to do with the wires...I much rather exchange the trailer plug for something that fits my wire as it was not nearly as expensive as the wire.
Click to expand...
you can get a 4 prong dryer plug and outlet to match if you want to go that route... but if you're ok with having an extra wire it's not a big deal... that's for a 4 prong 240 or like a 3 or 4 way light switch setup... it's actually 12/3 w/ground... but otherwise you should be fine to use it (as long as it attaches securely to the plug)
 
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myxedup

Active Member
I actually had a similar question to this. I just purchased a CAP mlc-4xt like this one,

http://www.horticulturesource.com/c-a-p-custom-automated-products-cap-mlc-4xt-master-lighting-controller-4-lights-w-timer-p6031/?osCsid=99a66d25682634c3cd211b0174785039

and I have to feed it from a 30 amp double pole. I purchased 10/3 romex and what I was wondering, was why anything 240 volt runs a neutral wire? It's my understanding that we only use neutral wires because we use alternating current and any imbalance runs through the neutral and to the ground and there should never be any imbalance with a 240 as it pulls from both trees.

Am i incorrect in that or why is there a need for a ground and neutral in 240's?

Thanks in advance
 
buggin69

buggin69

Active Member
myxedup said:
I actually had a similar question to this. I just purchased a CAP mlc-4xt like this one,

http://www.horticulturesource.com/c-a-p-custom-automated-products-cap-mlc-4xt-master-lighting-controller-4-lights-w-timer-p6031/?osCsid=99a66d25682634c3cd211b0174785039

and I have to feed it from a 30 amp double pole. I purchased 10/3 romex and what I was wondering, was why anything 240 volt runs a neutral wire? It's my understanding that we only use neutral wires because we use alternating current and any imbalance runs through the neutral and to the ground and there should never be any imbalance with a 240 as it pulls from both trees.

Am i incorrect in that or why is there a need for a ground and neutral in 240's?

Thanks in advance
Click to expand...

okay... standard 240 has two hots and a neutral... the neutral is used as a safe path to ground in case of a short or fault...

now some newer 240 is actually 240/120 like dryers for instance

the new ones (and old one in mobile homes... they got them first) have both hots for 240 but then it will branch off one and use the hot and neutral as 120 to run the control board
so the motor/heater uses 240, but the rest of the dryer uses 120.

This mean both hots are in use and neutral is in use... therefore to have free a safe path to ground you have to have the extra ground wire

IOW... it's all for safety reasons
 
renyman

renyman

Active Member
Ok, i bought one of those electricity usage meters that tell you how many watts and amps you are using. So i plug my cfl power strip in and it gets the watts right (521) , but the amp reading says 7.5!! How can that be? I'm assuming my house plug is just a regular 120v so shouldnt it be 4.34 amps? The funny thing is my ballast read right which was 420w and 3.2 amps. Just what the label said. 15amps = 1800 no? Im really confused.
 
renyman

renyman

Active Member
IAm5toned said:
does it say on it anywhere, the words 'True RMS" ?
because if it doesnt its not accurate.
Click to expand...

well, it got my ballast right and my space heater. Plus my tv, dvr and microwave. It said that each of those devices pulled exactly what their labels say they pull. The only time the readings started getting wacky i.e not following the 15a = 1800w rule was when i tested my cfls. Actually though i have one brand of bulb that reads on its side: 42w/.53 amps which is what the meter said.

im using a 15a circuit and i guess im going to have to go by the amp reading and not surpass 75%/1125 amps. 2- 42w bulbs read 1.75 amps, but my 400w ballast only read 3.2. Go figure. Chalk another one up for the hids i guess.
 
IAm5toned

IAm5toned

Well-Known Member
not really.
you get billed for wattage, not amperage.
a quick and simple way to compare efficiency between 2 different fixtures, is to divide the lumen output by the lamp wattage.
the higher the number the more efficient.
 
T

theclaws

Active Member
So I'm going to make this as simple as possible. I haven't had time to read all the replies in this thread, so I apologize if my question's been answered already.

Alright, I have a grow box that's 2'Wx4'Lx5.5'H. I would like to take this fixture and wire it to plug into a standard wall outlet. Is it as simple as getting a standard connector to go straight onto the wire or do I have to do something else? I would also like to run a dozen of these through six of these, one in each of the bar's sockets. Will this be fine wattage-wise, or would that many bulbs draw too much power through the fixture?
 
ghettochild

ghettochild

Member
anyone got any info on wiring up a master light controller (washer outlet plug ) for a 3000 watt light set up 120volt...

just like those 300 dollar timers at the hydro store... I'd like a tutorial on how to make one myself.

thanks yall
 
J

Judgeroy

Member
theclaws said:
So I'm going to make this as simple as possible. I haven't had time to read all the replies in this thread, so I apologize if my question's been answered already.

Alright, I have a grow box that's 2'Wx4'Lx5.5'H. I would like to take this fixture and wire it to plug into a standard wall outlet. Is it as simple as getting a standard connector to go straight onto the wire or do I have to do something else? I would also like to run a dozen of these through six of these, one in each of the bar's sockets. Will this be fine wattage-wise, or would that many bulbs draw too much power through the fixture?
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It's a simple math problem!! Add up all your watts, divide by your voltage and that gives you your amps. Most all wall plugs are rated at 15A but a lot are wired with 12ga and can carry 20A, Thus, check your breaker! if it's a 15 it should have 14ga wire if 20 it should be 12ga wire. All 20A breakers in your main box should have 12ga wire to pass code. If you are not overloaded just add a plug to the wires off the fixture.
 
J

Judgeroy

Member
myxedup said:
I actually had a similar question to this. I just purchased a CAP mlc-4xt like this one,

http://www.horticulturesource.com/c-a-p-custom-automated-products-cap-mlc-4xt-master-lighting-controller-4-lights-w-timer-p6031/?osCsid=99a66d25682634c3cd211b0174785039

and I have to feed it from a 30 amp double pole. I purchased 10/3 romex and what I was wondering, was why anything 240 volt runs a neutral wire? It's my understanding that we only use neutral wires because we use alternating current and any imbalance runs through the neutral and to the ground and there should never be any imbalance with a 240 as it pulls from both trees.

Am i incorrect in that or why is there a need for a ground and neutral in 240's?

Thanks in advance
Click to expand...
First I guess is that everybody has a different idea when it comes to an electrical setup for their OP. If that's the only thing you need juice for and you want to run the lights on 220v then you run two power and a ground back to your main box and you are set. The best and easier way in my opinion is to build a sub-panel (breaker box) from your main panel. This is where it gets a different look as far as neutral and ground goes. In that sub=panel the neutral and ground have to be seperated!!!! The beauty is you have plenty of power to distribute where you want and can size the panel for the circuts needed. Kind of hard to explain in writing but you need to start at the op and work it back to the power requirements. Example 3-1000w= 3plugs@ 10a each. Fans and auxillary plugs. pumps, and what have you. It can be a real pain. Myself, I'm running an aero type op and I figured 50A total, that's from cloner,veg and flower. Since I didn't have a 50A range outlet(4-wire), I installed a 50A plug from my main breaker box near my op. Then I used a main lug breaker box and put a 50A range plug feeding 220v to the lugs, wht to neutral,(which cannot be bonded to ground) and in my case I had to install a ground bar to the box. Like I said the ground and neutral have to be seperated in order to use any 110voltage. If you are using only 220v a three wire setup would work but I see no point, fans and pumps do not run on 220v. Wow, this is getting out of hand. Anyway, That's a lot of money just for a light timer with outlets. Check out these pics of my setup. It works Great and power a plenty.
So in the first pic is my main sub-panel from my house main breaker box. Being fed thru a 50A range plug(4wire) to the main lugs,red and black, White to neutral(which has to be seperated from ground, unbonded) and ground to panel.
The three single gang outlets have constant power thru one breaker, which I power my timers. When the timer says go. power is applied to a contactor, or relay solinoid rated at the amp draw thru the cord plugged into the timer. The contactor on the left when triggered relays power from the breakers to the plugs. no need for high amp timer. each duplex has 20A available. that's 4-1000w if needed for lights.
The contactor on the right is run by timer cord on the right, this allows seperate timing for pumps other then with the light schedule, the contactor then relays power from another breaker down to the pump outlets. This config reduces current draw on pump timer and increases amps available for pumps,
You will see a big 30A outlet on the side of panel, that feeds pic #2 panel which works basically the same except there is no contactor,high amp switch, for the lights as this is clone and veg which doesn't need high draw lights, but protects pump timers from high amps.
I think I have everything covered power wise and have not added all the parts up but thinking @ 250 for everything in pics.

I think someone starting out should think their setup through. Maybe you have a 30A dryer plug available! you may have to run another wire if you want some 110voltage.
I'm sure I confused some people and enlightened others. I'm not a licensed electrician but know many and always do my own.. Make sure you don't work with live power!!!! Shut the breaker off
 

Attachments

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myxedup

Active Member
Judgeroy said:
First I guess is that everybody has a different idea when it comes to an electrical setup for their OP. If that's the only thing you need juice for and you want to run the lights on 220v then you run two power and a ground back to your main box and you are set. The best and easier way in my opinion is to build a sub-panel (breaker box) from your main panel. This is where it gets a different look as far as neutral and ground goes. In that sub=panel the neutral and ground have to be seperated!!!! The beauty is you have plenty of power to distribute where you want and can size the panel for the circuts needed. Kind of hard to explain in writing but you need to start at the op and work it back to the power requirements. Example 3-1000w= 3plugs@ 10a each. Fans and auxillary plugs. pumps, and what have you. It can be a real pain. Myself, I'm running an aero type op and I figured 50A total, that's from cloner,veg and flower. Since I didn't have a 50A range outlet(4-wire), I installed a 50A plug from my main breaker box near my op. Then I used a main lug breaker box and put a 50A range plug feeding 220v to the lugs, wht to neutral,(which cannot be bonded to ground) and in my case I had to install a ground bar to the box. Like I said the ground and neutral have to be seperated in order to use any 110voltage. If you are using only 220v a three wire setup would work but I see no point, fans and pumps do not run on 220v. Wow, this is getting out of hand. Anyway, That's a lot of money just for a light timer with outlets. Check out these pics of my setup. It works Great and power a plenty.
So in the first pic is my main sub-panel from my house main breaker box. Being fed thru a 50A range plug(4wire) to the main lugs,red and black, White to neutral(which has to be seperated from ground, unbonded) and ground to panel.
The three single gang outlets have constant power thru one breaker, which I power my timers. When the timer says go. power is applied to a contactor, or relay solinoid rated at the amp draw thru the cord plugged into the timer. The contactor on the left when triggered relays power from the breakers to the plugs. no need for high amp timer. each duplex has 20A available. that's 4-1000w if needed for lights.
The contactor on the right is run by timer cord on the right, this allows seperate timing for pumps other then with the light schedule, the contactor then relays power from another breaker down to the pump outlets. This config reduces current draw on pump timer and increases amps available for pumps,
You will see a big 30A outlet on the side of panel, that feeds pic #2 panel which works basically the same except there is no contactor,high amp switch, for the lights as this is clone and veg which doesn't need high draw lights, but protects pump timers from high amps.
I think I have everything covered power wise and have not added all the parts up but thinking @ 250 for everything in pics.

I think someone starting out should think their setup through. Maybe you have a 30A dryer plug available! you may have to run another wire if you want some 110voltage.
I'm sure I confused some people and enlightened others. I'm not a licensed electrician but know many and always do my own.. Make sure you don't work with live power!!!! Shut the breaker off
Click to expand...
Actually, I did go ahead and install a sub-panel for my OP. My main panel was on tandems everywhere and had absolutely no room for expansion, so I made my subpanel a 60 amp panel that I can switch out to up to 100 amp in the future should there be a need.

I used 2/2/2/4 wiring specifically for that reason. I have 2 20 amp quadplexes running at 120 in the room and another 2 20 amp dualplexes. I got the MLC as I got a killer deal on it and I don't have to bother with purchasing other timers and such.

I'm actually finishing the build part of this room on Thursday (minus anything still in shipping), and I've been taking a lot of pictures. I just can't post them yet as I'm overbudget on my room and need a new card reader or some usb connection.

Absolutely loved the explanation on the sub panel, and no, i didn't bond my neutral bar :)

Thanks again and + rep
 
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MonstroniuM

Active Member
Check it out, got a 5x5x8 closet with no electrical outlet in the closet itself. Closest one is two feet from the door so I ran an extension cord under the door running my sorry cfl's. Now that its constructed and time to throw up the 400w, exhaust fan, and the other goods, I don't know if its recommended to run it off an extension cord from a room that already has other things plugged in. So with that said I ask your advice on how to equip my new space with out it being rigged on some cords under a door, etc.

Thanks in advance, and I'll wait patiently for your input!

-Monstro
 
ghettochild

ghettochild

Member
someone please help. I need to build a 50 amp box for my set up i would like it to be on 220v with the option to plug in 120 appliances and 220v appliances. this run will be roughly under 4k so please help!!!
 
debbie1950

debbie1950

Well-Known Member
I had a surge protector on my 250MH and it quit after 2 weeks of 18hours on 6 off. I then put up the 600hps to continue and the bulb blew after 2 days. The ballasts still work, but the light bulbs only flicker a little blue spark. I don't have a hot room. I don't have other stuff plugged into the outlet -I'm concerned that it's maybe not just bad bulbs. I'm totally upset right now.
 
W

whiteboin00b

Member
I have a question. I am about to start a rubbermaid grow box, with exhaust fans cfls etc etc. I am not sure on how to wire these. I am going to use ab 5-6 42w cfls through both stages. How would I go about wiring these lights to one fixture so I could hang it from a chain in my box and lower/raise it as needed? also how would I go about wiring a CPU 120mm fan in the case...I saw on another post i would have to splice an old 12v charger and wire them together. I haven't done this before and am not too sure on how its done, could you please explain in further detial? Thanks man, this is a huge help to the community!
 
M

myxedup

Active Member
ghettochild said:
someone please help. I need to build a 50 amp box for my set up i would like it to be on 220v with the option to plug in 120 appliances and 220v appliances. this run will be roughly under 4k so please help!!!
Click to expand...
Your probably going to need to build a sub panel, it all just depends upon how much room you have left in your main electrical panel and how far from the main panel your grow area will be.

I just finished building my own subpanel and it's actually pretty simple.

Here's what you'll need:

50 amp double pole breaker for your main panel.
A new panel box to be used as the sub panel.
6/3 romex wire is rated to carry the 50 amps so you'll need it long enough to reach the subpanel. Do NOT buy it too short, I'm not all too familiar with the codes but I believe you shouldn't splice 6# wire.
Possibly a grounding bar, again depends on where you need your op in relation to your main service.
You'll also need to figure out how many circuits you need from the sub panel and what amperage for them and purchase the appropriate breakers.


Now to the build, you want to work backwards from your subpanel to the main panel.
Run the 6/3 romex wire from the main panel to the sub panel.
You'll start by attaching the ground to the ground bar in the new panel and then the neutral to the neutral bar.
With the wires, Red & Black are hot wires, White is neutral and Green or bare is ground.
You can then attach the Red and Black wires to their busses on the sub panel.
When connecting everything to the main panel, you need to be aware of what is hot and don't electrocute your @$$. If you are unsure, call an electrician.
When connecting to the main panel, always do ground wire first, then the neutral.
For the two hot wires, you will attach those to the 50 amp double pole and pop it into the box, doublechecking that it is in the off position when doing so.

Double check all connections and also make sure that you did NOT attach the bonding screw that comes in most panels to the neutral bus. Sub panels do not get bonded in that way.

From there, all you have to do is flip the 50 amp double pole to on to energize your box.

Again, when you make the rest of your circuits, turn off the breaker that feeds your subpanel so that you don't risk shock.

If any of the certified electritions would please just double check this guide, I believe that everything is correct though.

Good luck and be safe.
 
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Mustafa

Member
Hey I was wondering if anyone can help me. I am seeking advice on how to bypass a European electric meter. All i can tell you is that two wires come out of the ground each running into the meter, into the rotating reel. These two wires however seem to lead into the trip switch box inside the building. I am looking to bypass the meter at this location. any help on how to go about doing this ?
 
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