Experienced Electrician! Here to Answer Any and All Growroom Electrical Questions

HI! I just saw the firs picture of your electric setup and it's great! I noticed that you have lumatech electronic ballast and I read on their web page that you mustn't mount them closer then 6 inch together and not to blow air in them. Just Reminding. Maybe I'm wrong but nothing hurts if I tell you.

My question ist: If I cutt my ballast output cable (to bulb) in half or more will I get more lumens?

SRY for my english

PEACE!

hi! Me again I got my answer from lumatech and they said having a shorter wire will have no effect on Lumen output. So you don't have to bother with me!
Regards

sherriberry said:

k, instead of 50ft,

100ft, 12 guage, 20 amps. 110acv. Safe?

Thanks

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Well when you get over 100ft you will have to upgrade to 10g wire to account for a voltage drop. (Bigballs should know exact code on that one.) I just know that on a run thats over a hundred feet you need to upgrade the wire , one notch bigger.

actually its 300 hundred feet.
it depends more on how many wires you have running together than the actual distance...
but for one circuit, #12 will get you 20 amps in any distance under 300'
1000' for free air cable (dont try this. free air is on telephone poles)

no if your wanting 20 amps for growing purposes... you will need #10.
the rules change quite a bit when your equipment is energized for periods longer than 6 hours (what we call a continuous duty cycle)

IAm5toned, got a couple Qs if ya don't mind.

On a 200amp service panel, is that 100 amp per phase or combined?
On a 20A 2 pole breaker, 20A per pole or 10A per pole?

On a 200A service panel, can you put in more then 200amps worth of breakers? (per code)

^^ Fail.
you derate your wire for branch circuit conductors @ 300' in normal ambient temps. (and that is actually shorter than the code requires)
temps have alot to do with voltage drop... more than you would think.
#12 will get you 20amps all day @ any distance within less than 350'

a thing to consider is that 20 amps of continuous duty will not run on #12....
continuous duty is any electrical load that is energized for a period greater than 6 hours.
since we flower @ 12/12, this is something to be seriously considered.
to find your demand factor for a continuous duty cycle:
multiply your max power factor (the sum of ALL connected equipments' max wattage/amperage to the circuit) bt 120% to find your demand factor (amount of power that can be used)
example:
johnny wants to run 2 1000w hps in his flower cab in the garage.
he has 120v available.
he uses one oscillating fan, one timer.
2 x 1000w lamps
2 x 60w ballast draw (the ballasts concume a small amount of power, its expressed as heat)
1 x 45w fan
1 x 15w timer
____________
2180 watts @ 120v
(P= I x E, where P = watts, I = amperage, E= voltage)
2180 watts @ 120v = 18.16666 amps (this number, the sum of all your connected devices is also known as max power factor)
18.16666 amps x 120% = 21.79999 amps

so for johnny to run his 2 1000w hps, he requires 21.79999 amps, which is greater than 20. his wire size should be #10 awg.............
you following me?
do you see how that by running equipment for longer than 6 hours at a time changes your electrical requirements?
pay attention, because this is one of the more common causes of grow related fires...
people add up all there wattage/amperage and then pick the closest size wire someone on an internet forumn tells them they need.
YOU need to learn the math for yourself... that way the only person to blame is you!

BigBudBalls said:

IAm5toned, got a couple Qs if ya don't mind.

On a 200amp service panel, is that 100 amp per phase or combined?
On a 20A 2 pole breaker, 20A per pole or 10A per pole?

On a 200A service panel, can you put in more then 200amps worth of breakers? (per code)

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sorry about my first post, it came off wierd, and when i edited it it somehow dbl posted....

challenge me? lol ok

200 amp panel is the maximum load rating for the panels busbars. it doesnt have shit to do with the number of phases

you can put 20,000 amps worth od breakers in a 200amp panel (if you could fit them) s long as they were rated for intermittant use.


on any breaker, the load is determined by the connected equipment, not by the number of poles.... a 240v dryer pulls x amount of amps @ 240v, you know well that phases have shit to do with breaker rating. number of phases determine voltage, not amperage. 2 phases of 110 get you 220, 3 phases get you 208. if its an open delta then you have 208 between phase c and neutral....


now i have a question for you.

in a building with a 1500amp, 3 phase 277/460 open delta service, what color is wild leg?

IAm5toned said:

now i have a question for you.

in a building with a 1500amp, 3 phase 277/460 open delta service, what color is wild leg?

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Wasn't a challenge, just an honest inquiry. So on a 200amp panel I can pull 200amp from one phase and not worry? (I was going for an imbalanced situation)


No clue. Will NOT use anything by Wye. The machines I work on do NOT like a wild leg (they step up 480 to about 25K, then rectified for neg DC)

Had a fun time at a new customer who had installed 480 just for the machine. But unfortunately he got a grounded leg Delta (never saw one of those before, talk about old.) He paid through the nose to get that fixed. Luckily I noticed before anything happened (other then checking rotation, I blew 2 surge of the 3 suppressors, since they were rated for 280V) That trip cut cut rather short.

lol... i just ran across an old grounded leg milling machine/drill press the other day myself. wild stuff. name plate ratings on the motor called for 3p 480, however the center taps had been changed to 240v. the boss sees the nameplate rating stamped 480... and he plugs it into a nema plug we have for a forklift charger.....lol

lets just say i have 3 motors, a control transformer, and a shitload of wiring to replace....


(ps- the wild leg is ALWAYS orange... even the bus bars are anodized )

Ok , i defiantly stand corrected, i dont know where i got the hundred foot thing. but since it is easier to explain things in a "pothead" fashion, i would say if you think you need 20 amps a hundred foot away then it would be better to use 10 wire. and if someone asked a more detailed question then they would get a more detailed answer as you just displayed.

BigBudBalls said:

So on a 200amp panel I can pull 200amp from one phase and not worry? (I was going for an imbalanced situation)
.

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if your service feeders were properly sized, on paper, it would work.
the busbars themselves are rated for whatever amperage the panelboard itself is rated for. a 200 amp single phase panel will have (2) 200 amp busbars, not (2) 100 amp busbars.

however in reality most engineers rate there services @ a balanced load, which, when dealing with a/c, allows you to reduce the ampacity of the secondary conductors on the service. so it really depends on WHO designed the system, if you wanted to pull 200 amps of a single phase.

i wouldnt try this in anywhere but an industrial enviroment... wouldnt even think about it in resi

I got a fan question, I just got a new 6" vortex style fan for ventilation. I want to control it with 2 factors, time and temps. Would it be possible to use some sort of 120V relay to switch the fan and trigger it with BOTH a 120V standard wall timer as a trigger and a 12V cooling thermostat? Or if not that could I get a 120v relay and use a line voltage t-stat and wall timer and still have either/or trigger the relay?

IAm5toned said:

if your service feeders were properly sized, on paper, it would work.
the busbars themselves are rated for whatever amperage the panelboard itself is rated for. a 200 amp single phase panel will have (2) 200 amp busbars, not (2) 100 amp busbars.

however in reality most engineers rate there services @ a balanced load, which, when dealing with a/c, allows you to reduce the ampacity of the secondary conductors on the service. so it really depends on WHO designed the system, if you wanted to pull 200 amps of a single phase.

i wouldnt try this in anywhere but an industrial enviroment... wouldnt even think about it in resi

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Now that answers it all. Thanks. Was more just an extreme example.

I got a good one for ya, I recently bought a 600 watt digital ballast that is supposed to be able to automatically switch between high pressure sodium bulbs and metal halide bulbs. Unfortunately they don't seem to make 600 watt metal halide bulbs that aren't extremely expensive compared to 600 watt high pressure sodium.

Is is possible to create my own step-down or converter so I can run a 400 watt inexpensive metal halide bulb in my 600 watt ballast, and change to a 600 watt high pressure sodium when needed?

Thanks!

inquire with the MFG. You *might* be able to pop it in. Digitals have more control.

xum said:

I got a good one for ya, I recently bought a 600 watt digital ballast that is supposed to be able to automatically switch between high pressure sodium bulbs and metal halide bulbs. Unfortunately they don't seem to make 600 watt metal halide bulbs that aren't extremely expensive compared to 600 watt high pressure sodium.

Is is possible to create my own step-down or converter so I can run a 400 watt inexpensive metal halide bulb in my 600 watt ballast, and change to a 600 watt high pressure sodium when needed?

Thanks!

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5toned or bigballs (bubbz) , I am just a mere resi guy, i know nothing about motors, ballast or even high voltage. I can make a home safe and almost tell you why/how, but thats about it.
Thank you guys very much for helping out , i am sure at least one fire was prevented with this thread.

ok, do you guys think a magnetic ballast will outlast a digital or vice verca ? Also do you think the benefits of a digital ballast would make it worth getting? I have had magnetics for many years now without ever replacing one. Is there any reason to replace a 10 year old ballast? The amps and volts are still the same as the new one next to it?
Thanks,




wb

Anyone take a stab at my question?

Having Electrical issues

Running 6 1000 watts with the new Lumatek ballasts on 220 V through a timer with 6 guage wire going to a 50 amp breaker. Every day the 50 amp breaker pops at start up. Once I reset it, I never have a problem the rest of the cycle. My concern is that it pops on start up every time...like some type of surge. When i test the amperage after resetting the breaker it measures 27 amps. What is happening?

The amps spike at startup, either up the amperage on the breaker / circuit or you could offset 1/2 of the lights, have them come on a minute later than the other half so they dont all have the spike at once.

serialkiller said:

The amps spike at startup, either up the amperage on the breaker / circuit or you could offset 1/2 of the lights, have them come on a minute later than the other half so they dont all have the spike at once.

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I was considering that...any idea how much more amperage I would need....60 or 70 amp breaker ? Do you know of any safety issues in doing that ?