Ethics & Seeds

Which one feels most right to you?

  • Always buy from the original breeder (or the one who claims to be)

    Votes: 28 38.4%

  • Buy from a less expensive breeder who used original genetics

    Votes: 13 17.8%

  • Buy from whomever has the deals going

    Votes: 7 9.6%

  • Doesn't matter to me I just grow weed

    Votes: 25 34.2%
  • Total voters
    73
King Arthur

King Arthur

Well-Known Member
Jd Short said:
....and no, I won't. But thank you for your attempt at speaking for me, even though it was a horrible attempt.

And didn't you already cop to being the same person as King Arthur anyway?
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Please don't post negative things in my thread, I am not althor and he is not me. If you look in other threads you will see me clearly calling him out like I called you out. I am a perveyor of truth, I don't spew bullshit and I don't tell people that they are buying fake seeds. I want you to have the best of luck and grow great weed. Lets start this over, but you have to realize me and alter boy are two entirely different people. We just have strong opinions.
 
King Arthur

King Arthur

Well-Known Member
torontoke said:
Both orders were made from the same shop in toronto. He used a distributor from europe.
I dont remeber the name or address in europe but i do know that both sets of packs were identical. One order from 96-97 and one from around 2003-4.
I dont have questions just pointing out my previous experience with what are supposedly locked in genetics. Because i know this former shop owner ive had the chance to meet a few breeders personally and i would say that just like other humans u meet some good and some not so much.
If i were to meet your dad id shake his hand for those early genetics but id follow the handshake up with wtf happened.
Just my two cents.
Im not here looking for an argument or a refund man.
This game is what it is
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JD keeps making false claims on these forums.

I want to make it entirely clear that I am not affiliated with althor at all, we are two different people with two entirely different perspectives. Read the posts and you will know right off the bat that we aren't the same person.

Even a mod can come online and tell you guys that our ip is entirely different I don't even know where althor lives but JD is again spewing claims that are unfounded. I just want us all to be at peace and grow some freakin weed.

I can't believe this shit man.
 
bluntmassa1

bluntmassa1

Well-Known Member
Jd Short said:
I'll answer without even looking to see if he did. The reason the strain from breeder B. is 25% less is because it's a 99.99999999999999999999999996% chance that it's a it's knock-off...it's not original at all. And the reason the original cost so much is because it was middle manned 7 times just to get to you and at each time it was middle manned, a fee was added to it. The high demand for authentic stock and the inability to meet that demand has created a vacuum for knock-off f2's. Turn the page a few times and here we are seeing f2 knock off's of f2 knock off's. Wheeee!

The discussion isn't a farce. It's a great discussion. Unfortunately we're only discussing snip-its of the whole picture.

I don't sell packs of authentic Dj Short BB for over 65$, and that's in packs of 13. Let that sink in for a minute.....most pollen chucking knock-offs actually cost as much if not MORE than the authentic ones....go figure.

Basically...if you want authentic verifiable dank beans that were made ethically.....buy directly from the breeder....or better yet......MAKE THEM YOURSELF. ;)
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Wouldn't they be F6 knock-offs? I remember at some cup he talked about breeding with Subcool and like 2 other breeders and DJ mentioned all his strains where F5 something I never knew. So what are they F1 or 5?
 
J

Jd Short

Well-Known Member
torontoke said:
Both orders were made from the same shop in toronto. He used a distributor from europe.
I dont remeber the name or address in europe but i do know that both sets of packs were identical. One order from 96-97 and one from around 2003-4.
I dont have questions just pointing out my previous experience with what are supposedly locked in genetics. Because i know this former shop owner ive had the chance to meet a few breeders personally and i would say that just like other humans u meet some good and some not so much.
If i were to meet your dad id shake his hand for those early genetics but id follow the handshake up with wtf happened.
Just my two cents.
Im not here looking for an argument or a refund man.
This game is what it is
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Sounds like you got an order from dutch passion or sagarmatha seeds or both orders from one or the other. But nonetheless, by 2002 dj had parted ways with the duchies. So, your second order had nothing to do with Dj, it was the selection process of the dutchies that lost the pre-98 parents Dj helped select. Dj hasn't worked with anyone in europe for over a decade and a half.

Sounds like your complaint may in fact be with Dutch Passion or Sagramatha.
 
J

Jd Short

Well-Known Member
bluntmassa1 said:
Wouldn't they be F6 knock-offs? I remember at some cup he talked about breeding with Subcool and like 2 other breeders and DJ mentioned all his strains where F5 something I never knew. So what are they F1 or 5?
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Because most often people take an f5 and outcross it to an unknown f2. People who make f6's aren't really making anything new. It's just one filial generation further out than the f5. And the f5 being as stabilized as it is, the variances in the f6 wouldn't be enough to call it something new. People do make f6's, but more often make f2's.
 
J

Jd Short

Well-Known Member
My girlfriend just got here. I gotta go for now. But I promise I will return later and reply to any and all enquiries made directly to me....peace-out.
Have good nights.
 
J

Jd Short

Well-Known Member
King Arthur said:
Please don't post negative things in my thread, I am not althor and he is not me. If you look in other threads you will see me clearly calling him out like I called you out. I am a perveyor of truth, I don't spew bullshit and I don't tell people that they are buying fake seeds. I want you to have the best of luck and grow great weed. Lets start this over, but you have to realize me and alter boy are two entirely different people. We just have strong opinions.
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Why is it ok for you or others to post 'negative' stuff in your threads directed at people you don't like....? You're clearly not being diplomatic at all and fanning the flames of exclusion that you've been reaping. Also, I've seen you're account say some of the most vile and negative shit of anyone here....so......hypocritical much?....then again, I'm a firm believer that people change and always leave tolerance for that possibility.
Peace.
 
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torontoke

torontoke

Well-Known Member
Jd Short said:
Sounds like you got an order from dutch passion or sagarmatha seeds or both orders from one or the other. But nonetheless, by 2002 dj had parted ways with the duchies. So, your second order had nothing to do with Dj, it was the selection process of the dutchies that lost the pre-98 parents Dj helped select. Dj hasn't worked with anyone in europe for over a decade and a half.

Sounds like your complaint may in fact be with Dutch Passion or Sagramatha.
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I think it might have been dutch passion tbh.
And tbvh it doesnt matter.
Lesson learned and like i said i dont wish ill will on anyone.
This is a thread about ethics and they go both ways.
One could argue that dj should have made sure things werent being sold in his packaging then if they werent "real".
Either way its the past
 
J

Jd Short

Well-Known Member
torontoke said:
I think it might have been dutch passion tbh.
And tbvh it doesnt matter.
Lesson learned and like i said i dont wish ill will on anyone.
This is a thread about ethics and they go both ways.
One could argue that dj should have made sure things werent being sold in his packaging then if they werent "real".
Either way its the past
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What were his options for legal recourse? All sorts of efforts were made to settle things with the duchies, they weren't interested. They were only interested in ripping off Dj's genetics. There's literally nothing he could have done other than threaten to break legs and break legs, and we're not into that shit.
Alright....lady friend is here and giving me that look...got's ta get off this thing.
 
bluntmassa1

bluntmassa1

Well-Known Member
Jd Short said:
Because most often people take an f5 and outcross it to an unknown f2. People who make f6's aren't really making anything new. It's just one filial generation further out than the f5. And the f5 being as stabilized as it is, the variances in the f6 wouldn't be enough to call it something new. People do make f6's, but more often make f2's.
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So you coming to MA or Maine 2017 when weed is legal? I'd love to get a hold of cheap DJ beans. :bigjoint:
 
hydroMD

hydroMD

Well-Known Member
Jd Short said:
…yes, Dj knows.

Please refer me to my 'bitching and moaning.' Perhaps we have different definitions of 'bitching and moaning.' Actually, it's kind of a derogatory term I wouldn't use, so honestly my perception of what you mean is probably way off. But if you're referring to my attitude, again, I searched my name and found a thread that was clearly created in retaliation to an altercation I had with Arthur who then blocked me and went on to start a thread attacking me. And then there's people like you who add to the whole cluster fuck of emotions by calling me a bitch and telling me, if you were my father, you'd slap me around. (Clearly a troll comment, or one of an abusive father,….but I digress).

Yes, people 'take' ideas and build on them. Sometimes people 'steal' ideas and build on them. And any industry where this becomes the condoned norm is a lawyers wet fucking dream. And remember…we're talking about ethics here. If one feels the need to involve lawyers to ensure they're fairly compensated…something went horribly wrong in the department of ethics somewhere along the way. And I'd say it all started going wrong somewhere around the point where some greedy asshole saw an idea someone else had and said, I could just steal that idea, do minimal to no work and make money off of it.

I'm not bitching or looking for empathy, I'm having an open discussion on ethics that I was basically tagged to and then attacked.

I'm doing the same breeding work as my father, with his genetics. I can't publicly offer anything new that isn't an f2 outcross because of all this unethical bullshit that's going on without also entertaining the notion of patenting or leasing my genetics, otherwise I end up doing all this shit as a hobby while swaths of other people make shit loads of money off my work, while I lose money doing this as a hobby. I work two jobs just to be able to afford doing this breeding work, and sometime three, just to survive. So yeah…it's a little lame and upsets me, I would not however use the term 'butthurt'. Again, it's clearly derogatory and troll like, just saying.

And yes, I am Dj Short's son, and I am working with Dj.
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I get it, believe that.

Its not always about ethics in big business. Its tact as well. One thing I always respected about your father was he never used his skill or name as a soap box.


He would answere questions honestly, while refraining from mentioning names or throwing someone under the bus.

He would offer his assistance and skill to the public without much thought for profit or self gains.


Atleast thats the image i got.

Then you come in and what I get from you is that dutch passion cashed in on his work before you could and your pissed.

Learn from his mistakes. You have one of the best pools of knowledge accessible to you for breeding. Stop arguing with ppl on a forum and soak up every little piece of knowledge the man posesses
 
J

Jd Short

Well-Known Member
hydroMD said:
I get it, believe that.

Its not always about ethics in big business. Its tact as well. One thing I always respected about your father was he never used his skill or name as a soap box.


He would answere questions honestly, while refraining from mentioning names or throwing someone under the bus.

He would offer his assistance and skill to the public without much thought for profit or self gains.


Atleast thats the image i got.

Then you come in and what I get from you is that dutch passion cashed in on his work before you could and your pissed.

Learn from his mistakes. You have one of the best pools of knowledge accessible to you for breeding. Stop arguing with ppl on a forum and soak up every little piece of knowledge the man posesses
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I am not my father. And things have changed, times have changed. Im doing the best I can with what I have within the framework I have. And perhaps it's time to start mentioning names and setting some records straight. Perhaps the the lack of calling people out is what's created a large part of this ethical mess we're in?

Especially if the up and coming generations are the one's left to clean up this mess, we'd all be best suited if we could openly learn from the errors of the past instead of pretending they didn't happen or not talking about them or continuing to allow the misinformation and lies to be spread because we don't want to throw someone under the bus.

I have nothing to gain from correcting the errors of the past. What happened happened, I'm not pissed about this company or that cashing in anyone else's work, it ain't my fucking work. What I'm pissed about is that companies like dutch passion have set a standard of ethics that is now basically condoned in this industry and the sentiment on this forum clearly validates that. I'm bummed because this standard of ethics has messed up this whole breeding thing for many of us. And some of us actually love doing this and would like to make it our livelihoods. Some of us may be good at it and may be able to produce some herb that we'd all enjoy. But this standard of ethics makes it really hard without entertaining the notion of lawyers and patents….and that's fucking lame.

But something we all have to gain from setting the record straight and learning from the errors of the past is an the opportunity to not repeat them.

And thank you for your comment and critique. Very well stated and I will think on your advice.
 
A

althor

Well-Known Member
Jd Short said:
....and no, I won't. But thank you for your attempt at speaking for me, even though it was a horrible attempt.

And didn't you already cop to being the same person as King Arthur anyway?
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Uh no, copping to being another person = banned.
I am one person and one person only, have been my entire life. In fact King Arthur has the honor of sharing my ignore list with Uncle Buck. Only been 3 people ever on my ignore, King Arthur, Uncle Buck, and Hazeygrapes.

I can quote your numerous attempts of "fake seeds". So not like I was reaching for it...
You hurt your father's name a hell of a lot more than his mutating plants and hermies and unbelievable pheno range.
 
A

althor

Well-Known Member
hydroMD said:
I get it, believe that.

Its not always about ethics in big business. Its tact as well. One thing I always respected about your father was he never used his skill or name as a soap box.


He would answere questions honestly, while refraining from mentioning names or throwing someone under the bus.

He would offer his assistance and skill to the public without much thought for profit or self gains.


Atleast thats the image i got.

Then you come in and what I get from you is that dutch passion cashed in on his work before you could and your pissed.

Learn from his mistakes. You have one of the best pools of knowledge accessible to you for breeding. Stop arguing with ppl on a forum and soak up every little piece of knowledge the man posesses
Click to expand...
Yep. All his lawsuit talk and apparent greed is causing all of his problems but he cant see it.
 
B

BadInfluence

Well-Known Member
Jd Short said:
I searched my name on this forum and found comments attacking my person. An attack puts a person on the defensive or retreat. I refuse to retreat form this bullshit. So unfortunately by forces outside of my control, I am on the defense.
And I'm confused, do you come to forums like this to find trusted advice, or are you unable to tell from just the internet alone if someone is sincere in their endeavors or not? It's hard for me to understand why you trust what's being echoed in forums like this when you've clearly stated in the same comment that what people say on the internet is clearly not enough to tell if they are sincere in there efforts. I make myself publicly available in oregon to anyone willing to meet with me. As long as they're not clearly anymore of an internet whack-job than I am.

I'm also genuinely confused at why anyone who is already growing does not also have the resources to make their own beans. What am I missing here? I'm seriously asking..
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It is harder to trust a company which clearly wants to make a profit. As long as i haven't heard enough positive things or met the company in person i will not spend a lot of money. But after reading in the forums for a while you find people who always give good advice and have a good reputation. Following their advice gives me better results on average than following adverts or people like you. When i was new i bought Barney's farm because they were advertised everywhere and placed well on seed bank websites.

How you can miss the fact that small growers are using fems or destroy their males because of the lack of space is not a good sign either. Not everybody here has the luxury of living in California or Colorado or wherever the gold rush is at the moment so perhaps you're not seeing the whole picture.
 
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