Epistar/BridgeLux/noname: A red LED Under The Microscope - Real and Electronically

foreverflyhi said:

Holy fuck rasser! Rep+ all day! Ur def going to help make RIU led amazing with all those test ur doing, like u mention in your first post, is there some how we can combine our threads? Along with other peoples DIY led?
Seems like what ur doing is pretty much what I'm really trying to understand, I really want this RIU light up and running ASAP! Truth be told I want it ready by the time my orange bud grow is finished! So less then 3 months.
Anyways
Those test your doing are crazy mind botteling!
And whoever said marijuana makes people undetermined? Haha

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Thanks !
Don't know about combining threads since this one already got 3 topics in my view,
'LED under the microscope+ID' - 'Current vs. voltage relationship' - 'Spectrometer & spectrograph'

But I could see some new sticky threads in a category form as in the direction of:
"LED chips - Brand name vs no-name"
"The Right Spectrum and intensity for the job"
"Lenses and optics"
"Drivers and electronics"
"Cooling and heat management"
"Modding your LED Grow Light"
"LED multi grow blog"

See you.

Gastanker said:

No need to use a reference as that's just a feature to compare any two spectrum - simply overlays the two when calculating intensity.
Warm White:

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Ok. That's why nothing happen when I adjusted it wildly out of range.

It looks like most of your charts have saturation on all three channels, and I don't know if your lamps have a covering glass or without
but i think there should be spectral lines visible from CFL or maybe the lights are still to unfocused and using a webcam in black box with a slit the best option for seeing the lines.




I manged to make a nice chart of my 120W grow light, and since you have upped the standard with naming the title, I will up it one more, by using a very advanced 'gradient background' and disabling legends.


Edit:and the spectra shot.

Bravo, one upped for sure

I tried the black box method and it didn't work at all for me for some reason - seems like the DVD had to be directly against the lens to diffract the light for some reason. No glass on my LEDs but I did fail over and over again to snap a decent pic of CFLs. I'll have to dig up my box of optics and find a legitimate prism for the dark box method. And I assume it doesn't matter but I was using a standard digital camera and not a phone.

Gastanker said:

Bravo, one upped for sure

I tried the black box method and it didn't work at all for me for some reason - seems like the DVD had to be directly against the lens to diffract the light for some reason. No glass on my LEDs but I did fail over and over again to snap a decent pic of CFLs. I'll have to dig up my box of optics and find a legitimate prism for the dark box method. And I assume it doesn't matter but I was using a standard digital camera and not a phone.

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Thanks and a little more up !

I'm thinking about the reference image use, say you take a spectral picture of the light coming from a white paper next to a green leaf,
and another spectral picture of the green leaf, then in the program you use absorbency, the program will use the reference image to calculate
what is coming back, and deduct what's missing and show a chart, what is not reflected or absorbed is passing though and can be measured and used with transmittance I think.

When using absorbency & transmittance the program react to movement to two points on the ref. image, so this must be the use.

wait a minute, - back from taking pictures of color lighter on a white box and see if it works.

Looks like it did. But using a full spectrum light to the experiment would have been better to illustrate the difference, but it's clearly visible on the two images chosen.

The 4 colorful models.


A screenshot of the spectrogram, ref + purple lighter.

This thread has inspired me to do some... science! I had forgotten about spectrometers, the last time I used one was in school, and now I plan to use this technology in this great state to do amazing research ( Colorado whoooo!). Some friends are growing my genetics outside,and I have the same genetics inside. I plan on doing a spectral analysis of both plants, and plan on comparing intensity, and it's changes, at multiple distances throughout the canopy, and multiple times through out the plants life. It looks as though my SDTWxGDP will be the clear favorite for analysis as it has the most vigor, and stunning amounts of color. The plants will undergo the same training and will have spectral intensity measured from the ground up.

This is important to me, as it will let me compare the light a seedling gets at 6" from the ground versus 3' up. Spectral absorbancy will be studied, at the end of the study I will modify my lights and timers to create a "hybrid system" that will loosely replicate the sun cycle through out the day. This is a far cry from full spectral control, but I feel it is the next eventual step for someone looking to enhance the abilities of an indoor system, or at least produce fruit strikingly similar to outdoor produce, but without any hair, bugs, or leaves in it.

+Rep to Rasser please!

Sincerely,
ILove

Tanks. Very interesting and It's good to hear from someone who can use it for something practical and understand what the hell I was talking about, since I barely did.
Please post some pictures when you get it working.

How about this - Strip pigments from the leaf with a solvent. Test absorption of solvent. This is essentially how they map spectral absorption in plants in labs - they just do a much better job separating the different chlorophylls, caratenoids, and tertiary pigments. And of course they have nicer spectral equipment. Would be nice to have a cannabis specific spectral chart.

That sounds like a very very good idea for a hobby project to do on those big leafs that's garbage anyway.

Place a transparent plastic beaker-petri dish on a white light board illuminated by incandescent light and a webcam looking down through.
take two shots, one of the clear solvent and one of the chlorophyll filled solvent and compare. Sounds like a good project for students of all ages.

I remember something about the solvent being water or fat solvable,
so in this case where we do what the chlorophyll, butane and IsoAlcohol
is maybe not the best choice, but what is, water or a mix of water and alcohol. ?

Chlorophyll is soluble in ISO. In this paper they use chloroform and n-propanol - http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2833053?uid=3739560&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=47699101445277

Here they used acetone and methanol - http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/01483917908060061

Hmmm, I think I have a bit of acetone laying around...

Hi

I have received the 10W 660nm RED LED chips and have put one under the microscope and on the test bench.





The chip seen through the microscope:



The test bench setup:



A lens from a binocular:



The chart:

Rasser said:

I'm considering placing 4 chips on a old CPU cooler.

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What do you think will happen if you turn that on? Do the reds run cool enough where you could run 4 x 10 watts per cooler? Cause let's face it, you're just a step away from water cooling if you run them setup that way.

You keep this up Rasser and those LED panel manufacturers are gonna put a hit out on you . How's George at CLW gonna buy a Ferrari if you keep showing people their true options? LOL

FranJan said:

What do you think will happen if you turn that on? Do the reds run cool enough where you could run 4 x 10 watts per cooler? Cause let's face it, you're just a step away from water cooling if you run them setup that way.

You keep this up Rasser and those LED panel manufacturers are gonna put a hit out on you . How's George at CLW gonna buy a Ferrari if you keep showing people their true options? LOL

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Well the LED's are consuming 1050mA * 6.25V = 6.5W * 4 = 26W of electricity
The LED's are ~75% efficient 26W * 0.75 = 19.6 watts of heat is dissipated to the sink.
The cpu cooler is designed for a ~70 watt cpu, going to wiki LINK
"the Pentium 4 2.8 GHz has 68.4 W typical thermal power and 85 W maximum thermal power. When the CPU is idle, it will draw far less than the typical thermal power."
"Datasheets normally contain the thermal design power (TDP), which is the maximum amount of power the cooling system in a computer is required to dissipate."

I'm guessing on a running temperature of 38-48°C(104-122°F) if the above 4 10W's LED are placed on that cooler and the fan is running, at 21°C(69°F) ambient.
But as can be seen in Gastankers thread I'm going for the old extruded aluminum boxes with oversizes fans, but it would make an interesting experiment.

Place your bets !
What temperature do you think it will run at after 5 minutes.

Ding, Thank you !
I just remembered that my multimeter has a temp probe and USB/software to log and the ability to
make a chart over the rising temperature, as the power is switched on.


A ridiculous 2D vehicle, no loss there

Rasser said:

Place your bets !
What temperature do you think it will run at after 5 minutes.

Ding, Thank you !
I just remembered that my multimeter has a temp probe and USB/software to log and the ability to
make a chart over the rising temperature, as the power is switched on.


A ridiculous 2D vehicle, no loss there

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Depending on their design/quality I would think they (4) could hit 130°F, and some LEDs would probably fry soon after. 3 might last, but would probably be under-performing cause of heat and such and they wouldn't last their rated hours I bet. But then again some SMDs are better than others so maybe 4 could be done. What I'm looking into now is what liquid cooling compatible cpu cooler is cheap enough (like some older AMD ones) and work well enough to cool larger SMDs or several smaller ones. I'm always trying to reduce heat in my grow so running a pump with the driver outside the tent appeals to me. And nothing wrong with killing more fans too. My grow rooms sounds like a damn fan factory!

Probe On Professor!

And they are ridiculous cars, but for whatever reasons the ladies love em, so what's a fella with a small penis to do . LOL

I think the CPU cooler is the cheapest way to effectively cool high power LEDs, very good rasser. By the way, you can find similar heatsinks for less than $6 a piece w/ shipping off ebay.
With 20 watts to dissipate, I think the thermal pad of the LEDs can reach 40-45°C. Depending on the thermal resistance of the chip, that would mean a die temperature of 50-55° C which I think reasonable.

My multimeter's temperature probe was not flat like the temperature display I use in my 120W LED grow light,
so it would be difficult to mount that, and since I had one of them left over, I just use that, and I use the multimeter for current measuring anyway.

Ambient room temp 26.2°C - 79.16°F




What a piece of shit,,,


Ready to go:



Maybe its the sensor placement I hear some would say:



31.6°C - 88.8°F

The highest reading was 38°C on the IR crop meter measuring directly down on the LED's


The Timer:



30°C - 86°F thats it.
Amazing considering the ambient temps.

if the mods don't give you a diy sticky......i'm gonna be pissed.......excellent work rasser

patrikantonius said:

I think the CPU cooler is the cheapest way to effectively cool high power LEDs, very good rasser. By the way, you can find similar heatsinks for less than $6 a piece w/ shipping off ebay.
With 20 watts to dissipate, I think the thermal pad of the LEDs can reach 40-45°C. Depending on the thermal resistance of the chip, that would mean a die temperature of 50-55° C which I think reasonable.

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yea I was looking at a cpu coller to cool 10w a couple weeks ago, it would work with a remote ballast pretty damn good

FranJan said:

What I'm looking into now is what liquid cooling compatible cpu cooler is cheap enough (like some older AMD ones) and work well enough to cool larger SMDs or several smaller ones. I'm always trying to reduce heat in my grow so running a pump with the driver outside the tent appeals to me. And nothing wrong with killing more fans too. My grow rooms sounds like a damn fan factory!

Click to expand...

Hi.

When I looked into water cooling some weeks ago, I was discourage by the cost and small size of the cooling heads, the largest was for a PS3/Xbox
but still it was to small and way to expensive. So I thought about using cast aluminum boxes filled with water like this:

But when I thought about it last time I was thinking about 3W LEDs or fitting a Apollo 6 module to the bottom of the box, it seamed to much of a hassle,
but when using big chips, It looks way better for the work required.

FranJan said:

What do you think will happen if you turn that on? Do the reds run cool enough where you could run 4 x 10 watts per cooler? Cause let's face it, you're just a step away from water cooling if you run them setup that way.

You keep this up Rasser and those LED panel manufacturers are gonna put a hit out on you . How's George at CLW gonna buy a Ferrari if you keep showing people their true options? LOL

Click to expand...

Looks like closing the rollitup server works too

FranJan said:

Depending on their design/quality I would think they (4) could hit 130°F, and some LEDs would probably fry soon after. 3 might last, but would probably be under-performing cause of heat and such and they wouldn't last their rated hours I bet. But then again some SMDs are better than others so maybe 4 could be done. What I'm looking into now is what liquid cooling compatible cpu cooler is cheap enough (like some older AMD ones) and work well enough to cool larger SMDs or several smaller ones. I'm always trying to reduce heat in my grow so running a pump with the driver outside the tent appeals to me. And nothing wrong with killing more fans too. My grow rooms sounds like a damn fan factory! Probe On Professor! And they are ridiculous cars, but for whatever reasons the ladies love em, so what's a fella with a small penis to do . LOL

Click to expand...

Haven't got a clue