Effect of Defoliation on Yield - Skywalker OG indoor scrog

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OscarLaGrouch

Well-Known Member
Hey thank you, I had a situation where my available area for flowering was decreased by 30% and decided to put the veg I had waiting in a space that I knew would be crowded. I am not a newbie, I knew this would result and a jungle of medium sized nugs lies beneath a nice even canopy of spears. They will not mature at the same time obviously. What would you do in this situation?
burger (love the name)
In the past I used to chop only the spears or tops and hang those in my dry room. I'd then let the room go another week or so.
Its amazing how much light reaches the canopy underlying the tops. all the leaves are a pale green/yellow right?
I'd let the light reach and 'ripen' this plant material and they'd come along nicely.
However now I am a believer in the whole plant chop, making the previous method unworkable.

You can try tying the tops down a little in a certain direction. As you probably already know, just be careful you don't create a situation where rot will form due to living transpiring plant material all squished together (this IS a scientific phrase). I defol in the last two weeks to open up air circulation and to let light penetrate into the canopy more.
 

OscarLaGrouch

Well-Known Member
guys guys guys
I don't know what is going on cuz I only see neo's responses but let me tell you right now that all the acrimony is getting deleted.
this thread has the potential to be a stikky. read my post from this morning.

keep the science in and the bullshit out
 

OscarLaGrouch

Well-Known Member
You did a great job of proving my point.

If you seriously believe that a scientific hypothesis and a scientific theory are one and the same then you lose all credibility in my eyes, especially after claiming to be educated in the sciences

I'm not bashing, I still support your purpose of this thread. But seriously? No difference between the two words?
Senile
one flip response to a basic question and I lose all credibility? come on, man. of course I know the difference. I just didn't feel like breaking my brain yesterday. I was exhausted. I also really detest it when ppl test me. I posted what I found to be a great explanation from elsewhere on the internet because I was too tired to get into it yesterday.
 

OscarLaGrouch

Well-Known Member
are the PHD yahoos still clamoring for a scientific study? I guess they are gonna have to wait for federal legalization then. so should we not attempt any experiments until then?
 

OscarLaGrouch

Well-Known Member
You and others have posted in here that you will only believe peer reviewed scientific papers, so can we see these scientific papers regarding cannabis defoliation that have convinced you that it doesn't work?
Uh, there are NO scientific papers because no university or corporate lab will touch it with a ten foot pole. we are stuck with my lame unprofessional illegitimate experiment.

I really wish the PHDs would have offered constructive criticism or a little help in formulating the experiment rather than this BS.
 
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Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
You posted a quote and video from Jorge where he says that there is science behind what he is saying about not pulling off leaves, I'm just asking to see this science?
Huh? I posted the science, the function of a leaf. Jorge points his finger at the camera, sternly says "leave the leaves on" and it's like talking to a brick wall with some. Look, you don't want to understand botany, you'll ignore it in favor of group bullshit which revolves around trends, hearsay and anecdotal evidence.

You and others have posted in here that you will only believe peer reviewed scientific papers, so can we see these scientific papers regarding cannabis defoliation that have convinced you that it doesn't work?
Sure can. Mel Franks Insiders Guide. He published many correctly done empirical scientific studies done by the U. of Mississippi on cannabis.

With regards to RC Clarke here is the article in question:

During chlorosis the plant breaks down substances, such as chlorophylls,


During "chlorosis? Chlorosis is a leaf condition induced by a micro deficiency. Where in the hell are you getting this crap?


Can you see what I mean, he doesn't seem 100% sure when it comes to specifics about defoliation. I do understand that this article was written in 1981 so there might have been experiments done since then to prove/disprove the claims that he is making.

I also noticed that his first paragraph there is this line "Large leaves shade the inner portions of the plant, and small atrophied floral clusters may begin to develop if they receive more light.", but you're saying this does not happen as buds don't need light to grow?

I'm genuinely interested in seeing the evidence that has convinced you that defoliation doesn't work, as I find it quite an interesting subject.
You screw around with the original text and then expect me to fall for your failure to communicate and interpret his works correctly?

Get outta here.......
 
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burgertime2010

Well-Known Member
burger (love the name)
In the past I used to chop only the spears or tops and hang those in my dry room. I'd then let the room go another week or so.
Its amazing how much light reaches the canopy underlying the tops. all the leaves are a pale green/yellow right?
I'd let the light reach and 'ripen' this plant material and they'd come along nicely.
However now I am a believer in the whole plant chop, making the previous method unworkable.

You can try tying the tops down a little in a certain direction. As you probably already know, just be careful you don't create a situation where rot will form due to living transpiring plant material all squished together (this IS a scientific phrase). I defol in the last two weeks to open up air circulation and to let light penetrate into the canopy more.
The tops are maxed out and my canopy wont allow it....too may tops as well as two trellis nets locking them into place. I never do a double chop like I am about too but it is amazing herb and a lot less ripe and dense than it should be
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Uh, there are not scientific papers because no university or corporate lab will touch it with a ten foot pole. we are stuck with my lame unprofessional illegitimate experiment.
And folks, this is how Obama was re-elected.

Ignorance is bliss, and kids will be kids.
 

burgertime2010

Well-Known Member
Having a little trouble sorting out your post bit i think youre saying if you flip to flower at the right time instead of letting them overveg then defol is unnecessary. I agree. However there are times I am forced to delay harvest or delay getting plants into flower so by the time I do, they need some pruning and defol to clean them up. I also mainline them.

All plants were started from clone and vegged for three weeks. All plants were topped to the fifth internode. Tops sent to clone tray to root. Both trays contain 18 plants. On 15th day of flower tray A was defoliated of a significant number of mature fan leaves.
Both trays will be chopped on the same day and quantified separately. No extra veg time in either tray.
which post?
 

OscarLaGrouch

Well-Known Member
Huh? I posted the science, the function of a leaf. Jorge points his finger at the camera, sternly says "leave the leaves on" and it's like talking to a brick wall with some. Look, you don't want to understand botany, you'll ignore it in favor of group bullshit which revolves around trends, hearsay and anecdotal evidence.



Sure can. Mel Franks Insiders Guide. He published many correctly done empirical scientific studies done by the U. of Mississippi on cannabis.

During "chlorosis? Chlorosis is a leaf condition induced by a micro deficiency. Where in the hell are you getting this crap?



You screw around with the original text and then expect me to fall for your failure to communicate and interpret his works correctly?

Get outta here.......
Uncle Ben,
Please post the study from U of Miss on defoliation and its affect on yield.
I'm ready to learn.
Oscar, le Grouch
 

OscarLaGrouch

Well-Known Member
Sorry I guess one persons lab is another's grow room, FYI I do refer to my shed as the lab lol, its not lol. Sorry Oscar but the more you try to defend this very interesting, dare I say experiment! I think (IMO) you take away the original intent. Still very interested in the outcome though. And it has raised my curiosity, to say the least lol, in learning more about why there is so much "passion" in the fight not to pluck!!!!
I'm not really defending it. Pretty sure NEO is on the front lines with that. I'm just the guy plucking leaves and wondering how it will all turn out.
 

burgertime2010

Well-Known Member
That is certainly not what I said about Jorge and RC Clarke, I didn't suggest in the slightest that they don't know anything.

You posted a quote and video from Jorge where he says that there is science behind what he is saying about not pulling off leaves, I'm just asking to see this science?

You and others have posted in here that you will only believe peer reviewed scientific papers, so can we see these scientific papers regarding cannabis defoliation that have convinced you that it doesn't work?

With regards to RC Clarke here is the article in question:

If these inhibitor-laden leaves are removed, the plant will proceed to flower, and maturation will be accelerated. Large leaves shade the inner portions of the plant, and small atrophied floral clusters may begin to develop if they receive more light.

In actuality, few if any of the theories behind defoilatin or de-leafing give any indication of validity. Indeed, leafing possibly serves to defeat its original purpose. Large leaves have a definite function in the growth and development of Cannabis. Large leaves serve as photosynthetic factories for the production of sugars and other necessary growth sub-stances. They also create shade, but at the same time they are collecting valuable solar energy and producing foods that will be used during the floral development of the plant.

Premature removal of leaves may cause stunting, because the potential for photosynthesis is reduced. As these leaves age and lose their ability to carry on photo-synthesis they turn chloro tie (yellow) and fall to the ground. In humid areas care is taken to remove the yellow or brown leaves, because they might invite attack by fungus.

During chlorosis the plant breaks down substances, such as chlorophylls, and translocates the molecular components to a new growing part of the plant, such as the flowers. Most Cannabis plants begin to lose their larger leaves when they enter the flowering stage, and this trend continues until senescence. It is more efficient for the plant to reuse the energy and various molecular components of existing chlorophyll than to synthesize new chlorophyll at the time of flowering. During flowering this energy is needed to form floral clusters and ripen seeds.

Removing large amounts of leaves will interfere with the metabolic balance of the plant. If this metabolic change occurs too late in the season it could interfere with floral development and delay maturation. If any floral inhibitors are removed, the intended effect of accelerating flowering will be counteracted by metabolic upset in the plant.

Removal of shade leaves does facilitate more light reaching the center of the plant, but if there is not enough food energy produced in the leaves, the small internal floral clusters will not grow any larger. Leaf removal
may also cause sex reversal resulting from a metabolic change.

Marijuana Botany.Clarke


Can you see what I mean, he doesn't seem 100% sure when it comes to specifics about defoliation. I do understand that this article was written in 1981 so there might have been experiments done since then to prove/disprove the claims that he is making.

I also noticed that his first paragraph there is this line "Large leaves shade the inner portions of the plant, and small atrophied floral clusters may begin to develop if they receive more light.", but you're saying this does not happen as buds don't need light to grow?

I'm genuinely interested in seeing the evidence that has convinced you that defoliation doesn't work, as I find it quite an interesting subject.
I think when properly vegged, topped, and trained defoliation should really haveno purpose unless the leaves are dead or dying. The canopy that is too thick might have problems but the solution is to do it right the nex time. I screwed up and have a jungle that would love to get more light at the bottom....that is my bad....don't blame the leaves
 

OscarLaGrouch

Well-Known Member
I think when properly vegged, topped, and trained defoliation should really haveno purpose unless the leaves are dead or dying. The canopy that is too thick might have problems but the solution is to do it right the nex time. I screwed up and have a jungle that would love to get more light at the bottom....that is my bad....don't blame the leaves
I disagree. These plants are hopped up on nutrients to produce more and bigger flowers. I think the leaves must be the same way. Cannabis grown indoors produces more leaves than it needs. Those leaves are blocking airflow and reducing light penetration. In some cases, excess foliage contributes to bud rot. I need to be proved wrong.
 

OscarLaGrouch

Well-Known Member
Hey thank you, I had a situation where my available area for flowering was decreased by 30% and decided to put the veg I had waiting in a space that I knew would be crowded. I am not a newbie, I knew this would result and a jungle of medium sized nugs lies beneath a nice even canopy of spears. They will not mature at the same time obviously. What would you do in this situation?
this seems like a direct message question, not really relevant to the thread.
 
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