Donald Trump Private Citizen

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
What next on Donald's continuing journey, impeachment first or indictment by the SDNY or state of NY?
A long sordid senate trial or something quicker, to convict him and disqualify him, then move on to important business?
How many "pocket pardons" did he issue? Those you only find out about after they are indicted and produce them.
Is he continuing to write post presidency pardons, say right now? How would you know?

How long will Donald run around loose before someone indicts the fucker?
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Trump Is Leaving Office With a Bunch of Legal Problems — And We’re Not Just Talking About Impeachment | FiveThirtyEight

Trump Is Leaving Office With a Bunch of Legal Problems — And We’re Not Just Talking About Impeachment

President Trump has only hours left in the White House — and the first few months of his time as a former president seem likely to be very different than any of his predecessors’. That’s not just because his popularity is plummeting and his party is splintering over whether to support or condemn him. He’s also leaving office with an impeachment trial and a host of other legal problems on the horizon — not exactly what you’d call a post-presidency glow.

The impeachment trial, in particular, seems likely to ensure that Trump, and his role inciting the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol, remain in the headlines even after he’s left the presidency. Trump won’t be the first president to leave the White House in a cloud of legal liability, of course. But he is likely to have the dubious honor of being the first former president to be tried by the Senate. And the newness of that situation means that there’s a lot of uncertainty about what the trial will look like — and what it will mean for Trump’s personal and political future.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is expected to send the article of impeachment to the Senate tomorrow or Friday, which would officially start the trial at 1 p.m. Eastern the following day and set the stage for opening arguments next week. The details of how the trial will proceed are still being worked out, and Republicans could try to contest its legitimacy because Trump will no longer be president when the trial begins. But even though removal from office will no longer be a viable threat, the result could still be very serious for him. If a two-thirds majority of senators votes to convict him, it would likely take just a simple majority to disqualify him from holding federal office again, dashing any hopes of a Trump comeback in 2024.

Disqualification, of course, hasn’t been used very often as a remedy in the history of impeachment — nor is it common for an impeachment trial to continue after the defendant is no longer in office. But there are historical precedents for both. Three people — all federal judges — have been disqualified from holding future federal office after being impeached and convicted. And in several cases, including one in 1797, just ten years after the Constitution was written, the Senate conducted an impeachment trial after the defendant was no longer in office. In the late nineteenth century, while contemplating a Senate trial for William Belknap, a former Grant administration official mired in a corruption scandal, the Senate voted on whether they actually had jurisdiction to try a former federal officer — and a majority concluded that they did.

Of course, that doesn’t mean that an impeachment trial of a former president will be a simple thing. Trump could still try to challenge the constitutionality of the trial itself, or try to overturn its outcome if he’s ultimately convicted and disqualified. And some Democrats have expressed concern about the prospect of an impeachment trial that stretches into the early months of Biden’s presidency, potentially overshadowing his agenda and eating up time that the Senate could be using to confirm Biden’s Cabinet appointees or to pass legislation like the massive coronavirus stimulus bill that is likely to be one of Biden’s first priorities as president. At one point in the past month, high-ranking House Democrat Jim Clyburn even suggested that the trial be delayed until after Biden’s first 100 days in office.

Biden, though, seems open to the idea of an impeachment trial that unfolds as he’s taking the reins. He said last week that he has spoken to Republican Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell about a possible “bifurcation” process where the Senate would spend half the day on Trump’s impeachment trial and the other half working on a COVID-19 relief bill and confirming Biden’s Cabinet nominees. It’s unclear whether the Senate will adopt this structure, but at the very least it signals that Biden realizes he will likely have to juggle Trump’s impeachment trial among his many priorities.

The trial could be prolonged, though, if Trump decides to fight back. Frank Bowman, a law professor at the University of Missouri and the author of a book on the history of impeachment, said that he could imagine Trump suing to stop the trial from happening, or suing to overturn a conviction, perhaps on the grounds that the Senate doesn’t have power over him once he has left the presidency, since impeachment doesn’t apply to private citizens. The problem, Bowman said, is that the timing of the House vote to impeach Trump — which did happen while Trump was still president — significantly weakens any argument Trump could make about the constitutionality of a trial or conviction happening after he leaves office.
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BudmanTX

Well-Known Member
wanna find out got a couple of lawn chairs and some popcorn?

anyways...he's got a lot of problems now.....i''m pretty sure NY state and NYC would be first on the list as well as the Senate impeachment....

so far in Pardons they're 70, and 70 commutes too from what I've read.....one of the freakiest ones on the pardon list is Steve Bannon, why? He was part of the inserection as well as Stone, and Guiliani.....

Indicts? Prolly sooner than you think honestly.....think he's gonna have legal troubles in DC as well so they're one to watch to see if it comes down the pipe....
 

hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
He fled NY knowing nobody is going to extradite a former President. Even Israel jails corrupt PMs and investgates them while in office. Trump was the biggest shit show the world has ever seen from the home of “freedom and democracy.”

However his asshead fans are all you should need to see to appreciate it that we’re a democratic republic and not a democracy.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Do we need another trump thread?
I'm exhausted and would be happy to never see or hear him again.
We can finally breath again.
All those threads were about the doings of the Donald, this one concerns itself with the doing of the Donald. This thread will chronicle Donald's journey through Hell, all those other ones were about injustice, this one is about justice. The wheels of justice ground slowly for Donald, but they will grind him into dust over the next year or two.

We could be hearing more about Donald's legal woes soon, he will have a date with impeachment and a judge soon, there will also be FBI interviews and grand juries. Face it, Joe is boring and he wants it that way, politics should be boring, not a life and death struggle. We will be hearing from Donald as the center of many different conspiracies, like with De Joy who impleaded the US mail, or the Ukrainian affair and others we have not heard about. They will indict Donald to get others who were part of a conspiracy with him

Joe's government will rapidly become boring, the novelty of competency will quickly wear off and by then Donald and his minions should be under serious public investigation. Also the thousands of morons who sacked the capital will be coming up for trial and sentencing. Politics done well is boring, as it should be, you never hear much about the financial world unless something is going wrong! After Donald is in prison you won't hear much about him except when he comes up for another trial. You should never forget Donald, the next one will be smarter and worse, the base is still there and active measures will have to be taken to deal with it.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Donald Trump's Legacy: Tax Cuts, Covid-19 Deaths and a Border Wall - Bloomberg

So Long, Citizen Trump
Assessing the former president’s legacy as he leaves power.

Departing the White House aboard Marine One on Wednesday, Donald Trump flew over an uneasy capital sewn tight by armed troops and razor wire. The seat of the federal government was a crime scene awash in a pandemic, and Trump was fleeing to Joint Base Andrews for a last ride aboard the presidential jet to his Palm Beach country club.

As he stood on the tarmac near Air Force One amid a small crowd of aides and loyalists, a military band and several hundred fewer Army cannons than he probably wanted, the first president in modern history to skip his successor’s inauguration promised there would be a second act.

“What we've done has been amazing by any standard,” he allowed. “We will be back in some form.”

Perhaps. But Trump is now a private citizen and no longer has access to the nuclear codes or the national psyche. A profoundly lonely man who spent months neglecting his duties while fomenting an insurrection now faces a future beset with financial and legal perils. His psychological shortcomings leave him indifferent about his legacy, but it should still concern the rest of us.

The four signature policy achievements of Trump’s presidency were a massive tax cut that largely benefitted the most affluent Americans and major corporations, a more conservative federal judiciary, a wave of environmental deregulation, and a more pugnacious approach to China. The tax cut didn’t provide the economic boost its advocates claimed, and there was much less to the White House’s deregulation boasts than met the eye. U.S. diplomatic and trade stances toward China are likely to remain hardened in substance even if they become more sophisticated in form. Reshaping the court was an epic and long-lasting accomplishment.

Only the fisticuffs with China required a Trump presidency to be fully realized. Any Republican in the Oval Office, working with former Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and a Republican House of Representatives, would have been able to get a tax cut, a smattering of deregulation and a conservative court. Trump’s ineptitude helped undermine the same team’s attempt to dismantle the Affordable Care Act. He largely stayed out of the way (while golfing, tweeting, sleeping and ranting) on the other policy wins, except China.

The trade-off for empowering Trump to get this little set of touchdowns? Mismanagement of the Covid-19 pandemic and the attendant loss of life, economic devastation and social unrest. A shameful crackdown on immigrants that tore families apart and turned the U.S. border with Mexico into a militarized zone. The weaponization of racism and bigotry alongside the enfranchisement of white nationalism. Rampant, unchecked financial conflicts of interest. Public corruption and disregard for the rule of law. A cast of White House characters reminiscent of Bond villains. Environmental degradation. Civic fissures and street violence. Yawning income inequality. Reputational loss overseas. Incessant propaganda. The Capitol under siege and democracy in play. Two impeachments.

Trump’s eleventh-hour pardons also illustrated how tragicomic his administration was. He pardoned his former adviser and campaign manager, Steve Bannon, who had been charged with stealing money from Trump supporters who thought they were funding a border wall. Another pardon was granted because Trump took the advice of three oddballs who inhabit his personal funhouse — the “Diamond and Silk” duo and Paula White, a televangelist. This is the same Trump who also ignored pandemic advice from the eminent infectious disease expert Anthony Fauci.

All of this wreckage was telegraphed long before Trump became president. As my colleague Jonathan Bernstein noted: “Believe politicians when they tell you who they will be in office.” The only surprises were how easily Trump corrupted the people, institutions, and processes surrounding him. His legacy, on balance, is abhorrent. Some presidents dream about the libraries that house their legacies. Trump doesn’t even read.
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DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Looks like Mitch wants to take his time with Donald and do him real slow! Why not, get Biden's cabinet confirmed, perhaps Donald indicted and some other essential stuff done first. It will give time to build a detailed case and multiple counts, Donald has no defense to present, the senate was both the witness and victim, it will also be the judge and jury.

Many of those who sacked the capital will be tried or on trial while this is going on and Donald might be facing criminal indictment for it himself. There could also be house members expelled and indicted over this by then too, so delaying the senate trial until the end of February might not be a bad plan. The longer they wait the more evidence of sedition comes to light and the worse it looks for Donald.
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McConnell proposes delaying impeachment trial until February so Trump team can prepare - CNNPolitics

McConnell proposes delaying impeachment trial until February so Trump team can prepare

(CNN)Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell is proposing that the Senate give former President Donald Trump's legal team two weeks to prepare for the upcoming impeachment trial once the Senate receives the article and delay its start until mid-February.

McConnell's proposal to Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer throws the timing of the trial further into doubt, though it remains to be seen if Democrats would go along with the plan. House Democrats could still send the impeachment article over to the Senate and start the trial the next day.
Asked if he had heard a response from Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, McConnell told CNN Wednesday, "Not yet but we continue to talk about it."
In a statement, McConnell said he wants to structure the trial so that the ceremonial functions, like the formal reading of the impeachment article, would occur next week on Thursday, January 28. Trump would have another week under McConnell's plan to answer the article by February 4, and the following week Trump's team would submit a pre-trial brief, before the trial would begin. The House would also submit briefs over those two weeks before the trial gets underway in mid-February.
McConnell told Republicans on a conference call Thursday he's in no rush to begin the trial. The Republican leader's point was the House moved quickly on impeachment but the Senate needs time to prepare for a full trial, according to sources on the call.
"At this time of strong political passions, Senate Republicans believe it is absolutely imperative that we do not allow a half-baked process to short-circuit the due process that former President Trump deserves or damage the Senate or the presidency," McConnell said in a statement.
While the decision on when to start the trial is up to Democrats, there are reasons congressional Democrats -- and the Biden White House -- may be amenable to a delay in the trial, as it would give the Senate a chance to confirm more of Biden's Cabinet nominees. Democrats are reviewing McConnell's offer and several aides said Wednesday that waiting may not be a bad idea, because allowing more time would give them the space they need to move Biden's nominees along while still holding Trump accountable.
"I think Democrats will be open to considering a delay that allows former President Trump time to assemble his legal team and his defense for the impeachment trial, if we are making progress on confirming" Biden's nominees, Sen. Chris Coons, a Delaware Democrat, told CNN's Wolf Blitzer on "The Situation Room."
Schumer spokesman Justin Goodman said Thursday, "We received Leader McConnell's proposal that only deals with pre-trial motions late this afternoon. We will review it and discuss it with him."
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said at a news conference Thursday that the House was "ready" to begin the trial but would wait until the Senate was prepared before formally transmitting the impeachment article, the step that would trigger the start of the trial the following day.
"They have now informed us they are ready to receive, the question is other questions about how a trial will proceed, but we are ready," Pelosi said of the Senate.
Asked about a delay to the trial, White House communications director Kate Bedingfield reiterated that the White House will "leave timing mechanics to Senate leadership."
She noted that Biden has spoken previously with both Schumer and McConnell, and it is his hope that Congress can "focus on a Covid package simultaneously."
"The articles could be walked over Friday," one source told CNN.
House Democrats were in discussions to send over the article of impeachment to the Senate as early as Friday, two sources say, though one complicating factor was that Trump's legal team remained a question mark on Thursday morning.
But it appears Trump now has at least one lawyer for the trial. Sen. Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican and ally of the former President, said in a conference call with Senate Republicans Thursday that South Carolina lawyer Butch Bowers will represent Trump at his impeachment trial, according to a person on the call.
Trump's campaign spokesman, Jason Miller, confirmed on Twitter that Bowers would represent Trump for the trial. CNN has reached out to Bowers for comment.
Graham told reporters that he would urge Trump's legal team to "focus on the unconstitutional argument" that a former president cannot be convicted by the Senate.
"They didn't present any evidence in the House, so I don't know if you can present evidence in the Senate that you didn't present -- I guess you could -- but we'll make our own decisions about did the President go too far, was this incitement under the law, what's the right outcome there? So it should be a quick trial really, quite frankly," Graham said.
Republicans have urged Democrats to abandon the Senate impeachment trial of Trump, arguing both that it's unconstitutional and that it directly undercuts Biden's inauguration message of unity in the first days of his presidency.
Pelosi rejected those calls on Thursday.
"No, I'm not worried about that," she said. "The fact is, the President of the United States committed an act of incitement of insurrection. I don't think it's very unifying to say, oh, let's just forget it and move on. That's not how you unify. ... You don't say to a president 'Do whatever you want in the last months of your administration, you're going to get a get-out-of-jail card free.'"
Senate Democratic leaders say they don't know when the trial will begin, though Schumer pledged there would be a vote on whether to convict Trump on the House's charge of "incitement of insurrection."
"Leader McConnell and I are trying to come up with a bipartisan agreement on how to conduct the trial," Schumer said Thursday. "But make no mistake about it. There will be a trial, there will be a vote up or down on whether to convict the president. I believe he should be convicted. And we'll have to wait to see when she sends the articles over to figure out how to do all that."
Asked when the articles might be sent, Senate Democratic Whip Dick Durbin said it was still unresolved.
"Whether or not it's going to be a full blown trial with evidence and witnesses, or 'expedited' -- whatever that means -- that final decision isn't even close," Durbin added.
During Trump's 2020 impeachment trial, House impeachment managers focused much of their case on the need to have witnesses in the trial to corroborate their charges that Trump sought Ukraine's help to undermine Biden ahead of the 2020 campaign. That push ultimately failed, as Republicans voted against hearing witnesses before Trump was acquitted.
This time around, Democrats are eyeing a quick trial, given the fact that the Senate is likely to be stalled while the trial is ongoing -- meaning Biden's Cabinet nominees would be delayed in getting confirmed.
Democrats have yet to say whether they will seek witnesses for this trial, but Pelosi hinted Thursday they might not need to do so, saying the decision would be up to the managers.
"I do see a big difference between something we all witnessed versus information you might need to substantiate an article of impeachment based in large part on a call the President made and described as perfect," Pelosi said. "This year, the whole world bore witness to the President's incitement, to the execution of his call to action and the violence that was used."
House impeachment managers are meeting and preparing to make their case to the Senate, and Democrats remain hopeful they can convince 17 Republican to convict Trump, especially given the fact that McConnell has indicated he is keeping an open mind and will listen to the argument.
A faction of Senate Republicans, however, are warning McConnell that his backing will quickly wane in the Senate GOP conference if he votes to convict Trump.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Explainer: With no self-pardon in hand, private citizen Trump faces uncertain legal future | Reuters

Explainer: With no self-pardon in hand, private citizen Trump faces uncertain legal future

(Reuters) - Donald Trump issued a list of pardons during his final hours as U.S. president but did not include himself, his children, or personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani, even though advisers said he had privately debated the extraordinary step of a self-pardon.

Here is how the decision could impact his potential civil and criminal liability as a private citizen:

What may have guided Trump’s decision not to pardon himself and members of his inner circle?

Presidential pardons can only accomplish so much. They can shut down prosecutions by the U.S. Department of Justice, a federal agency. But investigations brought by state-level prosecutors, such as the criminal probe Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance is leading into whether Trump’s businesses engaged in fraud, would still be active.

Vance has not charged anyone with criminal wrongdoing and Trump has said the investigation is politically motivated.

A self-pardon would have only increased calls to prosecute Trump on a state level, said Daniel R. Alonso, a lawyer at the Buckley firm and Vance’s former deputy in the Manhattan District Attorney’s Office.

It could also have fueled efforts to hold Trump accountable through civil lawsuits brought by private litigants, such as family members of people who died during the Jan. 6 storming of the U.S. Capitol by Trump followers, said Jessica Levinson, a professor at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles.

Before the attack, as lawmakers were certifying Democrat Joe Biden’s Nov. 3 election victory, Republican Trump took to a stage near the White House and exhorted a crowd of supporters repeatedly to “fight” - using the word more than 20 times - and “not take it any longer.” He also called on his followers to march on the Capitol, the seat of government.

“With a pardon comes at least the veneer of an admission of guilty,” said Levinson. “In a way, I think pardoning himself and his family is almost like a taunt. It would have said ‘try to come and get me,’ and would have accelerated litigation and investigation.”

There is also considerable doubt among scholars about whether a self-pardon would hold up in court. Many experts said it violates the basic principle that no person should be the judge in his or her own case.

Self-serving pardons might also have drawn the ire of Republicans in the U.S. Senate, who will soon have a trial to determine whether Trump’s Jan. 6 speech was incitement, the charge in his impeachment by the House of Representatives.

The trial could result in Trump being disqualified from future office.

Would a pardon for Giuliani have helped Trump?

The answer is likely yes, though hard to speculate, legal experts said.

Giuliani had dealings with Ukrainians on Trump’s behalf when he was trying to dig up dirt on Biden and his son Hunter Biden. Trump’s efforts led to his first impeachment by the House in December 2019 and the Republican-majority Senate acquitted him in February 2020.

In November 2019, federal prosecutors in New York sought records of payments to Giuliani as part of an active criminal investigation, according to a grand jury subpoena seen by Reuters.

Prosecutors were investigating money laundering, wire fraud, campaign finance violations, making false statements, obstruction of justice, and violations of the Foreign Agents Registration Act, according to the subpoena.

Giuliani has denied any wrongdoing.

The scope and status of the investigation is unclear, and Giuliani has not been charged with wrongdoing. It is also unclear if he knows anything about Trump that would be valuable to prosecutors.

But not receiving a pardon makes it more likely that Giuliani would cooperate with prosecutors and implicate Trump if charged, said Jessica Roth, a professor at the Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law and a former federal prosecutor.

“Without the possibility of a pardon, the prospect of a conviction and potential prison sentence becomes more real, providing an incentive to cooperate to receive more favorable treatment,” Roth said.

Trump may have decided against pardoning Giuliani because he lost a series of lawsuits brought on behalf of Trump attempting to invalidate Biden as the election winner, Levinson said.

Could Trump have pardoned himself and others in secret?

It’s possible, said former prosecutor Alonso.

Pardons are usually made public. But the Constitution does not require this, and Trump could secretly issue preemptive pardons to family members and associates, or even himself, said Alonso.

The Presidential Records Act requires documentation of presidential decisions but the law lacks a mechanism for enforcing it, Alonso said. A secret pardon might only become public if the recipient were eventually charged with a federal crime and invoked the pardon as a defense.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
No dice, looks like a fast trial date for Donald, but perhaps not a fast senate trial, that depends on Mitch. Dunno how much detail they want to go into, but the facts speak for themselves, the senate were both victims and witnesses. If they acquit him and a court later convicts him for the same crime they will look like even bigger assholes. There is a split coming in the republican party and this will force it out into the open, they will have to pick a side. Trump has no defense, we were all witnesses. I assume that the evidence presented in the impeachment trial will be used in the criminal one, since it's a crime too.
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Senate to receive Trump impeachment article Monday, Senate trial could begin next week (nbcnews.com)

Senate to receive Trump impeachment article Monday, Senate trial could begin next week
The Senate could delay the start of the trial to allow Trump to organize his defense.

WASHINGTON — House Speaker Nancy Pelosi will transmit to the Senate on Monday an article of impeachment against former President Donald Trump, Majority Leader Chuck Schumer announced Friday.

The House impeached Trump the week before he left office for allegedly inciting a deadly riot at the Capitol on Jan. 6 in an attempt to overturn the result of the 2020 election. The Senate will now be required to determine whether he should be convicted of the charge, a decision that could prohibit him from running for public office again.

The transmission will trigger preparations for a trial that could start as early as next week, but Senate leaders indicated it may be delayed to allow Trump to organize his defense.

"Make no mistake: A trial will be held in the United States Senate, and there will be a vote whether to convict the president," Schumer, a New York Democrat, said. "Senators will have to decide if they believe Donald John Trump incited the insurrection against the United States."

A conviction requires a two-thirds majority, which means at least 17 Republicans would have to join all of the Democrats.

If convicted, the Senate is also expected to vote on whether to bar Trump from holding office again.

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., said Trump is owed a "full and fair process where the former president can mount a defense."

McConnell suggested Thursday that a trial be delayed to mid-February to give time for preparations, which would also allow the Senate to approve more of President Joe Biden's cabinet.

McConnell has said he's undecided on whether to convict Trump. His vote could carry significant influence over a caucus he has led for 14 years.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Schumer Announces Article Of Impeachment Against Trump Will Be Delivered To Senate On Monday

Sen. Chuck Schumer announced on the Senate floor that the House of Representatives will submit the article of impeachment against former President Trump on Monday and the Senate will then hold a trial.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
These fascist parties usually have a "night of the long knives"
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Republicans quietly lobby him to convict Trump

Former top Trump administration officials have been lobbying GOP lawmakers to try and convict Trump at his upcoming impeachment trial.
 
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