DiY LEDs - How to Power Them

exoticcloud said:

Thanks for the reply man ! really appreciate your help,
Im wondering why people want MW when these drivers seems more advanced by far, they even got led protection and Im amazed about the built in programming dimming capability
seems like the
EUD-480SxxxDV with 2100 ma to 2800ma can be good candidate hope the arctic 64 will handle the heat better said 3 of them would you agree?
thank you for the link and the help

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Yeah, because you need a programmer and a PC each time you want to dimm the light down. Its not very comfortable. I use my dimmer each time I need to open my tent otherwise one could see the light from outside my house. The programmer has to be connected all the time and I would need a small windows tablet and the corresponding app running all the time so I can make changes without much effort... yeah, in this case it would be okay for me. But to simply turn a dimming knob is still easier and way faster.

And about the heat sinks, I believe the Arctic 64 is rated for 100w CPUs like i7 xx00k. So he should be at least capable to work with 150w COB's for instance with a Vero29c or Citizen clu48-1825. I've used Alpine11's to run Vero29gen4 at 3amps and the heat sinks you could touch anytime without burning your fingers. Maybe 50°C or so.. Current COBs are at least 10-15% more efficient so I expect no issues even if you use the full 2,8amps of the driver.

Randomblame said:

Yeah, because you need a programmer and a PC each time you want to dimm the light down. Its not very comfortable. I use my dimmer each time I need to open my tent otherwise one could see the light from outside my house. The programmer has to be connected all the time and I would need a small windows tablet and the corresponding app running all the time so I can make changes without much effort... yeah, in this case it would be okay for me. But to simply turn a dimming knob is still easier and way faster.

And about the heat sinks, I believe the Arctic 64 is rated for 100w CPUs like i7 xx00k. So he should be at least capable to work with 150w COB's for instance with a Vero29c or Citizen clu48-1825. I've used Alpine11's to run Vero29gen4 at 3amps and the heat sinks you could touch anytime without burning your fingers. Maybe 50°C or so.. Current COBs are at least 10-15% more efficient so I expect no issues even if you use the full 2,8amps of the driver.

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The programmer doesnt have to stay connected. Once you program the driver you can unhook from it. Atleast that's how the one I have works. It came from the factory set at 4400mA I changed it to 2800mA and unhooked my laptop and programmer. And it stayed at 2800mA. But it is easier like you said to jus turn a knob. Than to hook all back up to a windows based laptop or tablet when you wanna adjust it.

whytewidow said:

The programmer doesnt have to stay connected. Once you program the driver you can unhook from it. Atleast that's how the one I have works. It came from the factory set at 4400mA I changed it to 2800mA and unhooked my laptop and programmer. And it stayed at 2800mA. But it is easier like you said to jus turn a knob. Than to hook all back up to a windows based laptop or tablet when you wanna adjust it.

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Yeah, thats the downside with them. I wish they would add bluetooth and develope a smartphone app with the ability to control multiple channels independently or in groups. I need no internet connection, just bluetooth. That would be nice.
ERP has some nice drivers with app control but I believe the bigger ones are still not released yet. But the smaller ones are already available..

Randomblame said:

Yeah, thats the downside with them. I wish they would add bluetooth and develope a smartphone app with the ability to control multiple channels independently or in groups. I need no internet connection, just bluetooth. That would be nice.
ERP has some nice drivers with app control but I believe the bigger ones are still not released yet. But the smaller ones are already available..

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I think meanwell offers programmable driver with dali interface.

;

Randomblame said:

Yeah, because you need a programmer and a PC each time you want to dimm the light down. Its not very comfortable. I use my dimmer each time I need to open my tent otherwise one could see the light from outside my house. The programmer has to be connected all the time and I would need a small windows tablet and the corresponding app running all the time so I can make changes without much effort... yeah, in this case it would be okay for me. But to simply turn a dimming knob is still easier and way faster.

And about the heat sinks, I believe the Arctic 64 is rated for 100w CPUs like i7 xx00k. So he should be at least capable to work with 150w COB's for instance with a Vero29c or Citizen clu48-1825. I've used Alpine11's to run Vero29gen4 at 3amps and the heat sinks you could touch anytime without burning your fingers. Maybe 50°C or so.. Current COBs are at least 10-15% more efficient so I expect no issues even if you use the full 2,8amps of the driver.

Click to expand...

Randomblame said:

Yeah, thats the downside with them. I wish they would add bluetooth and develope a smartphone app with the ability to control multiple channels independently or in groups. I need no internet connection, just bluetooth. That would be nice.
ERP has some nice drivers with app control but I believe the bigger ones are still not released yet. But the smaller ones are already available..

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Im wondering now guys, If I would turn off thre driver for a while by unplugging it, the settings get deleted? I totally understand what you mean with the light that can be seen, I really hate the feeling when somebody opens a blindfold or a window, really drops a heart down and rage to the max with a blaming question type didnt I tell you to not to open? lol. Back to the driver, If I turn the light off by unplugging will the settings stay there?

Randomblame said:

Yeah, thats the downside with them. I wish they would add bluetooth and develope a smartphone app with the ability to control multiple channels independently or in groups. I need no internet connection, just bluetooth. That would be nice.
ERP has some nice drivers with app control but I believe the bigger ones are still not released yet. But the smaller ones are already available..

Click to expand...

I would not mind If I would be able to control it like that even with an old thick wire and old windows computer, totally worth it if doable.

The main reason for me in comparison to dimming knob is the sunrise sunset, gradual dimming which put less stress on the ladies
wish you guys heavy harvests of that artisan medicinal buds, may your buds be pest free and your moms healthy for the new year!

exoticcloud said:

;



Im wondering now guys, If I would turn off thre driver for a while by unplugging it, the settings get deleted? I totally understand what you mean with the light that can be seen, I really hate the feeling when somebody opens a blindfold or a window, really drops a heart down and rage to the max with a blaming question type didnt I tell you to not to open? lol. Back to the driver, If I turn the light off by unplugging will the settings stay there?

I would not mind If I would be able to control it like that even with an old thick wire and old windows computer, totally worth it if doable.

The main reason for me in comparison to dimming knob is the sunrise sunset, gradual dimming which put less stress on the ladies
wish you guys heavy harvests of that artisan medicinal buds, may your buds be pest free and your moms healthy for the new year!

Click to expand...

Once you program the driver it stores that info. Even if unplugged for any period of time. The one I have has been unplugged for 2 weeks or so. And I just hooked it up. Still the same settings. Doesnt change. Until you change it.

Hey guys gotta a few questions..

1. Will a 320h-c1400a need a 220VAC input to push 224VDC? (I've been told drivers can't push more VDC than whatever VAC is at the wall?? Seems spec sheet contradicts this assumption?)..


2. Are the FSP drivers programmable in the way you guys are talking about with the inventronics thing? It says they are programmable??




Ultimately want to run (4) QB304+'s (w heatsinks and fans) with (2) 320w 1400mA drivers (hlg, fsp, inventronics, idc, just what's cheapest) dimmed down to about 224VDC @ 1280mA, or 2.95v @ 160mA per diode.

QB304+
38S/8P
(256) LM561C - 200Ma max
(48 ) Epistar 660nm - 180mA max

Diode limits (I think this is the Epistar it has)...


Lm561c graphs..

ChiefRunningPhist said:

Hey guys gotta a few questions..

1. Will a 320h-c1400a need a 220VAC input to push 224VDC? (I've been told drivers can't push more VDC than whatever VAC is at the wall?? Seems spec sheet contradicts this assumption?)..
View attachment 4257858

2. Are the FSP drivers programmable in the way you guys are talking about with the inventronics thing? It says they are programmable??
View attachment 4257857



Ultimately want to run (4) QB304+'s (w heatsinks and fans) with (2) 320w 1400mA drivers (hlg, fsp, inventronics, idc, just what's cheapest) dimmed down to about 224VDC @ 1280mA, or 2.95v @ 160mA per diode.

QB304+
38S/8P
(256) LM561C - 200Ma max
(48 ) Epistar 660nm - 180mA max

Diode limits (I think this is the Epistar it has)...
View attachment 4257861 View attachment 4257862

Lm561c graphs..
View attachment 4257868

Click to expand...

Some meanwell drivers are programmable with DALI interface. Yes. And the input has nothing to do with output. As ling as it's getting the voltage required to operate. The output is adjusted by what you draw. I'm running 120vac and pushing more voltage than that in dc.

whytewidow said:

Some meanwell drivers are programmable with DALI interface. Yes. And the input has nothing to do with output. As ling as it's getting the voltage required to operate. The output is adjusted by what you draw. I'm running 120vac and pushing more voltage than that in dc.

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Thanks ill look more into Inventronics drivers. Just looking for the cheapest but still durable quality drivers (isn't everybody? Lol) and really like the programmable feature, seems it would be more precise.

ChiefRunningPhist said:

Thanks ill look more into Inventronics drivers. Just looking for the cheapest but still durable quality drivers (isn't everybody? Lol) and really like the programmable feature, seems it would be more precise.

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Yeah the hlg320h700 puts out 214vdc-428dc
With input of 90vac-305vac. If you hook 120vac, essentially you can draw 428vdc which would run 17.8 Samsung strips in series. But I wouldnt run them all in series. And run high voltage like that. Be better at 24vdc in parallel. Well series parallel when running that many. 16 strips you could run all in parallel. Or 4 groups of series in parallel. Maybe not with that exact driver. Wired in series parallel. But wired that way. But anyway @120vac you can draw 214vdc-428vdc.

ChiefRunningPhist said:

Thanks ill look more into Inventronics drivers. Just looking for the cheapest but still durable quality drivers (isn't everybody? Lol) and really like the programmable feature, seems it would be more precise.

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What are you building?

I just got a test panel from waveform. Gonna run a test grow with for them. And then may use it to build a kickass veg light with some strips around it. 1 footers and 2 footers. If the panel does what they say. 108w 24vdc 4.5A max zero heatsinking needed to hold 4.5a so I'm willing to bet with some good active cooling on the back of it. She can hold more than 4.5a lol.

whytewidow said:

I just got a test panel from waveform. Gonna run a test grow with for them. And then may use it to build a kickass veg light with some strips around it. 1 footers and 2 footers. If the panel does what they say. 108w 24vdc 4.5A max zero heatsinking needed to hold 4.5a so I'm willing to bet with some good active cooling on the back of it. She can hold more than 4.5a lol.

View attachment 4257928

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Nice! The Test report for the 4k board says 280μMol/s PPF at 108w thats ~2,59μMol/J. Not bad especially with all these resistors. With a CC layout it could be ~2,7. At least the boards are much better compared to their CRI99 strips and COBs.

whytewidow said:

What are you building?

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This, ordered (4) 304+'s w Heatsinks, looking to drive them a little harder than typically done for a 4'×4', and then scrap the 4'×4' and put the 304+'s in (2) 2'×4' ...

ChiefRunningPhist said:

Ultimately want to run (4) QB304+'s (w heatsinks and fans) with (2) 320w 1400mA drivers (hlg, fsp, inventronics, idc, just what's cheapest) dimmed down to about 224VDC @ 1280mA, or 2.95v @ 160mA per diode.

QB304+
38S/8P
(256) LM561C - 200Ma max
(48 ) Epistar 660nm - 180mA max

Diode limits (I think this is the Epistar it has)...
View attachment 4257861 View attachment 4257862

Lm561c graphs..
View attachment 4257868

Click to expand...

*********

whytewidow said:

What are you building?

Click to expand...

But also was just confirming my understanding of the operations of the CC drivers because I have a bunch of these that I tested out to be driven with ~73v @ .38A for 30w. 72/73v negates the CV drivers I'm used to and because I don't know the exact diode (~6.05v per diode, 12S3P) I think a programmable driver would be beneficial. (Or does a programmable driver not give you more versatility in tuning?)

Probably do 12 squares (6S2P), on some aluminium angle, per 240w 1400mA driver (idk what brand), and dim them down to ~200w (146v @ 1.37A), or 73v @ .225mA per square so they don't get hot...

ChiefRunningPhist said:

This, ordered (4) 304+'s w Heatsinks, looking to drive them a little harder than typically done for a 4'×4', and then scrap the 4'×4' and put the 304+'s in (2) 2'×4' ...



*********




But also was just confirming my understanding of the operations of the CC drivers because I have a bunch of these View attachment 4257948 View attachment 4257947 that I tested out to be driven with ~73v @ .38A for 30w. 72/73v negates the CV drivers I'm used to and because I don't know the exact diode (~6.05v per diode, 12S3P) I think a programmable driver would be beneficial. (Or does a programmable driver not give you more versatility in tuning?)

Probably do 12 squares (6S2P), on some aluminium angle, per 240w 1400mA driver (idk what brand), and dim them down to ~200w (146v @ 1.37A), or 73v @ .225mA per square so they don't get hot...

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Are you sure these boards are 73v boards? SMD2835 usually is 0,5w maximum or up to 150-180mA. +6v per diode means there must be two 3v chips in series per diode. Maximum could be up to 1w for that reason but I've not seen such 6v diodes from Epistar. Its also possible the max current is much lower because of the two chip design.
How did you measure voltage and current? Multimeter? Or just calculated from wall watts? With "normal" 2835 vf should be ~36v and maximum with 3 parallel strings should be 540mA which means ~20w.
Strange lil' boards..

Instead of just dimming you'll get dimming, timer control and sun rise/sunset feature with the programable drivers, btw.

Randomblame said:

Are you sure these boards are 73v boards? SMD2835 usually is 0,5w maximum or up to 150-180mA. +6v per diode means there must be two 3v chips in series per diode. Maximum could be up to 1w for that reason but I've not seen such 6v diodes from Epistar. Its also possible the max current is much lower because of the two chip design.
How did you measure voltage and current? Multimeter? Or just calculated from wall watts? With "normal" 2835 vf should be ~36v and maximum with 3 parallel strings should be 540mA which means ~20w.
Strange lil' boards..

Instead of just dimming you'll get dimming, timer control and sun rise/sunset feature with the programable drivers, btw.

Click to expand...

Where I talked about testing @ 6v...
1. https://www.rollitup.org/p/14643935/
2. https://www.rollitup.org/p/14641694/

This Epistar?...
https://www.rollitup.org/p/14640059/


I thought 2835 were typically 3v too..
https://www.rollitup.org/p/14639943/

I tested via multimeter. I tested at the driver output leads for total operating voltage (in parallel) as well as across several individual diodes (in parallel) to confirm the 12S/3P wiring pattern (I think?). I cut and wired the multimeter between the negative lead from the square and E27 driver to test for total driver output I (in series). I did not pop off an individual diode to test individual I. The killawatt reads ~30w, and the math validates my measurements, I do believe.

I agree, *in my best 'bigclivedotcom' voice* "curious little boards, interesting,..." Lol


EDIT: I mixed up Epistar with Luxeon.

ChiefRunningPhist said:

Where I talked about testing @ 6v...
1. https://www.rollitup.org/p/14643935/
2. https://www.rollitup.org/p/14641694/

This Epistar?...
https://www.rollitup.org/p/14640059/


I thought 2835 were typically 3v too..
https://www.rollitup.org/p/14639943/

I tested via multimeter. I tested at the driver output leads for total operating voltage (in parallel) as well as across several individual diodes (in parallel) to confirm the 12S/3P wiring pattern (I think?). I cut and wired the multimeter between the negative lead from the square and E27 driver to test for total driver output I (in series). I did not pop off an individual diode to test individual I. The killawatt reads ~30w, and the math validates my measurements, I do believe.

I agree, *in my best 'bigclivedotcom' voice* "curious little boards, interesting,..." Lol


EDIT: I mixed up Epistar with Luxeon.

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If thats really Luxeons they are not too shaby. 145lm/w at 120mA means at least +2,0μMol/J efficiency, maybe 2,1.
Better than CMH(efficiency wise) and far better like most am4zon blurples. I would make a huge DIY heatsink from 2mm alu sheet and a few added U-channels on the backside.

This one has 24x 14" and I've glued eight 10x 20x 10mm u-channels(20") on the backside(thermal tape).




Currently it works with 150w strips + COB's and temps stay stable below 50°C at max. current..


Added 2 side lights last week based on 5k Blux EBgen2 running at 600mA. I will use the little area for the next 12 weeks or so for the party cup competition.

Randomblame said:

If thats really Luxeons they are not too shaby. 145lm/w at 120mA means at least +2,0μMol/J efficiency, maybe 2,1.
Better than CMH(efficiency wise) and far better like most am4zon blurples. I would make a huge DIY heatsink from 2mm alu sheet and a few added U-channels on the backside.

This one has 24x 14" and I've glued eight 10x 20x 10mm u-channels(20") on the backside(thermal tape).


View attachment 4258096

Currently it works with 150w strips + COB's and temps stay stable below 50°C at max. current..
View attachment 4258099

Added 2 side lights last week based on 5k Blux EBgen2 running at 600mA. I will use the little area for the next 12 weeks or so for the party cup competition.

Click to expand...

Nice, good luck in the comp!


That's kind of what I been hoping (and screaming lol) because the lights grow the plants well. Not as efficient as LM301b/LM561c (or many others I'm sure) but for $0.80/square ,140lm/w is not bad.

I can't find much info on 6v 2835s so was trying to calculate light output by the worst 6v diode available and the luxeon is the first 6v I came across and seemed to match the way they were driven.

I like your DIY heatsink. I was going to build a rack like @wietefras COB rack with CPU heat sinks on the backside of the angle aluminium (if needed) so that I could mount fans in the ceiling and have them blow down through the lights.

Do you know of any other 6v diodes and do you think its too bold to suggest they are the Luxeon 2835c like I was postulating?

Randomblame said:

Nice! The Test report for the 4k board says 280μMol/s PPF at 108w thats ~2,59μMol/J. Not bad especially with all these resistors. With a CC layout it could be ~2,7. At least the boards are much better compared to their CRI99 strips and COBs.

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Its badass for free ya know. I really jus wanted some info on the reboost board they carry. And I asked him in email if he thought they were in close competition with Samsung. And he said well I'll just send you one to see for yourself. I emailed them yesterday evening to ask what diodes they used. And they are closed today. So hopefully they get back to me tomorrow to let me know.

whytewidow said:

Its badass for free ya know. I really jus wanted some info on the reboost board they carry. And I asked him in email if he thought they were in close competition with Samsung. And he said well I'll just send you one to see for yourself. I emailed them yesterday evening to ask what diodes they used. And they are closed today. So hopefully they get back to me tomorrow to let me know.
View attachment 4258120 View attachment 4258121

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Nice! I wish all suppliers would send free bees when recieving an email from someone interested. Seems at least your new year has started in a good way.. Yesterday someone shot a hole in my fucking door ... shitty drunken Russians..
Can already hear the rumors, lol! Russian mafia shoot my neighbors door...

I dived a bit deeper into the red boards and the name is a bit missleading cuz its not just red its a purple blue-red mix and they seem to use red phosphor based Luxeon SunPlus35 LED's with 25% blue. Compare the SPD chart in the red board test pdf with the graph in the pdf below. At 120mA you would get only 2,24μMol/J but there are 560diodes, each 7 diodes are connected in series means 80 parallel strings. 4,5amps is maximum so each diode gets ~55mA.
Half current means aound 10% better efficiency so efficiency should be up to 2,4μMol/J.
I wondered why the numbers of the red boards were so much worse than the white ones, so I tried to find out more. The problem with red phosphor coating is that blue base diodes only produce half the number of photons per watt like red diodes and the red phosphorus only converts them into red. Red diodes produce twice as much photons per watt compared to a blue diode and you would need a much better blue base diode to get the same amount of photons.

2,4μMol/J is not bad but you dont get such a nice efficiency bump like when you add top bin deepreds with much better efficiency like Osram Oslon or Cree's new XP-E'2's (coming soon).
Its more a blurple all-in-one spectrum one could also use as all-in-one light without the white boards.

I'm already curious what they say when you get an answer..