DiY LEDs - How to Power Them

whytewidow

Well-Known Member
@exoticcloud yes atleast with the one I have. I programmed it. And then put the external dimmer on it. And it did nothing. I erased the sunset/sunrise setting and back to factory specs. And the dimmer worked. The new AB type driver work with Dali interface and have the sunset/sunrise settings. And will still dim manually by external dimmer.

Edit: or if the new AB type have internal pots you could adjust it by them. I'm not sure if they have an external dimmer wires. If you look at the data sheet it will tell you.
 

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
so If I get it right, it will not work out with inventronics(you can only have one option, either programmed setting or knob), but that it will work with meanwell, I already have a feeling which MW type driver would be able to do it, but rather that I would like to ask, to be more sure. I would appreciate you sharing :)
I agree I love to learn by talking with other people, just wanted to know his experience

It was not in soil, rockwool, everything was well, but suddenly all went very quickly to death. It was some kind of lichen/fungus. I think it is related to this thread since I think it was caused by the light. Checked out the grow bible but there was no mention of covering the top rockwool. That helped second time, maybe boiling off the water would help, it happened to me both rockwool and coco.
Im wondering if anyone experienced this issue and thinks it was caused by the lighting
When there is a fungal infect its because of a too wet medium. Most of the time the lowest part of the stem is attacked, gets weaker and they just fall over over night. A too low humidity would cause chlorosis and nute burn. I would also change the location and place the seedlings in fresh air. Has the room itself issues with mold because of cold walls?
Maybe clean up the tent with bleach or H2O2 and add a bit of it to the nutrient solution to keep it pathogene free. Depending on strength up to 5ml's per galone(for instance with the 12% H2O2 stuff). A picture would have been very helpful and if it occurs again do not forget to take a shot.
 

zblade

Well-Known Member
I wanted to double check this before I actually try it.
I run 3 cxb 3590 per panel at 108volts 1.4amps or per driver.
I was thinking of running two panels with same power supply by running the panels parallel and using one driver.
I can double my coverage,but I’ll be driving each cob at 0.7amps with same voltage as before.

Would running panels parallel keep the 108volts constant and drop the current to 0.7amps to each panel?
1/1.4+1/1.4=2/1.4=1/0.7
Or each panel uses 0.7amps.
 

zblade

Well-Known Member
I wanted to double check this before I actually try it.
I run 3 cxb 3590 per panel at 108volts 1.4amps or per driver.
I was thinking of running two panels with same power supply by running the panels parallel and using one driver.
I can double my coverage,but I’ll be driving each cob at 0.7amps with same voltage as before.

Would running panels parallel keep the 108volts constant and drop the current to 0.7amps to each panel?
1/1.4+1/1.4=2/1.4=1/0.7
Or each panel uses 0.7amps.
So basically the cobs stayed wired series in each panel but I just make a Y-connector and plug in two panels to one driver.
I am almost 100% sure voltage remains constant and in this case and each panel will use 0.7amps???
Can someone double check my thinking?
I know people have driven 72volt cobs at 0.7amps but what about 36volt cobs at 0.7?
 

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
So basically the cobs stayed wired series in each panel but I just make a Y-connector and plug in two panels to one driver.
I am almost 100% sure voltage remains constant and in this case and each panel will use 0.7amps???
Can someone double check my thinking?
I know people have driven 72volt cobs at 0.7amps but what about 36volt cobs at 0.7?
Yepp, you can do it this way to split the current in half and run the COB's more efficiently. But the voltage would slightly go down to around 106v or so. If you look at the Cree CXB datasheet you need to scroll down to the volt vs. current chart.
A CXB COB using 36v at 1,4amps would only use around 35v at 700mA.
So total wattage would go down a bit because the two parallel strings need only ~105 or 106v instead of 108.

This behavior is the same for all LED's no matter if it's a COB, a strip or a single diode. When current goes down voltage also goes down! Even if you use the dimmer you reduce the current flow and therefor also the voltage. The same goes for the other direction. If you turn up the current the voltage applied also increase and to make it even more worse it's visa versa too! If you reduce the voltage the current goes down because both of them limits each other.
So lets imagine it would be possible to reduce the voltage down to 103v with this driver. Because both limits each other the current flow would go down to maybe 150mA. And if you dimm the light down to 150mA it would be the same.

And to make it even more complcated there is another limiting factor affecting the voltage; the case temperature (Tcase or Tc.) or better said the junction point temperature(Tjunction or Tj.). Higher case temps reduce forward voltage too and therefor the driver can go higher in current until the same voltage is reach than before!

The difference between 25° and 85°C means a difference in forward voltage between 12 and 14%. Flux/w or "efficiency" is reduced by the same percentage.
For this reason we always try to keep the case temps as low as possible. Keep your COB's around 55°C and you lose only 6-7% efficiency. Run them at half current and you profit twice and you'll get even better efficiency. The difference between 1,4 and 0,7A are for sure 10-15°C less Tc./Tj. which means already 2-3% better efficiency and another 6-7% better efficiency you get from running them COB's at half current.(lower voltage = better eff.)

A CXB3590 in CD bin should reach ~2,2μMol/J system efficiency at 1,4A. 10% plus means around 2,42μMol/J at 700mA.
So with 3 COB's in series you would see 108v x 1,4A that would be 151,2w x 2,2 that's 332,6μMol/s PPF.
Running them 3s2p would mean only ~106v and x 1,4A it would be 148,4w but x 2,42 that's 359,1μMol/s PPF.
So your fixture would need ~3w less and you'll get ~27μMol/s more PPF out of your fixture!
 

zblade

Well-Known Member
so If I get it right, it will not work out with inventronics(you can only have one option, either programmed setting or knob), but that it will work with meanwell, I already have a feeling which MW type driver would be able to do it, but rather that I would like to ask, to be more sure. I would appreciate you sharing :)
I agree I love to learn by talking with other people, just wanted to know his experience

It was not in soil, rockwool, everything was well, but suddenly all went very quickly to death. It was some kind of lichen/fungus. I think it is related to this thread since I think it was caused by the light. Checked out the grow bible but there was no mention of covering the top rockwool. That helped second time, maybe boiling off the water would help, it happened to me both rockwool and coco.
Im wondering if anyone experienced this issue and thinks it was caused by the lighti
so If I get it right, it will not work out with inventronics(you can only have one option, either programmed setting or knob), but that it will work with meanwell, I already have a feeling which MW type driver would be able to do it, but rather that I would like to ask, to be more sure. I would appreciate you sharing :)
I agree I love to learn by talking with other people, just wanted to know his experience

It was not in soil, rockwool, everything was well, but suddenly all went very quickly to death. It was some kind of lichen/fungus. I think it is related to this thread since I think it was caused by the light. Checked out the grow bible but there was no mention of covering the top rockwool. That helped second time, maybe boiling off the water would help, it happened to me both rockwool and coco.
Im wondering if anyone experienced this issue and thinks it was caused by the lighting
I’d recommend seedlings starter mix for seeds instead of rockwool.
You can soak seed for 5-8 hours or until they sink,put them 1/4 deep under surface in 16 ounce cups and they will come up.
Keep them in a warm place with RH 65-75% and nature will do the rest.
I’m assuming you’re new at germination and starting in rockwool can be done but seeding mix is super easy and roots like it.
Basically put seeds 1/4 deep water,put in warm high RH place under light and your done.
I don’t think germination is really needed if you
so If I get it right, it will not work out with inventronics(you can only have one option, either programmed setting or knob), but that it will work with meanwell, I already have a feeling which MW type driver would be able to do it, but rather that I would like to ask, to be more sure. I would appreciate you sharing :)
I agree I love to learn by talking with other people, just wanted to know his experience

It was not in soil, rockwool, everything was well, but suddenly all went very quickly to death. It was some kind of lichen/fungus. I think it is related to this thread since I think it was caused by the light. Checked out the grow bible but there was no mention of covering the top rockwool. That helped second time, maybe boiling off the water would help, it happened to me both rockwool and coco.
Im wondering if anyone experienced this issue and thinks it was caused by the lighting
I’d suggest getting some seedling mix at any garden center and use it for seeds.
It’s so simple using seedling mix but rockwool can have more things go wrong than a 16 ounce cup full of seedling mix,
Just germinate seeds,bury them 1/4” deep,put under light with warm temperatures and high RH and the seeds do the rest.
In 1-4 days seedlings are up and healthy.
You won’t need to water for 8-14 days if RH is 65%.
Over watering is most common mui
Yepp, you can do it this way to split the current in half and run the COB's more efficiently. But the voltage would slightly go down to around 106v or so. If you look at the Cree CXB datasheet you need to scroll down to the volt vs. current chart.
A CXB COB using 36v at 1,4amps would only use around 35v at 700mA.
So total wattage would go down a bit because the two parallel strings need only ~105 or 106v instead of 108.

This behavior is the same for all LED's no matter if it's a COB, a strip or a single diode. When current goes down voltage also goes down! Even if you use the dimmer you reduce the current flow and therefor also the voltage. The same goes for the other direction. If you turn up the current the voltage applied also increase and to make it even more worse it's visa versa too! If you reduce the voltage the current goes down because both of them limits each other.
So lets imagine it would be possible to reduce the voltage down to 103v with this driver. Because both limits each other the current flow would go down to maybe 150mA. And if you dimm the light down to 150mA it would be the same.

And to make it even more complcated there is another limiting factor affecting the voltage; the case temperature (Tcase or Tc.) or better said the junction point temperature(Tjunction or Tj.). Higher case temps reduce forward voltage too and therefor the driver can go higher in current until the same voltage is reach than before!

The difference between 25° and 85°C means a difference in forward voltage between 12 and 14%. Flux/w or "efficiency" is reduced by the same percentage.
For this reason we always try to keep the case temps as low as possible. Keep your COB's around 55°C and you lose only 6-7% efficiency. Run them at half current and you profit twice and you'll get even better efficiency. The difference between 1,4 and 0,7A are for sure 10-15°C less Tc./Tj. which means already 2-3% better efficiency and another 6-7% better efficiency you get from running them COB's at half current.(lower voltage = better eff.)

A CXB3590 in CD bin should reach ~2,2μMol/J system efficiency at 1,4A. 10% plus means around 2,42μMol/J at 700mA.
So with 3 COB's in series you would see 108v x 1,4A that would be 151,2w x 2,2 that's 332,6μMol/s PPF.
Running them 3s2p would mean only ~106v and x 1,4A it would be 148,4w but x 2,42 that's 359,1μMol/s PPF.
So your fixture would need ~3w less and you'll get ~27μMol/s more PPF out of your fixture!
Thanks,
 
Last edited:
@exoticcloud yes atleast with the one I have. I programmed it. And then put the external dimmer on it. And it did nothing. I erased the sunset/sunrise setting and back to factory specs. And the dimmer worked. The new AB type driver work with Dali interface and have the sunset/sunrise settings. And will still dim manually by external dimmer.

Edit: or if the new AB type have internal pots you could adjust it by them. I'm not sure if they have an external dimmer wires. If you look at the data sheet it will tell you.
I tried to find the new AB time but I was been only able to find this one, maybe it is it after all
MEAN WELL HLG-480H-C2100D2
Thank you for your help, having both features, would be awesome
 

zblade

Well-Known Member
I wanted to double check this before I actually try it.
I run 3 cxb 3590 per panel at 108volts 1.4amps or per driver.
I was thinking of running two panels with same power supply by running the panels parallel and using one driver.
I can double my coverage,but I’ll be driving each cob at 0.7amps with same voltage as before.

Would running panels parallel keep the 108volts constant and drop the current to 0.7amps to each panel?
1/1.4+1/1.4=2/1.4=1/0.7
Or each panel uses 0.7amps.
I like to thank randomblame for his explanation.I tried running 3s2p and not a problem.

A few more questions I have.
My drivers are MW 120H 1400C B and I use a remote dimmer.
Does driver use less electricity out of wall when cobs are dimmed?
Could I run 3s3p with one MW 120H 1400C without harming any components?
I built my system in late 2016 and I have noticed a few changes but haven’t
I wanted to double check this before I actually try it.
I run 3 cxb 3590 per panel at 108volts 1.4amps or per driver.
I was thinking of running two panels with same power supply by running the panels parallel and using one driver.
I can double my coverage,but I’ll be driving each cob at 0.7amps with same voltage as before.

Would running panels parallel keep the 108volts constant and drop the current to 0.7amps to each panel?
1/1.4+1/1.4=2/1.4=1/0.7
Or each panel uses 0.7amps.
I like to thank randomblame for his previous help.
I have just a few more questions.
Does my MW 120H 1400C B driver use less power out of wall by dimming cobs?
Id like to have a AC watt meter but I dont.
I understood runnng at 0.7amps reduces voltage/cob and I tried it out and not a problem.
What about running 3s3p with one driver?
Maybe let me ask this question,can cobs be damaged by under powering or do they just not fire?
 

music64

Well-Known Member
i am looking to get three qb96 elite v2 and was wondering if it would be better to have each one on separate drivers or all three on one. separate drivers i was thinking would allow me to better even the canopy light
 

Rocket Soul

Well-Known Member
Hi!

Does anyone have a link to digikey for resistive dimmers for B version meanwell drivers? Im interested in both controlling one driver aswell as many so i guess im asking for 100k ohm and 50k ohm. Please correct me if these values are wrong as ive only ever dealt with A-version dimming. Im not very keen on going to ebay if i can avoid it.
 

Rocket Soul

Well-Known Member
Thank you very much! Is there any difference between the more expensive and the cheaper as they are around a 10th of the price. Do they need to be powered in anyway?
I loath paying a 1/4 of the price of the driver just for a dimmer.
 

boilingoil

Well-Known Member
You don't need the expensive ones. I've used cheap e-bay pots which are like 5 for $3.00. You just have to add an inline resistor to make up the 100k ohms if the don't hit the mark.
Rapid LED has a 1-10 volt dimmer for around $6.00 if you prefer to go that route.
 

Rocket Soul

Well-Known Member
Im in europe and already ordering from digikey for the drivers. Do i get you right in that you have tried these digikey pots or just those on ebay? No worries if not, i can always double check with digikey, their fairly helpfull over chat. Thank you so much for the help, ive been looking at 20$ dimmers from my china supplier knowing that it must be cheaper than that.
 

zblade

Well-Known Member
I was hoping someone could perhaps know the answer to this question or if contacting MW might be needed.
I have a 1-10volt dimmer and my drivers are MW 120H 1400C B or dimmable.
If I dim cobs to 50% does my driver use less power out of wall or AC current?

Cobs definitely run cooler at 50% dim.
 

zblade

Well-Known Member
I was hoping someone could perhaps know the answer to this question or if contacting MW might be needed.
I have a 1-10volt dimmer and my drivers are MW 120H 1400C B or dimmable.
If I dim cobs to 50% does my driver use less power out of wall or AC current?

Cobs definitely run cooler at 50% dim.
I measured the tempature of my cobs running at 50-51watts and they measure 40 degrees C at cob and about 45 degrees C out of heat sink pins.
I went a bit bigger on heat sinks and they appear to be cooling very nicely .
Is that considered good by Cree specs?
 

Rocket Soul

Well-Known Member
I measured the tempature of my cobs running at 50-51watts and they measure 40 degrees C at cob and about 45 degrees C out of heat sink pins.
I went a bit bigger on heat sinks and they appear to be cooling very nicely .
Is that considered good by Cree specs?
Youd Youd have a hard time getting that much lower. They are rated at 85C.
 

pan2707

Well-Known Member
hi, anyone know if i could put 2 clu048 1212s with 2 samsung HinFlux Lm301b on the same driver and if so what driver
 
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