Diagnose this leaf issue, wrinkly and a bit of tacoing?!

S

Smokenpassout

Well-Known Member
Just curious what this girl is slightly suffering from? She looks nice and green. noticed this in the past couple days. She’s been on a light nutrient dose of under 1/4 strength and about 30 days old. She’s a little strtetchy so I brought her height down a bit by taking off her base. Could it be the light intensity stress? She is small only 5 nodes, so I have the LED 24” over her at the 40% suggested.
 

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Delps8 said:
Good question.

And wind speed-fans blowing on the plant might be causing the leaves to curl.
Click to expand...
Could be wind, I have my lower oscillating fan set to 3 of 10 and giving the plants indirect movement for 18 hours a day along with light. I could kick it down to super gentle at 1 or 2 .
 
Looks like heat stress. I had heard that the new aci leds had hot spots. Can't remember where I read that, so don't fact check me. Maybe check the leaf temperature to see where you are at... or just let her roll, she looks fine.
 
Smokenpassout said:
No , Id call this one the runt of the group. Different strain than the other three which are 3X the size in 30 days. others are nice and short and bushy. This one is healthy yet tall and lanky.
Click to expand...
If this is the only plant doing it then make sure something in the environment isn’t directly hitting it (fan, humidifier fog..)

Other than that I wouldn’t worry about it and bet it grows out of it. Nice and green
 
Syntax747 said:
Looks like heat stress. I had heard that the new aci leds had hot spots. Can't remember where I read that, so don't fact check me. Maybe check the leaf temperature to see where you are at... or just let her roll, she looks fine.
Click to expand...

"hot spot" as in temperature?

I've written about the "hot spot" in terms of the PPFD map but LED's generate so little heat that I'd be surprised that anyone even measures temperature.
 
Smokenpassout said:
The led light is an AC Infinity Evo 4. Full Spectrum led, 3X3 space.
Click to expand...
The plant it the picture isn't suffering from too much light. Overall, your plants are getting about 400µmol which is right in the middle of the "legacy light levels" of 300, 300-600, and 600+ for seedling, veg, and flower.

That's an estimate of PPFD because I can't find a PPFD map for that light at 24" hang height. 24" is very high for an LED grow light. I've had trouble finding hang height recommendations for AC Infinity light so I resorted to chatGPT to search. The graphics below are what it retrieved.


1749062246648.png

1749062286342.png

This is the PPFD map from the AC Infnity site:

1749062342985.png


In a word, these recommendations are bullshit.

Putting 1350*0.4=540µmol on a seedling is a good way to ensure that it never gets to the vegetative state, even if you're running CO2. The other recommendations 80% at 18" for veg (1080µmol) and 100% at 18" in flower (1350) would be on the high end for CO2. I have no idea why AC Infinity would recommend this much light and I am very aggressive in terms of ramping up PPFD.

What's interesting about the plant in question is the lack of nodes/the huge internodal space. It looks like it's just now sprouting the fourth node which is about 7-10 days later than I would have expected (my knowledge about soil growing is limited because I grow in hydro).

Per the posting by @Syntax747 and my reply, the EVO 4 has a "hot spot" in the center. That's something to take into account over the course of the grow but I'm wondering if the "problem plant", whom I dub "Stretch", was perhaps shunted off to the side and just not getting a lot of light. Could that be the issue?

Stretch has great color and really well formed leaves so unless she's been treated in a significantly different manner than her tent mates, I'd see it as an issue of genetics.
 
Last edited:
Delps8 said:
The plant it the picture isn't suffering from too much light. Overall, your plants are getting about 400µmol which is right in the middle of the "legacy light levels" of 300, 300-600, and 600+ for seedling, veg, and flower.

That's an estimate of PPFD because I can't find a PPFD map for that light at 24" hang height. 24" is very high for an LED grow light. I've had trouble finding hang height recommendations for AC Infinity light so I resorted to chatGPT to search. The graphics below are what it retrieved.


View attachment 5468011

View attachment 5468012

This is the PPFD map from the AC Infnity site:

View attachment 5468013


In a word, these recommendations are bullshit.

Putting 1350*0.4=540µmol on a seedling is a good way to ensure that it never gets to the vegetative state, even if you're running CO2. The other recommendations 80% at 18" for veg (1080µmol) and 100% at 18" in flower (1350) would be on the high end for CO2. I have no idea why AC Infinity would recommend this much light and I am very aggressive in terms of ramping up PPFD.

What's interesting about the plant in question is the lack of nodes/the huge internodal space. It looks like it's just now sprouting the fourth node which is about 7-10 days later than I would have expected (my knowledge about soil growing is limited because I grow in hydro).

Per the posting by @Syntax747 and my reply, the EVO 4 has a "hot spot" in the center. That's something to take into account over the course of the grow but I'm wondering if the "problem plant", whom I dub "Stretch", was perhaps shunted off to the side and just not getting a lot of light. Could that be the issue?

Stretch has great color and really well formed leaves so unless she's been treated in a significantly different manner than her tent mates, I'd see it as an issue of genetics.
Click to expand...
 
Delps8 said:
The plant it the picture isn't suffering from too much light. Overall, your plants are getting about 400µmol which is right in the middle of the "legacy light levels" of 300, 300-600, and 600+ for seedling, veg, and flower.

That's an estimate of PPFD because I can't find a PPFD map for that light at 24" hang height. 24" is very high for an LED grow light. I've had trouble finding hang height recommendations for AC Infinity light so I resorted to chatGPT to search. The graphics below are what it retrieved.


View attachment 5468011

View attachment 5468012

This is the PPFD map from the AC Infnity site:

View attachment 5468013

Thank you for your detailed reply. I got a lot of good information. Per what you said I may need to lower the light to the suggested 1.5 ft and keep it at the same 40%. I have it at 24” as Im always on the side of caution with light stress and powerful led’s. however 40% may be better down a bit to 18” instead of 24. only problem ise
Click to expand...

Delps8 said:
In a word, these recommendations are bullshit.

Putting 1350*0.4=540µmol on a seedling is a good way to ensure that it never gets to the vegetative state, even if you're running CO2. The other recommendations 80% at 18" for veg (1080µmol) and 100% at 18" in flower (1350) would be on the high end for CO2. I have no idea why AC Infinity would recommend this much light and I am very aggressive in terms of ramping up PPFD.

What's interesting about the plant in question is the lack of nodes/the huge internodal space. It looks like it's just now sprouting the fourth node which is about 7-10 days later than I would have expected (my knowledge about soil growing is limited because I grow in hydro).

Per the posting by @Syntax747 and my reply, the EVO 4 has a "hot spot" in the center. That's something to take into account over the course of the grow but I'm wondering if the "problem plant", whom I dub "Stretch", was perhaps shunted off to the side and just not getting a lot of light. Could that be the issue?

Stretch has great color and really well formed leaves so unless she's been treated in a significantly different manner than her tent mates, I'd see it as an issue of genetics.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for your detailed response. I got a lot of good information from it! I have been on the side of over caution with PPFD at 2ft above tops. Mainly because I fear light stress with powerful Led light! However, I also fear stretchy girls, and like them short and compact until stretch. I realize light needs to be lowered as close to plants tolerance as possible. Do you suggest lowering it from 24” to 18” and keeping intensity at 40% and observe growth? That would bump up the PPFD. I dont have a way to test PPFD accuratley and the phone apps ask for a filter to be accurate. I have yet to find a decent app to measure light at the canopy without an external filter contraption. I really dont have the. $150-$200 to invest in a nice dedicated meter at the moment. Hence, the extra height of 24” and power setting.

I do think stretch is strain specific. Others are same strain and all looking identical short bushy, growing more outward than upward like stretch. Now I just have to figure how to get stretch down to same height as rest of canopy that Im measuring the light height from. Perhaps I can fix that will the trellice I will add soon. Cheers!
 
If you give a cannabis plant too much light, it will let you know. When I increase light levels, I'll turn up the dimmer a bit and then check the plant 30 minutes later. If the leaves are curling, I'll turn the dimmer back down or raise the light an inch or two. If everything's looking good, I'll do another check in another half hour.

I routinely give my plants a little too much light in mid-veg and it's no big deal. I just drop the dimmer setting and wait a day. I'm also getting my plants to 1000µmol± by the end of week 5 so it's almost inevitable that I'll feed them a little too much.

LED's do not get hot enough to cause problems the way HPS does. A lot of the conventional wisdom re. lighting is based on CMH and HPS lights. HPS generates a lot heat and that's why growers would use the back of the hand test. That's completely irrelevant with LED's and using that test can lead to problems because LED's put out lotsa light but "no" heat.

From my most recent grow.

Check the grow journal entry at 0941. The plants were 22 days above ground. At 1006 PPFD was 470. I bumped it to 607 at 1447. Check the entry at 8:46PM.

Next day, day 23, the plants grew noticeably (I run 24/0) and I upped PPFD to 698. 40 minutes later, 0941, oops. Back off a bit and they were happy.



1749171562401.png

Edges were starting to curl.
1749171341791.jpeg

1749172141972.png

There should be colas on the left side of Donna but I f'd up and broke two of her branches so I figure I lost maybe a couple of ounces. :-(
1749172181643.jpeg
 
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