DEFOLIATION . . . . a hands on approach!

skunkd0c said:

this plant had some leaves removed throughout its growth 5 weeks veg under MH
and 8 weeks flower under hps it is a vigorous skunk/sativa dominated phenotype that has a large stretch during flower
yield was 28 oz the plant was 4.5 feet tall 3.5 feet deep and 5 ft wide

the leaf removal is for my piece of mind i would not claim that it improved the yield
also i attempt to keep as many leaves on the plant as i can handle looking at
overall i did not remove as many leaves as i would from some phenos as they are naturally more leafy to start with

i do not like having colas or the middle of a plant in any kind of shade, i will remove lower growth leaves and branches
to allow the light to fall more evenly over the canopy hitting as much surface area of green as possible

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peace

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you have done a amazing job with the canopy, you controlled the stretch really well and kept the canopy level

one of the best plants I have grown has been this one, not the most healthy plant but the yield was high










the plant was just under 3ft across
and there was other plants under the 600w hps

ZOOM IN FOR FULL EFFECT Feugo Freebie from DNA
Hashbar #7from Archive I have a few keepers but this is the newest untested till 2hours ago and it 1hitter greatness with no cure yet.
Fuego getting the Chop Tonight! 1gal FFOF biobizz

Fuego
Last Feugo pic from my single.
Raspberry Cookies from G.A.S 4wks1st pheno tester small clone and it seems to be a keeper although its the only 1 I got... LOL out of 5reg beans but Im so thankful to have it showing trichomes finally I had to show somebody thats why you see it.

Defoliation at its finest..
Super chunks.. 6 per light 7 gallon containers day 57 Sage n Sour and Ultra Sour.

This is a Sage n Sour.. Proly 7-8 ounce plant!! Nuttin but Chunkers

I took down 1 light which was the Fruity Chronic Juice 3 plants and 3 plants of Ultra Sour its in the dry room now. 70F and 50%RH cut down day 55.

Ill have some final weighs in, in a few days to see how the ladies came out!! Stay tuned.

I'm gonna be taking these other 6 down in the next few days need another week or so before I have the updates and final weigh in on that and compare the heavily defoliated ultra sours vs the ones left untouched.

I think from what I see so far the smaller plants which werent defoliated will produce around 4-5 ounces a piece. Which is the first light I cut down and I am figuring I will be getting a final dry weight of about 1.75 lbs off that 1000w.

The 6 I have left (previous post) which I am figuring should harvest about 2 1/4-2.5 lbs. If they average low end of 6 ounces per plant (which should be easily achieved, that will be 2 1/4 lbs).. But some will be more around the 8 ounce mark. I have 2 that I used as my testers which were heavily defoliated and stripped on day 42 which is pictured in the above post. These have my largest colas which have about 16 top colas on each plant. Even if each cola only weighs a minimum of 14 grams each (I think they are more around an 20 grams per cola, possibly more) than that should give me 2 plants that will produce 8 ounces. So on average 6 ounces x 6 plants = 36 ounces + 4 ounces for the additional larger 2 plants will give me right around 2.5 lbs , on the main 1000w light.

I'll put up some pics and updates over the next few days and see how they compare. Oooh yeah.. Premium Meds super pumped.

Cannabil said:

I took down 1 light which was the Fruity Chronic Juice 3 plants and 3 plants of Ultra Sour its in the dry room now. 70F and 50%RH cut down day 55.

Ill have some final weighs in, in a few days to see how the ladies came out!! Stay tuned.

I'm gonna be taking these other 6 down in the next few days need another week or so before I have the updates and final weigh in on that and compare the heavily defoliated ultra sours vs the ones left untouched.

I think from what I see so far the smaller plants which werent defoliated will produce around 4-5 ounces a piece. Which is the first light I cut down and I am figuring I will be getting a final dry weight of about 1.75 lbs off that 1000w.

The 6 I have left (previous post) which I am figuring should harvest about 2 1/4-2.5 lbs. If they average low end of 6 ounces per plant (which should be easily achieved, that will be 2 1/4 lbs).. But some will be more around the 8 ounce mark. I have 2 that I used as my testers which were heavily defoliated and stripped on day 42 which is pictured in the above post. These have my largest colas which have about 16 top colas on each plant. Even if each cola only weighs a minimum of 14 grams each (I think they are more around an 20 grams per cola, possibly more) than that should give me 2 plants that will produce 8 ounces. So on average 6 ounces x 6 plants = 36 ounces + 4 ounces for the additional larger 2 plants will give me right around 2.5 lbs , on the main 1000w light.

I'll put up some pics and updates over the next few days and see how they compare. Oooh yeah.. Premium Meds super pumped.

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wow that's amazing and proof that defoliation works

Genetics and nutrients are a big part also.

Really tired of people on here claiming they are guru's and cannabis experts and say that nutrients are all the same.
THEY ARE NOT!!

There is no substitute for quality nutrients. You pay for what you get! To start there are 4 different levels of nutrients and how they are mad and graded. Its almost like saying all paint is paint. No its not. There are far superior paints than others. This is because of what they are made from and how they work and are applied.

You start with good genetics and provide a good environment. You feed your plants quality nutrients not cheap bullshit, and you use and implement growing techniques such as pruning, defoliation etc.. And you will get good results.

I find on this forum particularly that people think "making your own nutrients" or using cheap lab made salts will out perform quality nutrients and it is just simply bullshit.

Cannabil said:

Genetics and nutrients are a big part also.

Really tired of people on here claiming they are guru's and cannabis experts and say that nutrients are all the same.
THEY ARE NOT!!

There is no substitute for quality nutrients. You pay for what you get! To start there are 4 different levels of nutrients and how they are mad and graded. Its almost like saying all paint is paint. No its not. There are far superior paints than others. This is because of what they are made from and how they work and are applied.

You start with good genetics and provide a good environment. You feed your plants quality nutrients not cheap bullshit, and you use and implement growing techniques such as pruning, defoliation etc.. And you will get good results.

I find on this forum particularly that people think "making your own nutrients" or using cheap lab made salts will out perform quality nutrients and it is just simply bullshit.

Click to expand...

plants only need high amount of NPK (different ratios at different stages veg/flower), low amount of secondly nutes( cal and mag) and then very low amount of trace nutes, stuff like iron, zink ect

if you use tap water it will often have enough secondly nutes, trace nutes but the ratio of nutes will be different in every town, country

I have to add Epson salt in early flower as my tap water low on mag, your maybe low on cal

every bag of soil has different ratio of nutes and higher amount of soil in a pot will last plants longer

I have grown cannabis with tap water + nutes at an ec of 1.6 on one crop and the next crop an ec of 1 it made no difference

every strain/plant needs a different ratio of nutes at a different strengts at diffent times in veg and flower.

different size plants need different ratio of nutes

Its just impossible to get the perfect nutes for your plants at loads of different stages in flower but you can give the plants the basic grow and bloom nutes they need and the roots will use it when there ready

Cannabil said:

Defoliation at its finest..
Super chunks.. 6 per light 7 gallon containers day 57 Sage n Sour and Ultra Sour.

This is a Sage n Sour.. Proly 7-8 ounce plant!! Nuttin but Chunkers

View attachment 3483460 View attachment 3483461 View attachment 3483462 View attachment 3483464

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Man your getting amazing resultsare you using C02 or fresh air. I would imagine fresh air @70F wouldn't be working efficiently with Co2 well. I try and shoot for the smaller size quicker harvest every month instead of a few big yields a year. I have allready harvested 2 times figuring out my phenotypes alot faster do decide which ones I would keep going with. I know that is a very nice set up you made there and The Advanced Nutrients does a great job I like the Karma and Sweet coupled in with my Biobizz bases and the biobizz additives. Certain strains do not seem to like the defoliation as much as others and its an art to taking just enough leaf to allow light to specifically selected branches that are shaded. I dont defoliate all at once or it shocks the plant also, It needs leaves to produce photosynthesis so a certain amount left is good to continue its hardy growth for most strains. Although some strains have enough secondary leaves to manage good photosynthesis without any fan leaves and thats up to you as the grower to experiment with your phenos. I can say Og's usually dont like to be defoliated View attachment 3483657 until you perfect it. Growing is not easy but it sure is fun. These you see her are my HashBar OG pheno #6 which has some haze in there somewhere and I vegged that one for 45 days in 2gal pots and I got 2.5oz of great nug but its not a chunky strain its OG and its well known but this was my first harvest with this strain I didn't buy clones I do have a chunky Grizzly purp K 1gal 2wk veg that I did defoliate lightly to experiment I know the leaves look a little rough I chop some just in 1/2 and some got ripped pulling them out of the trellis and I have a chunkier HashBar #3 1gal 2wk veg it seems Afghan dom but its not my favorite.

What was your veg time before 12-12?

Cannabil said:

I took down 1 light which was the Fruity Chronic Juice 3 plants and 3 plants of Ultra Sour its in the dry room now. 70F and 50%RH cut down day 55.

Ill have some final weighs in, in a few days to see how the ladies came out!! Stay tuned.

I'm gonna be taking these other 6 down in the next few days need another week or so before I have the updates and final weigh in on that and compare the heavily defoliated ultra sours vs the ones left untouched.

I think from what I see so far the smaller plants which werent defoliated will produce around 4-5 ounces a piece. Which is the first light I cut down and I am figuring I will be getting a final dry weight of about 1.75 lbs off that 1000w.

The 6 I have left (previous post) which I am figuring should harvest about 2 1/4-2.5 lbs. If they average low end of 6 ounces per plant (which should be easily achieved, that will be 2 1/4 lbs).. But some will be more around the 8 ounce mark. I have 2 that I used as my testers which were heavily defoliated and stripped on day 42 which is pictured in the above post. These have my largest colas which have about 16 top colas on each plant. Even if each cola only weighs a minimum of 14 grams each (I think they are more around an 20 grams per cola, possibly more) than that should give me 2 plants that will produce 8 ounces. So on average 6 ounces x 6 plants = 36 ounces + 4 ounces for the additional larger 2 plants will give me right around 2.5 lbs , on the main 1000w light.

I'll put up some pics and updates over the next few days and see how they compare. Oooh yeah.. Premium Meds super pumped.

Click to expand...

jacksthc said:

plants only need high amount of NPK (different ratios at different stages veg/flower), low amount of secondly nutes( cal and mag) and then very low amount of trace nutes, stuff like iron, zink ect

if you use tap water it will often have enough secondly nutes, trace nutes but the ratio of nutes will be different in every town, country

I have to add Epson salt in early flower as my tap water low on mag, your maybe low on cal

every bag of soil has different ratio of nutes and higher amount of soil in a pot will last plants longer

I have grown cannabis with tap water + nutes at an ec of 1.6 on one crop and the next crop an ec of 1 it made no difference

every strain/plant needs a different ratio of nutes at a different strengts at diffent times in veg and flower.

different size plants need different ratio of nutes

Its just impossible to get the perfect nutes for your plants at loads of different stages in flower but you can give the plants the basic grow and bloom nutes they need and the roots will use it when there ready

Click to expand...

First I use only R/O water. I will never use well or tap. None of the calcium and magnesium is in the form you really want to give your plants anyways. Especially tap water including all kinds of other shit in the water as well which you dont want in there either.

I run cal-mag all of veg and double dose end of veg and early flowering and stop all cal-mag week 5. You dont need it after that point. Should be plenty and abundant by then.

Shastafarian said:

What was your veg time before 12-12?

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6 weeks of veg from seed.

This run is gonna be all from cuts so I will only need to veg for maybe 4 weeks before I turn them over.

The sour strains I ran this time needed 10 ml cal-mag and I had to add Humboldt Verde @1-2 ml per gallon on top of feed schedule in last 2 weeks of veg and first 3 weeks of bloom. The sour varieties just demanded higher levels of nitrogen-ca-mg and the cal-mag itself just wasnt doing it.

I never exceed 1200 ppm anytime during bloom. I do a feed feed water schedule. With 20% run off usually. Less is more. The Fruity Chronic Juice was alot more finicky about nutrients I only fed them once per week at no more than 1000 ppm and they didnt need any additional cal mag at all.

So i had to make separate batches of nutrients to feed all of them every watering but they went good for first time. My next run will be better since I know what they want now.

Cannabil said:

First I use only R/O water. I will never use well or tap. None of the calcium and magnesium is in the form you really want to give your plants anyways. Especially tap water including all kinds of other shit in the water as well which you dont want in there either.

I run cal-mag all of veg and double dose end of veg and early flowering and stop all cal-mag week 5. You dont need it after that point. Should be plenty and abundant by then.

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yeh alway all wanted a ro system as they do put a lot crap in tap water

cal-mag is good often use it my self in flower

does your ro system cost much to set up and run ? ( filters)

Shastafarian said:

Man your getting amazing resultsare you using C02 or fresh air. I would imagine fresh air @70F wouldn't be working efficiently with Co2 well. I try and shoot for the smaller size quicker harvest every month instead of a few big yields a year. I have allready harvested 2 times figuring out my phenotypes alot faster do decide which ones I would keep going with. I know that is a very nice set up you made there and The Advanced Nutrients does a great job I like the Karma and Sweet coupled in with my Biobizz bases and the biobizz additives. Certain strains do not seem to like the defoliation as much as others and its an art to taking just enough leaf to allow light to specifically selected branches that are shaded. I dont defoliate all at once or it shocks the plant also, It needs leaves to produce photosynthesis so a certain amount left is good to continue its hardy growth for most strains. Although some strains have enough secondary leaves to manage good photosynthesis without any fan leaves and thats up to you as the grower to experiment with your phenos. I can say Og's usually dont like to be defoliatedView attachment 3483669 View attachment 3483655 View attachment 3483668 View attachment 3483657 until you perfect it. Growing is not easy but it sure is fun. These you see her are my HashBar OG pheno #6 which has some haze in there somewhere and I vegged that one for 45 days in 2gal pots and I got 2.5oz of great nug but its not a chunky strain its OG and its well known but this was my first harvest with this strain I didn't buy clones I do have a chunky Grizzly purp K 1gal 2wk veg that I did defoliate lightly to experiment I know the leaves look a little rough I chop some just in 1/2 and some got ripped pulling them out of the trellis View attachment 3483673 and I have a chunkier HashBar #3 1gal 2wk veg View attachment 3483675View attachment 3483676 it seems Afghan dom but its not my favorite.

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OG Kush loves defoliation. Any Kush strain will benefit immensely from fan leaf removal. You lollipop the bottom removin 1/3 and strip everything but the top 3 nodes on thr main shoots a week before flowering and follow that up by completely stripping down all fan leaves on day 42 and watch how big your OG Kush colas will be. I guarantee you add 20% final yield to any plant that wasnt lollipopped and defoliated. I bet everything I own on that!!

10-4

Cannabil said:

OG Kush loves defoliation. Any Ku in sh strain will benefit immensely from fan leaf removal. You lollipop the bottom removin 1/3 and strip everything but the top 3 nodes on thr main shoots a week before flowering and follow that up by completely stripping down all fan leaves on day 42 and watch how big your OG Kush colas will be. I guarantee you add 20% final yield to any plant that wasnt lollipopped and defoliated. I bet everything I own on that!!

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if you want to become the best grower as well as get the best possible results stay the hell away from leaf removal..
Think about it for a second plants have evolved for some time now would you think that the plant would naturally drop its leafs so it could create more seeds ???? and do plants drop there leafs no
The truth is only thing you are doing by removal of leafs is choking out the plant and fucking up everything
how do plants breath ??? up take c02 ??? by removing the leafs c02 uptake is diminished, transpiration , respiration is all fucked up growth slows down and possible hermie triats begin with the stress
there has been 100's of side by sides down unbiased and it proves that untouched plant as in leafs performed better with better yields end of story
Now prunning is a different story shaping and or getting rid of lower bud sites will of course benefit you and yield as plant is not using its energy on lower larf buds cause think of it this way your light is 24" above the plant tops as light goes lower it loses its strength so no matter how you take it them lower bud sites 48 " from the light is going to be shit and shake when dried ...
now if we are to play by mother natures rules then by all means remove 5 - 10 percent of the mass as it would of been damaged by insects which is small removal compared to what some on here are doing and that is raping the plant
Now i truly do not care what you do to your plant ,, but for the life of me its proven that training lower pruning and having as many bud sites near the light source will give you good yields
And for gods sakes keep it as healthy as possible from start to finish this means having leafs so it can store sugars n starches let alone photosynthesis

here some pics of my plant defoliation in early flower






[/ATTACH]

jacksthc said:

you have done a amazing job with the canopy, you controlled the stretch really well and kept the canopy level

one of the best plants I have grown has been this one, not the most healthy plant but the yield was high

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the plant was just under 3ft across
and there was other plants under the 600w hps

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and this plant defoliation in early flower

Darth Vapour said:

if you want to become the best grower as well as get the best possible results stay the hell away from leaf removal..
Think about it for a second plants have evolved for some time now would you think that the plant would naturally drop its leafs so it could create more seeds ???? and do plants drop there leafs no
The truth is only thing you are doing by removal of leafs is choking out the plant and fucking up everything
how do plants breath ??? up take c02 ??? by removing the leafs c02 uptake is diminished, transpiration , respiration is all fucked up growth slows down and possible hermie triats begin with the stress
there has been 100's of side by sides down unbiased and it proves that untouched plant as in leafs performed better with better yields end of story
Now prunning is a different story shaping and or getting rid of lower bud sites will of course benefit you and yield as plant is not using its energy on lower larf buds cause think of it this way your light is 24" above the plant tops as light goes lower it loses its strength so no matter how you take it them lower bud sites 48 " from the light is going to be shit and shake when dried ...
now if we are to play by mother natures rules then by all means remove 5 - 10 percent of the mass as it would of been damaged by insects which is small removal compared to what some on here are doing and that is raping the plant
Now i truly do not care what you do to your plant ,, but for the life of me its proven that training lower pruning and having as many bud sites near the light source will give you good yields
And for gods sakes keep it as healthy as possible from start to finish this means having leafs so it can store sugars n starches let alone photosynthesisView attachment 3485171

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Thats actually a huge misconception and not true at all.

Indoor marijuana plants are given perfect growing environments and abundant nutrient resources. Primarily using products such as kelps and soluble seaweeds including many other things that promote excessive foliage and shoot growth.

Indoor plants are not affected by bugs, insects, animal and weather issues which plague outdoor crops. Cannabis plants have natural ability to continue to grow after leaf loss and thrive perfectly fine outdoor when losing a good majority of their leaves from natural causes. Since you do not have these issues indoors you are left with heavily foliated plant with abundant leaves and shoots to promote root growth. Once flowering comes the use of all of those fan leaves isnt needed as it was during veg. The plants are now focusing on developing buds and flowers not root growth after the 2/3 week of bloom.

Removing these leaves convert usable energy back into bud growth instead of keeping the leaves and useless under brush alive. Thats why you benefit from removing it when grown indoors. The problem with people have bad results and mislead information results in subpar grows and sacrificed yields because of mis applying the techniques and incorrectly using them at both the wrong time and to the wrong plants.

Both selective leaf removal, and defoliation/shoot stripping etc.. Need to be applie properly and only in growing conditions favorable for using that tehcnique to serve a purpose. You cant strip a plant that isnt heavily foliated and untopped thats already growing lanky and tall with little to no leaves to begin with. Defoliation and lollipopping is for huge plants that have been topped and are massive and abundant with foliage. The purpose is to make all available light useful and to eradicate or limit the potential for molds/fungus problem to develop in your garden.

I think many people who use defoliation and have shit results is because misapplication. And bad information much like what you stated in your post. Yes plant grow abundant leaves and shoots, but it doesnt need all of them during flowering. It used them to grow massive root systems which is what will carry your plant thru bloom even after you strip shoots and leaves from the plant. When done correctly it has 0 negative effects on your plant health or yields. And will infact grow larger flowers and bigger buds. This is a fact. I posted several huge plants that are lollipopped 1/3 of way up and stripped down 3 times during bloom.

I just finished drying up the first of 2 lights I did the first one is done and curing. I got 29.5 ounces off of 6 plants which were all grown 1 week less of veg and only in 5 gallon containers. The final larger 6 plants which got 6 weeks of veg were grown in the larger 7 gallons containers (which I transplanted 2-3rd week of bloom out of the 5 gallons). These should leave me with a final yield of 2.5 lbs off that final one 1000w light. If I didnt defoliate and strip them down the way I did I would have never gotten these results. I would have been left with tons of fluffy popcorn garbage on the bottoms which I have less then 2 ounces of from 12 plants. It grew nothing but huge dense tops because I used that technique of defoliation to focus all energy on the upper canopy and stripped all fan leaves at day 42 which grew rock hard chunkers 18"-24" colas as I showed in previous posts and multiple threads.

Defoliation works hands down but you need to apply it correctly and now when, why and how. Otherwise you will ruin your girls and make posts about how you lost your yield. Thats because of user error.

lol ok there dude thats not bad 29.5 oz holy crap when i break it down my 6 plants i got 3.875 pounds indoor that comes out to what for 6 plants 60 0z almost 61 dry oz . no defoilating only cleaned under canopy vegged 5 weeks 34 gallon totes some people have seen my cola's comparing them to 5 gallon pails just saying we can sit here and go back n forth to me it doesn't matter i really do not care if you skin your plant it will with out a doubt effect many functions that the plant does like Breathing taking in c02 more leafs more stomata 's this has been done numerious times by very good growers and no matter what buds 48 " away from the light source if you skinned your plant will be larf no matter how you shake it right